PLD Novus: Parry or DET?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

He's correct. You should max DET. Whether you care to take the time to do it is up to the player. But you should if you have the means. Spirit bond a set of i70 a day and you Kk have enough det IVs in a couple weeks with another 10 mil from selling other materia.

---

There is not a single encounter in the game where these particular 11 points of Det are mandatory on a PLD and/or would make a noticeable difference on the outcome of the battle.

You really can't justify spending that much time/gils on Tier IV Det for a PLD Relic for such a mediocre increase in DPS.

It's just a matter of OCD satisfaction and theory crafting... which make absolutly no difference in the actual game since it's not built around gear checks at all.
The fact that a single lagspike during the fight can completly nullify the benefits of these stat points is quite enough to say that they are absolutly not worth the invesment.

In theory, they are. In practice, absolutly not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

In theory, they are. In practice, absolutly not.

---

In the world of secondaries which yes have little meaning DET is by far the best.

You can go an entire fight and not parry an attack. You can go an entire foght and not Crit once.

How many groups have wiped to t13 under 1%?? The answer is most groups wipe at 1% before clearing. Add 11 det across 8 party memebers and you are getting real close to clearing.

Nothing requires any secondaries but if you are going to build a weapon over 3 months shouldn\\'t it be the best?

Materia cost very little gil since you can farm it. I didn't do max DET right away but redid my scroll after a month. If you farm your own materia you will come out WAY ahead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

In the world of secondaries which yes have little meaning DET is by far the best.

---

Yes, Det is the best secondary stat. I never said otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

You can go an entire fight and not parry an attack. You can go an entire foght and not Crit once.

---

Yes, RNG sucks. I never said otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

How many groups have wiped to t13 under 1%?? The answer is most groups wipe at 1% before clearing. Add 11 det across 8 party memebers and you are getting real close to clearing.

---

Good question. Really. How many groups wiped to T13 at under 1% because their PLD was lacking 11 Det? Besides, just give that PLD the i130 sword. It's better than Excalibur anyway.
As I said, theory is a thing, practice is another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

Nothing requires any secondaries but if you are going to build a weapon over 3 months shouldn\\'t it be the best?

---

The Relic weapon should be the best... for the content you are doing. Only a very few people of the playerbase are actually involved into very endgame content. The vast majority of PLD will never need these 11 points. Never.
So, spending a month grinding for gils/materia for something you'll never have a use for is not very smart.
My answer then would be no, the relic should not be the best weapon ever. It should be *your* weapon, and you should make it to fit your playstyle.
If the content you're doing doesn't require you to optimize your stats, then doing it anyway just for the sake of it is pointless... and FFXIV requires very little stat optimization.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

Materia cost very little gil since you can farm it. I didn't do max DET right away but redid my scroll after a month. If you farm your own materia you will come out WAY ahead.

---

Yes, you can respec your relic. So, it does make my point: don't aim for the most expensive build right off the bat just to get 11 points of det you'll never have a use for.
Does it make the grind for gils/materia worth it? No. At least, not for most players.


tl;dr: Almost nobody need to spend 10-15M for 11 points of Det which won't change anything anyway.
If a PLD want to put Crit or Parry instead of these 11 Det, it will more likely change absolutly nothing... so telling him/her to max Det anyway will just result in play time being wasted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Money is not the crux if the issue. Acc, crit, det, and never touch tier iv is what you do if money's a problem. Not do parry. That's the point. Parry should never really be on the table and being broke doesn't change that.

Parry:
*has very little defensive effect. 11 points roughly 1% increased chance to block 25ish% damage. That means 11 parry is about 0.25% damage reduction. 110 frigging parry is about 2.5% damage reduction. Oh and did I mention it does zero for magic? And zero of the m9nsters isn't hitting you? 110 crit is about a 5% increase in dps and ALWAYS works. Oh did I mention that putting on a shield waters down that 0.25% even more (depending on block rate). Parry is bad on war. It's HORRENDOUS on pld because shields are litterally stealing parries value.

Parry is really, really, terrible. If you can't afford tier 4 then don't waste what little gil you do have on a terrible stat.

---

Just to drive this point home!

T13, the only meaningful attack you can parry is Flatten, which you will likely block more than you parry anyway.
Ack Morn is Magic, as well as the 3-1 Flare Breaths after the Phase 1 and 2 Flattens.

So, with Flatten itself aside, you can only parry Bahamut's auto attacks. 1500~ Unmitigated on a Paladin in Shield Oath.
Bahamut auto attacks you roughly every 4 seconds for 9 Minutes and 45 seconds of the fight. (estimating for while he is using flatten, Flares, and Earth Shaker, Flare Stars..)
That adds up to around 150 Auto attacks in total. (if we assume he will reach the enrage flare.)
So his auto attacks will hit you for 225,000 Damage. (Unmitigated)
5625 is Baseline parried. We are expected to parry at base 10% of those attacks for roughly 2.5% of ALL the damage to be mitigated.
The best possible Parry set adds 217 more parry than the best possible DPS Fending set. Which is an additional 2.82% damage expected to be mitigated.
Which adds up to an additional 6345 damage to be mitigated over the 9 minutes and 45 seconds of Bahamut attacking you.
The best DPS Set gives you 138 Crit Rating and 71 Determination more than the Parry set.
So is it worth it? Would you trade 8.8% Crit chance and 71 Determination(21 Strength worth) for 6345 damage mitigated over nearly 10 minutes? (That's 10 DPS FYI)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

The Relic weapon should be the best... for the content you are doing. Only a very few people of the playerbase are actually involved into very endgame content.

So, spending a month grinding for gils/materia for something you'll never have a use for is not very smart.

Does it make the grind for gils/materia worth it?

telling him/her to max Det anyway will just result in play time being wasted.

---

I severely cherry picked from your post, but I'm responding to those points.

If said player is not doing end game content, then WHAT is that player doing trying to get the Relic fully upgraded? Oh, maxing out to get the best weapon available to them!

That being said, I would ALWAYS say that if this is the best weapon available to me, I would want it to be at it's absolute best, since it is the end all be all for the current content available.

What else do you spend said gil on? Glamours? Honestly, the Gil factor is not all that important when this is the "best" weapon available to you.

Someone tried to test the parry ---> parry rate transform in my server. It seems the 5- 10 points parry will increase 1% parry rate. Of course, it is not really accurate.But what we can get from that is the parry points will provide a very decent number to your parry rate.
Back to this topic.
In my opinion, the parry still is really useful in some specific situation. ( For PLD)
1. Add phase, adds' auto-attack speed much higher then boss. So the Parry is really useful.
2. Some instant high damage attack. Such as the flare breathe in T13. Sometimes the flare breathe is in your CD duration, sometimes not. And it causes a really high damage for you when it is not in your CD duration. Though you cannot parry the flare breathe , you can parry the auto-attack to minimize the damage. Parry will benefit PLD much more, if the incoming damage is higher ( such as the T13 boss auto-attack ). If you parry the auto-attack during flare breathe, it will help you healer a lot.

3. We can see that many mechanics in Fcob are physics damage, such as earthshaker, bennu's straight line AOE. Parry is useful to mitigate those damage, too.
4. Multiple attacks to single target, such as Bahamut's claws. Parry is really useful that kind of mechanic , too.
Currently , I only found these advantages of parry.

For determination. I think it always is a good stat for tank. Since the new coil always request dps check, determination is really good to increase DPS for pushing boss before enrage or 3 bennus or bennus in T12.

In one word. I think both are really good stats. How to choose them totally depends on different players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TomCatMew

2. Some instant high damage attack. ... Though you cannot parry the flare breathe , you can parry the auto-attack to minimize the damage.

...

3. We can see that many mechanics in Fcob are physics damage, such as earthshaker, bennu's straight line AOE. Parry is useful to mitigate those

---

First, if parry saves you on the 1-2 autoattacks during Flatten+Flare, you were in worse shape than you think. If you didn't have cooldowns up for whatever reason, you have failed somewhere as a tank. If you're referring to the single breaths boss does at points in the rotation: not a big deal. It's a healer check. Stoneskin yourself if you're that paranoid about it.

"Many mechanics" is a really vague way of putting it, and the examples you gave are pretty awful.

Earthshaker - PLD is virtually never going to be hit by this unless you are off-tank or choose to Cover a melee. You will take one hit at worst in P4 if you suck at timing.
Bennu line aoe - What line aoe? Just dodge. If you mean just the Bennu itself, it doesn't hit that hard.

Autoattack crits are largely negligible. Yes T12 boss crits for a ton, that's about the only time it really matters and it's not something you can really control.

Better way of tackling parry vs non-parry is the same way you tackle cooldowns: what am I using them for? Big hits or otherwise healer-intensive moments (adds).

T10
Can parry Critical Rip, adds (except Crackle Hiss)
Cannot parry Charge, Crackle Hiss, or mechanics.

T11
Can parry Resonance, Secondary Head, and Main Head
Cannot parry missiles/gas (doesn't really matter)
Cannot parry adds

T12
Can parry Revelation, Bennu stuff
Cannot parry Flames of Rebirth, Brand passing (doesn't really matter)

T13
Can parry Flatten, Earthshaker (doesn't really matter), Death Sentence, most adds
Cannot parry Flare Breath, Tempest Wing, Akh Morn

Parry is almost useless in 13, and is pretty meh in 10. You can make a case for it in 11 and maybe 12.

Putting a Stoneskin on yourself at opportune times is better than relying on a Parry in most cases.

From a healer perspective, I wouldn't want my tank to stat parry (or go out of your way to stack it). 2-3% additional mitigation over the course of the fight doesn't mean a lot. Someone did the math above, its a few heals you are saving, that can't be relied upon to happen when it is helpful. For the things that actually kill tanks (spike damage), even if it can be parried, I can't rely on it. Cooldowns, stoneskins and precasted heals still need to be applied. Having parry means nothing to me in terms of easing my healing.

Failing DPS checks are very real. From random DF groups to pushing content... You want to save me a heal or two and save my mp? Kill the damn thing faster.

If money is an issue (it was for my Novus). Do a tri spec of crit, det and acc. Then change later if you want to add more crit and det.

So i get there is a big fuss about if you should take DET or Parry on your second stat. But did I get it right, that primarely Acc should be maxed first?