Content should be challenging to execute... Not challenging to learn

Also, we didn't watch a guide for the most part.

If you dont want to use your brain while figuring out mechanics go play a twitch based game then.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

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Alexander Normal is also easier then Coil, the people who cleared it quickly also probably have cleared Coil multiple times, and pretty much are better then most of the player base. Meanwhile there are people who are stuck on the first floor not able to do certain mechanics correctly.

Alexander Savage will be the challenge for even the coil people, so long as the devs have been truthful/are right about player skill levels. And even then expect atleast one group to beat it in less time then they thought.

Also at times the challenge isn't the mechanics themselves so much as having to pay attention to multiple ones at once. Those DKs are so easy...but you let yourself tunnel vision just a little on dps, or healing or dodging that one AoE, you just might miss it.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

Well apparently there are some people that doesn't think so... guess hitting those dragon killers and not having to worry about anything else other than DPS hard is much better challenge than to properly place meteors/earthshakers so you don't kill your party. Or healing through Flatten/Flare breaths with add that hits just as hard and to deal with the randomness of mega flare at the same time. No video or written guide is going to give you a free pass to clear these - you need to actually experience them. Which alot of people are criticizing it is too easy/scripted without ever doing them.

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Exactly. Fights like T13 demand that every single player in the party be on their A game: tanks need to know when to use cooldowns, healers need to time heals to coincide with all of the damage going out, and DPS need to know how to squeeze out every possible bit of DPS while also handling mechanics properly. Just watching a video isn't going to teach you how to do that-- the only thing that will is experience with the fight.

And, when you get right down to it? The mechanics of T13 are actually quite simple to learn. The trick is getting everyone to execute them properly and not having people standing on the butt when Megaflare goes out or putting both Earthshakers on the same side because someone wasn't paying attention.

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Originally Posted by Outfoxed

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This game is too hard for you? Don't play it, go play other games that are more suitable to your skill levels. All games is all about memorization. It is called games....

Most raid mechanics are self taught by playing, in every single case. Take T10 for example. Imdugud doesn't start the fight with Tether-Charge, does he? He does Charge first part of the fight, then HL second part of the fight. Then, once you get good and used to those, he starts mixing them together. So SE rarely throws mechanics at you unfairly, there's always a gradual buildup.

The thing is, marks should be streamlined in my opinion. When you enter a new fight for the first time and get a mark, it could be ANYTHING. You don't know if something is gonna drop on your head, if something is gonna divebomb you, if it's an aoe bomb that need to be soaked by everyone, etc. They should start streamlining mark colors/shapes so that ALL RED MARKS = X, ALL GREEN MARKS=Y, ALL METEOR MARKS=Z.

Some mechanics gice you no clue or hint and it's a bit unfair I think. In other MMO's they at least give you a hint or a chance to avoid things, without having to have the world's first few raid groups wipe a dozen times to learn how mechanics work so the rest of the community can profit. When Ravana does Liberation and it splits 40,000 damage amongst your party, you have NO idea that's coming when the white mark appears. You just see a white mark, and bam everyone dies, then you have to restart from scratch. It doesn't make the game 'easier' if Ravana were to say something in dialogue that clued you in on what to do.


It doesn't make the first few groups to clear without videos 'pros' because they wiped a dozen times to uncover the properties of every mechanic, it's just a time sink. One thing FFXI had that made fights a bit more interesting was that abilites were random. 99% of 2.0 raids were telegraphed, scripted battles. Bosses went through predictable phases with predicable attack orders and would cycle through their abilities in order, every single time. In FFXI you had to think on your feet and adapt when a boss used their most obnoxiously powerfully unavoidable move 3x in a row. I think that needs to be incorporated a bit more in FFXIV. Ravana's liberations are randomized after 50% or so and Bismarck's weathers are randomized, but most fights still follow scripted formats. It's 1...2..3.. JUMP!.....1....2....3 RUN. Just very predictable mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

Not to mention I see it as a consideration when people brush up and research on whatever they're going into. It saves time.

At least I do it since I don't want to stress us out by going in blind and learning by a wipe that we shouldn't do x.

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But it's fine if the other 7 are wanting to go in blind and learn by trial and error, everyone is on the same page then :) Hence the ability to make parties to suit with party finder.

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Originally Posted by Outfoxed

feeding your neopets on meteors.... I mean seriously, how would I know that golems like eating meteors? And why on Earth would I want to feed a golem a meteor when he just gets bigger and stronger?

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This is a terrible example. This should have taken exactly 3 runs to figure out.

Run 1. "Oh shit they eat meteors if they get close keep them away!!" meteors left explode..
Run 2. "hrm well we can't have any meteors left when it ends or we lose so guess we have to eat them" a golem eats too many and grows. wipes group
Run 3. "Ok guess we have to divide them up"

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I would think it would be easy, but the steep DPS check and missing even once on the DK in Phase 3 which summons more adds... I've been getting wipes on that mostly on Phase 2 and Phase 3 a few times. We did manage to get it to 14% but the island got destroyed before we could finish the boss.

Even with a PF for ilvl170+ players and no MCH & BRD before 3.01 I would think we would've licked it by now. It seems Malboro has its shares of players having a rough time with endgame content... a lot.

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That's the problem with people pulling 400-500dps on i180s and people using their cooldowns on the wrong periods. :D Having terrible dps=/=hard fight.

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Originally Posted by Outfoxed

. You dont need skill to fight most bosses in this game. You just need to know how to memorize things.

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Did you ever play the unnerfed coils? For example in t13 you could pull all the MECHANICS correctly, but the vast majority of the players still failed hard on the dps-side. I think new vs. old content is a question about knowing your class AND the fight vs. knowing the fight well. Then again, old content shouldn't really be overly hard anyways.

T10 was a good fight. All the phases were a continuation of the other with an added new mechanic and randomness into it. The last phase is basically the first phase + heat lightning + tether tornado. The mechanics could variate in the last phase, had to be pulled correctly and the people getting to do them were chosen randomly. Not only did it have progressive learning atop the previous phases, it required some quick reaction to the changing mechanics in the last phase.