Give PLD In-Combat Raise? (3.0?)

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I can think of several occasions in endgame dungeons and content where taking 8 seconds to raise a healer or even a bard or summoner would have prevented a wipe and the need to start the fight over again.

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That's questionable considering limited mp pool (which you may need mp for other duties like adds), your taking hits which can interrupt your swiftcastless raise easily, then it takes a moment for the healer to recover mp to even be combat ready, assuming the bard has mp and is capable of doing ballad at that moment. Your still looking at least 15-30 seconds of hard downtime which is usually all it takes to wipe, even if you manage to recover that can also mean significant dps loss on all ends from other potential deaths or enragement timers.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

That's questionable considering limited mp pool (which you may need mp for other duties like adds), your taking hits which can interrupt your swiftcastless raise easily, then it takes a moment for the healer to recover mp to even be combat ready, assuming the bard has mp and is capable of doing ballad at that moment. Your still looking at least 15-30 seconds of hard downtime which is usually all it takes to wipe, even if you manage to recover that can also mean significant dps loss on all ends from other potential deaths or enragement timers.

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It's not questionable, being able to raise a healer when the boss is close to dead could of saved many of my wipes at 5-10%.

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Originally Posted by Cligue

It's not questionable, being able to raise a healer when the boss is close to dead could of saved many of my wipes at 5-10%.

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Why waste an important trait slot for a CC skill that has marginal usefulness, if your healers are struggling to stay afloat in difficult content then you are too. If PLD's aren't tanking it would be one thing, but we don't have the luxury of high mp nor swiftcast, presence of mind, or Surecast to avoid long casts or interruptions, and though we have a means to restore mp we have to manage hate and personal mp usage for other things like flash and stances when the fight calls for it. I'm not saying it can't be useful on rare occasions, but there are much better uses for trait slots than for a situational CC skill.

Now if we are gonna talk battle raise's I'd much rather they actually make those Raise items like Phoenix Down usable in combat, even if it starts double weak or gives an extended weakness timer off the bat. It opens up the options for everyone, and helps reduce stress on healers if the tanks/healers have their hands full at the moment.

In the situations we are pointing out you would already have ample amount of hate to cast a raise, if you are close to losing hate when the boss is 40% or lower you need to learn to 123 better, or are very under geared compared to your dps, and the add thing, like I stated earlier most coil bosses don't spawn adds past about 50%. also hg, will allow you to cast uninterrupted, and let's be honest that would make hg a way better oshit button.

I think most of this conversation has been derailed from the original question, which was "Would it be OP"

No. No it would not be. It's simply give you the chance to use the ability you already have that you can't use effectively currently, There's no reason to restrict raises to Out of combat vs. In Combat. So by all means, make it more useful.

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Originally Posted by Steady

I think most of this conversation has been derailed from the original question, which was "Would it be OP"

No. No it would not be. It's simply give you the chance to use the ability you already have that you can't use effectively currently, There's no reason to restrict raises to Out of combat vs. In Combat. So by all means, make it more useful.

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Oh ya OP, I do agree with that. Not op, more options, decision making is good.

I'd LOVE to be able to raise while in combat.

But IMO, it would be OP simply due to it's usefulness and most will prefer to have a PLD over any other tanks. Why make a healer waste their MP when a PLD can raise? The PLD can then easily regain their MP via riot blade.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'd LOVE to be able to raise while in combat.

But IMO, it would be OP simply due to it's usefulness and most will prefer to have a PLD over any other tanks. Why make a healer waste their MP when a PLD can raise? The PLD can then easily regain their MP via riot blade.

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Keep in mind if the tank gets hit by any skills they get interrupted unless they have hallowed ground on which is a 7min cooldown, they also can't block or parry while casting, so damage taken goes up while using it, and PLD does not get swiftcast so they'll always take forever to actually cast the spell.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Keep in mind if the tank gets hit by any skills they get interrupted unless they have hallowed ground on which is a 7min cooldown, they also can't block or parry while casting, so damage taken goes up while using it, and PLD does not get swiftcast so they'll always take forever to actually cast the spell.

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It's almost like this would have literally one, very situational use and shouldn't be a thing.

Also I'd like to note that as OT (and not actually tanking anything), you could raise anyone and replenish that MP with Riot Blade... which might be a bit OP.

Should Paladins be given an in-combat raise? No.

The biggest thing people seem to be missing here is that Raise is a CROSS CLASS skill. It's a CHOICE to have it as a Paladin or not, it's not just handed to you. Sure, they could definitely use more.. 'holy' type skills, because they're really missing out on that part of their theme, but an in combat raise? No.

Summoners are Arcanists, they have their own resurrect. The same way White Mages are Conjurers, and they are given their own. Paladin is only 'borrowing' the raw skill from conjurer, not the trait given to the class it belongs to, with it.

I would rather this game not turn into WoW where even the tanks have 'in combat res', and are expected to res people when they shouldn't have died to begin with. If a healer dies, GG, they decided to play the role that's job is to keep the group alive, and couldn't keep themselves alive, if the whole group wipes after that then that is their fault for dying as such an important role. It isn't much different than if a tank dies. Either the OT will pick the boss up, just as the second healer would continue healing, or the boss will run rampart and eat everyone's faces.

Not to mention, Paladin is already the 'safety net' of the two tanking classes, and will likely continue to be that safety net throughout Heavensward simply due to their mitigation and how Paladin main tanking trumps War main tanking throughout progression, easily. (Incoming buttflustered pride Warriors who are too much of a brute to understand the reality of things, and funny enough are off tanks in their static)

If Paladins are given an in combat res, they'll be even more of that 'safety net', because they'll have both a 10 second immunity to.. just about everything, and the ability to clean up after the biggest mistake someone can do in a fight, dying. Warriors will need something, and Dark Knights will as well, otherwise War, and potentially Dark Knights will be pushed even further into the off-tank zone because Paladins will not just be the superior tank in terms of progression, but also the superior supporting tank, even if they're main tanking. Paladins are already in such high demand for progression honestly, they don't need even more reason to be in demand (At least in that way), over say for example a combination of a Warrior + Dark Knight tank setup.