Oh ship! Mystery Trial Revealed!

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Originally Posted by lololink

Well I still wonder how Nabriales is connected to Cuchulainn, maybe he'll summon him during the fight or maybe once we defeated him we can get a way to summon Cuchulainn later with the summoning system they wanted to make in the game, a crystal like the one in FFXII that appear when you defeat an esper, well it's only speculations, it's possible that the espers and the ascians aren't really related in FFXIV, we only know that Belias and Zodiark exist in this world.

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and yet there are similarities. Elidibus may be the main summoner of Zodiark (or at least leads the council of Ascians), and there was that Ascian who gave the ability to summon Belias-egi to Tristan (dunno is his name is known).

If this theory is correct, I kinda hope to see Lahabrea summoning Mateus when we come to fight him again :)

I don't think the ascians that give the crystals to Tristan have names, it must be Random Ascian #576 or something like that, as for Elidibus I think it's more because they needed a name for the opposite to Zodiark as he and Ultima didn't have one so they picked Elidibus name and Ultima's ascian just called herself Ultima, so I don't think we can really be sure that it means that they can summon them, although it would be really cool !

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

If this theory is correct, I kinda hope to see Lahabrea summoning Mateus when we come to fight him again :)

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It's a wild theory, and checking early Coil dialog makes me doubt it somewhat, though the guards dialog makes zero sense to me in the English localization. He talks of chaos and carnage as if he'd just witnessed a Primal, when I really doubt he saw Bahamut (and even if he did, would he not instantly identify "a Primal" as Bahamut?).

One other theory is that Ifrit effectively is Belias, just remolded by a new set of followers, same being true for all the elemental Primals (so Mateus = Shiva). It would explain why Belias-Egi was just an emo Ifrit-Egi, though other than that there isn't much to base it on. If we knew which Paragons taught which tribes to summon their Primal it might hold some weight (Loghrif would have taught the Amalj'aa, Mitron the Ixali, for example). Interestingly when it comes to Shiva after her defeat an Ascian does mention that "Lahabrea will be pleased", which indicates Lahabrea had some interest in the summoning of the Ice Primal... Hardly irrefutable evidence, but it makes for some nice theory crafting.

Still, assuming the Japanese version of the Achievement really does indicate we're fighting Nabriales, I really hope it isn't just him. I simply cannot see a fight with just an Ascian being interesting. Part 1 of Before the Fall is meant to be the end of 2.0, with Part 2 being the start of 3.0, so I'd expect a bigger send off than "It's like Lahabrea at the end of Praetorium, but harder! Enjoy their stupid laugh!". Something like Cúchulainn would be a big surprise and raise a lot of interesting questions that wont be answered anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by lololink

I don't think the ascians that give the crystals to Tristan have names, it must be Random Ascian #576 or something like that, as for Elidibus I think it's more because they needed a name for the opposite to Zodiark as he and Ultima didn't have one so they picked Elidibus name and Ultima's ascian just called herself Ultima, so I don't think we can really be sure that it means that they can summon them, although it would be really cool !

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The Ascian that teatches Tristan how to summon Belias-egi is called "Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice"

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Originally Posted by Mholito

The Ascian that teatches Tristan how to summon Belias-egi is called "Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice"

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*Looks at the Before the Fall logo*

>_>

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Originally Posted by lololink

I don't think the ascians that give the crystals to Tristan have names, it must be Random Ascian #576 or something like that, as for Elidibus I think it's more because they needed a name for the opposite to Zodiark as he and Ultima didn't have one so they picked Elidibus name and Ultima's ascian just called herself Ultima, so I don't think we can really be sure that it means that they can summon them, although it would be really cool !

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As Mholito mentioned, the Ascian encountered in the SMN storyline was simply stated as 'Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice' - an earlier story cutscene featured similar generic Ascians as well, seeming to suggest there is a strict hierarchy amongst the Ascians (don't forget Alphinaud mentioned Lahabrea was actually an 'Ascian overlord' which would explain the generic Ascians as being 'lower ranked' ones - their 'rank and file' so to speak).

As well, Ultima's Ascian form actually used the old PS1 FF Tactics translation of her name as 'Altima', which was probably for technical reasons to avoid player confusion with the similarly sounding Ultima Weapon - the development team also stated this was an issue when designing the Crystal Tower and they found that certain FFIII bosses and enemies found there had names that were already used by FFXIV bosses and enemies, as noted here by Ferne.

If anything though, it helps establish the Ascians as being actually completely different beings to the Ivalice Alliance Espers/Scions of Light/Zodiac Braves/Lucavi.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

The Ascian that teatches Tristan how to summon Belias-egi is called "Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice"

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I think the other ascians takes their names from the tarrot cards 1-14 of sword, staff, coin and cup ( or in our case Chalice ) I think one of the ascian in Haukke is called ascian of the somethingth sword.

I didn't know that Ultima is called Altima in english, in french she is named Ultima.

Although they are obviously different beings the fact that they chose these names means that they might have some kind of link with Belias and the other Ivalice summons and not only Zodiark, although it's only speculation for now.

By the way I just watched the ascian cinematic of 2.3 and something I overlooked, they say that they want to make an awoken being ( which I think means someone that posess the echo ) a normal human for their plot, that might be what they want to do to Minfilla.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

It's a wild theory, and checking early Coil dialog makes me doubt it somewhat, though the guards dialog makes zero sense to me in the English localization. He talks of chaos and carnage as if he'd just witnessed a Primal, when I really doubt he saw Bahamut (and even if he did, would he not instantly identify "a Primal" as Bahamut?).

One other theory is that Ifrit effectively is Belias, just remolded by a new set of followers, same being true for all the elemental Primals (so Mateus = Shiva). It would explain why Belias-Egi was just an emo Ifrit-Egi, though other than that there isn't much to base it on. If we knew which Paragons taught which tribes to summon their Primal it might hold some weight (Loghrif would have taught the Amalj'aa, Mitron the Ixali, for example). Interestingly when it comes to Shiva after her defeat an Ascian does mention that "Lahabrea will be pleased", which indicates Lahabrea had some interest in the summoning of the Ice Primal... Hardly irrefutable evidence, but it makes for some nice theory crafting.

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Both theories could in fact be only one. What defines a primal ? Aetheric entity appearing before those who pray for it to appear and answer their needs (in scenario, it all comes down to blasting their ennemies away though >_>). That said, who is to say different people have the same image of their primal, even though they are only one ?

What if Belias (who was only named in ancient scriptures iirc) was actually Ifrit, as the one and only fire primal, but at a different time ? Different time, different aspect, but the same entity.

We know the Ascians are immortal and were here for a very long time. It's possible they have messed up with primal summoning more than once (or twice, according to the scenario, as many of the primals we're fighting have already been beaten at a point since their unsealing). If Belias was the former Ifrit, it would make more sense in the "Ascians are the original summoners of the primals" theory.

That said, Why would they have that power ? What or Who gave them that power ? (as well as the power to transcend death) Many interesting things can come from here (if correct)

Yay brainfodder !

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Originally Posted by lololink

By the way I just watched the ascian cinematic of 2.3 and something I overlooked, they say that they want to make an awoken being ( which I think means someone that posess the echo ) a normal human for their plot, that might be what they want to do to Minfilla.

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you should check the 2.5 trailer again. Interesting brainfodder for you there ^_^

Either Minfilia as she got captured, or you, who takes a spear of light into the chest and apparently loses your connection with the 6 crystals you gained through your heroic deeds in 2.0 scenario

It's pretty obvious what the name of the trial will be at the least. If you look down at the expressions added to the auto-translate dictionary at the bottom of the patch notes, it says "the void". All other duties there have been mentioned in the patch notes save for "the void." Odds are that's the name of the trial.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Either Minfilia as she got captured, or you, who takes a spear of light into the chest and apparently loses your connection with the 6 crystals you gained through your heroic deeds in 2.0 scenario

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I don't think we would lose the echo, that would make us vulnerable to primal's control.