The Next Set of "Relic Weapons" in Heavensward

Guys please this is just a game, dont try to find a logic reason of why we are killing mobs...

We are really going over the edge with this.

If you accept the world for the way it is, accept the way things "have to be," you'll never be able to change it.

</deepthoughts>

Well it's not that hard; we kill mobs because we're told we'll get something for it, and it's just a game so there's only positive consequences to our actions.

No matter what we do, we are still good people.

Right?

Riiiiight?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me9xqrZytV1qk13p3.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

No matter what we do, we are still good people.

Right?

Riiiiight?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me9xqrZytV1qk13p3.gif

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Well this is an MMO so it would be hard to make a decision based story out of it. I mean even in SWTOR the worst repercussion you can get for butchering innocents is a few dark side points that you can counterbalance the next time you talk to your servant droid.

And there is also the difference between western and eastern RPGs. I mean we call the JRPG-s, but you aren't strictly speaking playing a role. You are experiencing. You will always be Cecil, Cloud or Bartz and can't deviate from their intended story arcs. In Kotor you could become a villain if you wanted to. Then again, you couldn't join the big bad. The final boss is always the same. There are limits to video game freedom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Well it's not that hard; we kill mobs because we're told we'll get something for it, and it's just a game so there's only positive consequences to our actions.

No matter what we do, we are still good people.

Right?

Riiiiight?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me9xqrZytV1qk13p3.gif

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Well as Midgardsormr puts it, we are little more than errand boys for everyone. They just tell us our penis is soooo big, and btw, could you be a dear and kill that big scary monster. We don't care about the whys, just that compliment that will come with it.


Minfilla/Jazalan/anyone "...sooo big!"

Us "Hurrrr, you think so! Ok! I'll go do that thing!"

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Well this is an MMO so it would be hard to make a decision based story out of it. I mean even in SWTOR the worst repercussion you can get for butchering innocents is a few dark side points that you can counterbalance the next time you talk to your servant droid.

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Ah, but see, you're getting close to the question I'm really trying to ask.

What sort of person thinks it's OK to commit atrocities for a glowing stick because it's just a game, so who cares? I mean, it doesn't really matter or say anything about you as a person... right?

Riiiiiight?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Well as Midgardsormr puts it, we are little more than errand boys for everyone. They just tell us our penis is soooo big, and btw, could you be a dear and kill that big scary monster. We don't care about the whys, just that compliment that will come with it.

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See, that kind of blind sheep mentality is exactly what you need to stop following. Kind of part of the reason for the Dragonsong War, or so Ysayle says. Still, I'm glad you're able to grasp the fundamentals. :p

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Originally Posted by Cilia

There is no moral complexity to the game. The bad guys and good guys are cut and dry, clear as night and day. The PC is the good guy, "Eorzea's hope" as Minfilia so succinctly puts it. Anything you do is justified or excused by the narrative because it's for the "greater good"... even if that's mindlessly slaughtering sentient beings for a glowing stick because a musty book told you to do it.


Is that justified because those same sentient beings are the thralls malicious, planet-killing gods and goddesses? Maybe. I'd wager most players just do it for fun and profit, though.

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Black and white duality can be complex.
FF's more like a mix of Marcus Aurelius's Stoicism and Immanuel Kant's Transcendental Idealism.
There is depth to that, it's just a beneath the surface of the reasoning.
FF has a history of being aware of any questionability, but rebukes it with a stoic response. Fully aware of its stance.

With players, I'm pretty sure CoD or other games that don't narrative for their main game focus is actually a better argument for Nihilism.
Or most other MMO's where you kill massive amounts of sentient beings without any backstory justification.

Morally grey stories can be done well.
But they're usually surface level deep for psudeo-philosophers to think their thoughts are provoked, but usually over the same tried issues.
It's a cop-out because like more simple black and white stories, it doesn't acknowledge the difference between a priori and posteriori heritage of morality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

See, that kind of blind sheep mentality is exactly what you need to stop following. Kind of part of the reason for the Dragonsong War, or so Ysayle says. Still, I'm glad you're able to grasp the fundamentals. :p

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The silent protagonist should not be taken as a person with choices.
They are more of an agent of the world.
It's precisely because these games still use a silent protagonist, without choice, that it emphasizes a deterministic but non-nihilistic(usually brought up, such as with the Gaius Baelsar) narrative.
In these cases, there was never any real choice anyway. It's an illusion.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

snip

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Eheh... I wasn't trying to bring philosophy into this. I'm not a learned philosopher, and I totally accept that the game has a black and white view of morality. Maybe kind of grey in regards to the Garleans and Grand Companies sometimes.

Anyway, the player character is a silent protagonist, but that just makes them an extension of the player. In that regard, there is always a choice, doubly so with regard to the totally optional Relic Weapons (what the original topic is about). Takes a bit of out-of-the-box thinking, but there is a choice.

C'mon, give it a shot! Work those brain cells!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORrrr, can we have more stabby stab and less blah blah blah?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Eheh... I wasn't trying to bring philosophy into this. I'm not a learned philosopher, and I totally accept that the game has a black and white view of morality. Maybe kind of grey in regards to the Garleans and Grand Companies sometimes.

Anyway, the player character is a silent protagonist, but that just makes them an extension of the player. In that regard, there is always a choice, doubly so with regard to the totally optional Relic Weapons (what the original topic is about). Takes a bit of out-of-the-box thinking, but there is a choice.

C'mon, give it a shot! Work those brain cells!

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Well, because of the given setting, the context can be assumed to still follow the type of character the Warrior of Light is.

But if we're talking about player motivations, I agree.
It's on the same level, though, to me as those who raid or do content without caring about the story.
Even when there is clearly outlined context, it matters little to these type of players anyway.
They play to kill stuff and get rewarded.

In this particular case, the players that consider the setting and context should assume there is more backstory that fits the PC.
For the players that don't, they just kill stuff cause it's fun and they get rewarded.
It didn't matter, to the latter, if those things are sentient or not because the story and setting is irrelevant to them.

The choice might be there, but it's a binary one.
If you reach the point of considering the setting to think of the killing of other sentient creatures as wrong, you might as well consider there might be more in books to justify it.

There are a lot of good cases for choice in games.
Just not really for a theme park MMO, with such the PC being a paragon of heroism.


But on the other side, I agree about people thinking more about what they're doing in the game.
People are different though. And playing and battling without considering the story or knowing why you're fighting, it's not really something I understand.
But I can't tell people how to play, and games like Chess or Go are mental exercises which can be fun.
To some extent, this is an extension of that.