there's a lot of sensitive people in this game

Between asking a Healer to do some DPS with having a Healer not DPSing, which would be more logic and more real???

We have Trinity for a reason, we are all given a specific roles to fulfil. Anything outside the already appointed role is just a bonus and should be treated as such. Much like asking Pal, when he has established a decent threat, go and help with the Healing as the Healer is busy with Dpsing...So much for a reality...

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Originally Posted by JaydeDancer

Healers should not be expected to DPS. They are healers, they heal. It is up to the melee and ranged DD to kill the mobs. If they can't do it, then that isn't on the healer. It is on you.

If this has happened to you before, have you ever considered that maybe it is you and not everyone else?

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All players at top level are expected to use their full abilities to the best of their potential. That includes tanks using defensive CDs optimally, DPS using their support abilities and healers using damage abilities. That is needed in progression, especially with FCoB due to the very tight DPS checks while progressing and gearing up. Healer DPS can make the difference between beating the enrage timer this week or having to wait for DPS to gear up more another week.

Also it makes things go faster, smoother and a lot more interesting as healer being able to not tunnel vision on only one thing at a time. Not to mention, even the CNJ quest line promotes using the elements for damage to protect others and not just heal. Maybe, in your mind, tanks should only flash as they are meant to tank, not to do damage :P

We are not talking about Top End High level here but rather in general. Seriously, does everything have to be involved around top end players?? Just because those top end players can do it, everyone expect the rest to perform the same???So Absurd. They are praised as top end players because they can do things extraordinary. If everyone is extraordinary themselves, there will be no such thing as Top End Players or Elites.

How did this become an issue about someone "pushing" a healer to DPS? The dude clearly stated "holy?" once and got kicked for it. That's some high level of sensitivity right there and that's what the thread was about. He wasn't even complaining (in the game) that the healer wasn't DPSing, he only stated his piece here to expound on his story.

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Originally Posted by Inflorescence

post #50

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You're forgetting shorthand is considered standard and acceptable in online communications by any modern society. I'm not saying it's literary genius, but you'd have to be in a unique situation to even be typing in a forum or playing a game like this and not understand that.

You can't assume he was being "curt" based off of what he said and the media you are referencing. If he actually spoke like that in real life, then maybe.

In your example #2, you say he was telling someone how to actually play, but he was actually asking a question. And no, the line was not "far before "holy?""

In example #3 you say he failed to micromanage his party, when in fact he made an emotionless suggestion that was met with him being removed from the party. So, can't really manage anything then.

Then in conclusion, you say he acted selfishly in a team based activity. How do you possibly know this based off of what they said in the original post? It's impossible to ascertain that from what the op said happened. YOU believe he is making himself out to be the victim. Please read what people say from now on before judging them and calling them names. Give people some credit.

I find creating a thread about someone being over sensitive to be a little over sensitive. Sounds like you didn't miss much, just shrug your shoulders and move on. Hakuna Matata.

its sad you got kicked for that they could have simply said no to you...as I would have.

I give credit to healers that choose to dps and heal and are comfy at it enough to do so, but it should not be expected...ever.

I respect the healer role the most in any game, if they want to heal only, so be it, that is their primary role after all.

If they choose to dps too grats to them and ty for the help but don't ask for it, they are well aware they have holy no need to bring it up imo they will use it if they are comfortable enough all on their own.

Seeing that the healer and the tank are in the same FC, this might not necessarily apply but when I heal and don't know the tank, I usually give it 1-2 mobs to see how he can hold a few hits. There are too many squishy tanks out there thinking their role is to DPS or they are PLD with Warrior complexes.

Going on, I will dps when I feel confident the tank won't die from being looked at too hard or if the fight allows me the additional mp.

I don't consider myself sensitive (though I might rant about you behind my screen) but online communities or not, one-word communication leaves too much room for interpretation. Make sure to make a real sentence next time like:

"Feel free to use holy if you want"

For me, this leaves the decision with the healer (as it should) while you make your point clear. Not everyone has the ability to split their duties and holy cast time can be tricky (assuming swiftcast is on CD).

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Originally Posted by Ladyaceous

You're forgetting shorthand is considered standard and acceptable in online communications by any modern society. I'm not saying it's literary genius, but you'd have to be in a unique situation to even be typing in a forum or playing a game like this and not understand that.

You can't assume he was being "curt" based off of what he said and the media you are referencing. If he actually spoke like that in real life, then maybe.

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Saying "holy?" is not shorthand. But if you're going to argue semantics and say that it is, it's certainly not a shorthand that is standard and acceptable. If it were standard, all shouts in Mor Dhona, all communication in CT, etc. would consist of emotionally vague one-word loaded questions.

I would agree with you that there is a standard and acceptable shorthand, such as "LF1M MNK/NIN for FCoB static," "pulling," or even "ballad plz," but this is not that.

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Originally Posted by Ladyaceous

In your example #2, you say he was telling someone how to actually play, but he was actually asking a question. And no, the line was not "far before "holy?""

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No, the implication of the message was, "Your job is to Holy right now, and being that you're not, I'm getting upset."

The existence of a question mark doesn't turn everything into an innocent question; if your boss comes to your desk and says, "Could you get me those numbers by the end of the day?" they're not actually asking you a question. The more directly applicable example is if it's 20 minutes until the end of the day, and your boss comes back and says, "Are you ever going to get me those numbers?" He's still not asking you a question; he's giving you a command. And he's getting upset.

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Originally Posted by Ladyaceous

In example #3 you say he failed to micromanage his party, when in fact he made an emotionless suggestion that was met with him being removed from the party. So, can't really manage anything then.

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What I said was that he was trying to micromanage his party, when it wasn't his place to do so. I did get a little too abstract in that point, though, so it didn't come across as clear as it should have.

But the suggestion certainly wasn't emotionless, unless you consider it emotionless in the sense that he didn't find it worth the time to clarify the connotation he was saying "holy?" in. So any reaction that he would have received would have been on him, because he thought the right course of action was to respond with an emotionally vague one-word loaded question.

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Originally Posted by Ladyaceous

Then in conclusion, you say he acted selfishly in a team based activity. How do you possibly know this based off of what they said in the original post? It's impossible to ascertain that from what the op said happened. YOU believe he is making himself out to be the victim. Please read what people say from now on before judging them and calling them names. Give people some credit.

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The selfish action was trying to tell the WHM to Holy, because he wanted the run to go faster. Instead of playing the game with everyone and allowing everyone to fulfill their roles how they saw fit, he wanted the run to go his way.

Like everyone else here, I have been in groups with many tanks who couldn't hold aggro, with DPS who consistently stand in AoEs, and with Healers who make me feel like I'm doing my job alone. But that's the nature of the beast; you put yourself in a social situation, and you have to deal with people who don't see the world, or their roles in a party, the same way you do. And there are many variables that determine what the polite way to handle the situation should be; you're on the right track if your party doesn't kick you. (And from what it sounds, he re-queued, then they left, then he laughed about it with the people who replaced them)

The last thing that someone who isn't making themselves out to be the victim would do is go on the forums and make a thread about how they're a jerk who deserved to get kicked from a party.

Myself, if I'm not holy-ing, it's because I don't feel good but still need to cap. Or currently, because I'm working on zodiac. If I'm not feeling good and I don't need to dungeon, I wont. But sometimes it's unavoidable.

I've been in parties before where I was harassed for not holy-ing 8+ mobs. I told them I didn't feel well and it would be best that I didn't because my reaction times would be crap. They didn't care. Started off like "Holy?" I said, "Nah. Don't feel too well." Which they responded with, "That's too bad. You chose to run a dungeon, and it's part of your job. Besides, if you do your full job the dungeon will be over faster and you can go be sick somewhere else."

There was more to it than that, but eventually they apologized and said, "Look. Just try it, okay? If I die because you couldn't react fast enough, that will be the end of it. We'll continue and you can just heal. Good enough?" I agreed, and they weren't able to do more than 2 big pulls without dying. The only reason the first one worked was because of Benediction. And of course the whole ordeal made us take longer than if they'd have simply allowed me to just heal.

So I don't know. On a good day, I'd be reasonable about it. If, like you and them, someone said, "Holy?" I'd say "Sure", or "kay". But on the days where I don't feel well, I'd assume a simple, "Holy?" would lead to another argument and not want to deal with it.