Make relics the best weapons 100% time

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Something...less grindy?

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like in 2.0? because i remember seeing several threads pop everyday from people crying about it being too hard

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Next to nothing?! You serious?? You have to beat T11 to get one of those, there is currently no other way to get them. IF you got one it is now easier to upgrade to 130 through hunts, that is correct, but still no T11 kill = no tome and by the time they get easier to obtain, relic will be bumped to be the best weapon in the game.

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Did you even read my post? I said if they add it to Word of Darkness. It was a couple words after what you decided to rage about. This is only if they follow what they did last time around. The i110 soldiery weapons were easy as hell to get.

I don't agree that top tier weapons should be made available to only final coil. We need other systems in this game for variety and to keep players from being bored. Even dynamis in ffxi was easier content than what we have now for relics overall. In ffxi we had different ways to obtain top weapons in that game and they weren't all relic weapons. I just think we need a variety of raid content and special content to allow a different tops weapon. We kinda have that now but not to the extent we did in ffxi. One high end raid for one top weapon is too singular and boring. If someone doesn't do coil there needs to be another option for them to get tops weapon. And tops weapons are not only for raiding and this game is not only a raiding game. Please keep that in mind this is a very diversified game already with some content spread out.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

Not once prior to your nonsensical ramblings did any of those "regular stereotypes" surface, furthermore the majority of the posts were well written and had valid points for both sides of the argument.

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I don't want to sound paranoid but it look like I did built some enemies around this forum over the last months, we are actually sharing the same opinion but...

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly...l90wo1_500.png

All I wanted was to support OP suggestion T.T... Most of the replies here are completely ignoring his/her base idea... In fact they just saw the title and posted something while totally ignoring the full post xD
And you guys keep debating over "skills" VS "times consuming" on relics but OP already solved this issue in the first lines of its post -.-; :

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Originally Posted by Umisame

I think that an easy solution would be to make possible to get items to upgrade relics in two ways. Playing endgame(coil or whatever) and/or grinding. So hardcore people can get their relic upgrade earlier than casual ppl. Grinding method should have week cap so its not possible to get relic upgrade on the firsts weeks of the patch.

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Which mean : A finished relic through raid would be better for a long amount of times before casuals/midcores catch up and get to the same step. Also, the grind and rng part could be replaced by proving a skill value in raid contents.

Quality of this forum start to look like Youtube's comments xD

Back on the OP thread, I think there is a lot of laziness in the mind of raiders right now, I'm a raider as well but I would totally welcome such change to the relic system... Why? simply because we would finally get rid of the DEVs decisions when it come to our best weapons and their stats, think about it, no more skill speed / spell speed for jobs that have absolutely no use of and this is only a single example.

You guys complained/cried rivers a lot when Nexus weapon reached the same Ilvel as Nael weapons and to be honest, I was myself mad about my High Allagan Book of casting because it was completely garbage as a comparison but I did get over it, gained some motivations and finished my relic in order to get ready for next steps.

I am in full agreement for less grindy relics. However the time sink is important so there should be a great many more steps with some roadblocks introduced as well. Maybe some drops from the S rank hunts to add some flavor, random area spawns etc.

Why should the best weapon come from a quest that offers little substance and low challenge?

well the current questline is coming to an end in 2.51. we will see on 3.0 if they have learend from thier mistakes or not when a new quest chain begins during the 3.0 lifespans duration. anyone who thinks current quest will still be needed to get lvl 60 relic is just blinding themselfs. it wont happen because its no longer practial to make and the new players needs a way to catch up this is done for raids aswell as t13 or coil wont be needed anymore for any unlock on 3.0 aswell. a lvl cap raise is always A CUT in endgame content. you can also bet on all current tombstones to leave the game when 3.0 hits so you cannot farm any lvl 60 gear in advance by bunkering em or anything. none of the lvl 50 stuff is going to be NEEDED to unlock anything on heavensward except the story quest. and i bet even all the new storyquests that were added after lvl 50 storyquest endet on 2.0 wont be needed aswell as they dont grant exp. you can still do em but you wont NEED em.

Personally I don't think that zodiacs should be better than raid weapons either. The amount of time and effort it takes to successfully raid in this game seems more challenging to me than simply grinding old content until your eyes bleed. I really dislike the direction they took with the relic weapons and wish that they were a little more challenging and less grindy but that's my personal preference. I work all day throughout the weekdays and coming home to grind fates and old dungeons I've already done hundreds of times just doesn't feel fun to me, I guess that's why I'm still on the animus stage for the 2 weapons I actually want.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Something...less grindy? Obviously. Casuals do not care / do not have the time for grinding. They want to have fun in the amount of time they play, they want to progress with things. The initial quests that lead up to actually getting the relic were great: challenging, not at all easy, but actually doable without losing sleep (or all your savings) on it. I understand the need to keep old content alive, but bugger me with a broadsword, when I'm the Warrior of Light who defeated primals and got rid of the imperials, don't send me out to massacre mandragoras - only for a random chance to obtain what I need, for what's supposedly my job's legendary powerful weapon. Let those raiders who always complain about being bored and not having anything to do because of weekly lockouts anyway do that.

It's just backwards logic, the way it is now, as I see it. Problem is, the relic is the single most integral part of your job (and the most straightforward thing too, something pretty much a default for casuals, imo), so I think everyone would want to care about it, at least considering one's main job. The way it is now, it's nigh' on impossible without way too much time investment to solely focus on this one thing - in this sense, it's not any different than the current endgame raid, you spend just as much time on this as you would on that. If not more. Same thing as with Coil, it's pretty much the most integral part to ARR's storyline, and having it locked behind the "hardcore" endgame raid was what quite a lot of people really had the problem with, in my experience.


PLEASE REMOVE CHARACTER LIMIT, IT'S ANNOYING AND USELESS.

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However, "casuals" don't play in a vacuum. This is an MMO and every change to the game causes a change across the board. The relic system is suppose to take a long time to get, because they are 2nd BIS. This isn't some glamour item, this is the second best item in that slot for the whole patch. Reminder that dungeon and primal weapons are also a thing, and SE doesn't want to kill those items. Need I remind you the abysmal failure Ramuh (killed by his own patch) was until his rings were buffed?

This currently can be done two ways: put a requirement behind hard bosses (the coil way), or put a requirement behind items that take a long time to acquire (the current relic system). Square tried the first way in 2.0 and people constantly complain about Titan being "too hard", which is the same reason people complain about Coil. To counter that, they instead focus on long item gathering grinds which while are boring, don't have some skill barrier that you must overcome, and can be done by everyone. This is why people call it "not hardcore" though I guess that depends if you consider determination different from skill (I think both are required and can be hardcore).

The relic isn't really integral, it just has good stats. A primal weapon or a Coil weapon can swap it out, +/- a few stats. Lorewise maybe, but in terms of the actual job and it's mechanics, not much (since the stat system is so simple).

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

A lot of people will not be able to give you a direct answer other than, "Something that isn't a mindless grind."

While I do understand that grinding is considered hardcore, it is by nature of MMOs to have large grinds that requires a lot of time to achieve - and this is what the relic quest chain has you do. It is there so you can work towards it. By removing the grind, you are essentially demolishing the effort and time required to obtain such a weapon and turn it into a mindless point-run-and-click fetch quest. If otherwise, asking for it to be a kill quest is essentially the same thing. People will complain about the trials just as they have with Titan HM on release. It's not a very good alternative as people will sell runs - thus effectively dumbing down the weapon's worth.

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This is why I asked. It seems many people just think about their perspective (trying to say this as nice as possible) and don't look at the big picture. Yeah, getting a relic while only playing 30m 3 days a week would be nice, but then you break the game for everyone else. People need to understand that MMOs are grindy by their vary nature. They were never meant to be quick 30m games.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Something...less grindy? Obviously. Casuals do not care / do not have the time for grinding. They want to have fun in the amount of time they play, they want to progress with things.

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The Relic grind is extremely casual. It takes a long time, but it's still casual and in no way, shape, or form "hardcore". Which is fine; it's not supposed to be. It's sole purpose is to give people too casual to raid a long term end-game objective to continue logging in and playing (see: continue paying) for.