1% drop rates... a thought expriment.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

I could spend 10~ minutes or whatever it is beating Turn 7 each week, where I'll almost definitely get the UAT eventually if I'm in a static

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Are you doing this? Not hypothetically, I mean.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

If they want something to be rare, yet at least accessible to most people to try to get, low RNG is the best way to do it.

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Super low RNG is a terrible way to do things, because there's no rhyme or reason to who gets it. With a low % drop item, especially one you then have to lot for, you may never get that item before the next batch of content comes out and it becomes obsolete just because RNG hates you. That's not good design.

RNG for a vanity item like the mounts isn't *that* big a deal because it's not a functional item. The mirrors are functional items, so it's not cool to subject your players to the whims of the RNG like that.

You could say "just not do that", but there are only two alternatives. Animus, which is also subject to heavy RNG, and weathered which is not content everyone wants to do. Coil or RNG does not make for good options.

The Novus section of the Relic quest is handled better than atmas or mirrors. While it may be a little longer than I'd like, they allow for three separate paths to progress. A daily quest that is pretty quick to do, but will take a long time if you only do that. Myth grinding is there for the hardcore grinders that want it right now. And there's an RNG/Fate option for those that are happy with that.

Heavy RNG is ok, only if there are good alternatives to it for those who don't want to put up with that.

i wish they would add more stuff in game with the low drop rates over stuff that you can only run once a week. i would rather be able to go in and play the game doing the content over and over with a chance than i would do something once a week and still only have a small chance at getting an item. one way i am actually still able to play the content the other 6 days 23 hours and 50 minutes a week.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

People with this mentality need to have a stadium full of seats. This obsession with exclusivity has killed many MMOs in the past and will continue to do so as long as developers keep listening to neckbeards who believe 90-99% of players should be frozen out of accessing the best weapons.

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What exclusivity? You can beat just about any content in the game using any gear/weapon (within reason of course, as long as you have enough accuracy to actually land hits).
The only thing players are frozen out of (and I doubt it's anywhere near 90-99%) is the capacity to enter and clear SCOB due to the lockout system. If you don't have a static, you have to take the low road and PUG or wait for it to be put in Duty Finder and get flogged with the nerf bat.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

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you're new to MMOs aren't you ?

most games before were heavily relying on RNG, way more than FFxiv. You could farm for years and never see a drop. (But yeah, you could trade all items so if you had no luck, you could farm gold... not here).


Oh and btw, the mirror isn't supposed to be a functional item. It's "ice on the cake". If you get it, your weapon gets better and shinier. If not, your weapon is on par with T5, and you have upgrades in the coil (T7 requires i95 weapon) or with atmas/books (long grind). If you got the mirror (IF), congratulations !! you are a lucky guy who won't have to upgrade his weapon before either novus, T8 or T9.

Tidal wave weapons were not supposed to be a progression step after T5. Wave weapons are an upgrade of previous primals weapon, which were i90. that's all there is to know

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

RNG is a terrible way to do things, because there's no rhyme or reason to who gets it. With a low % drop item, especially one you then have to lot for, you may never get that item before the next batch of content comes out and it becomes obsolete just because RNG hates you. That's not good design.

RNG for a vanity item like the mounts isn't *that* big a deal because it's not a functional item. The mirrors are functional items, so it's not cool to subject your players to the whims of the RNG like that.

You could say "just not do that", but there are only two alternatives. Animus, which is also subject to heavy RNG, and weathered which is not content everyone wants to do. Coil or RNG does not make for good options.

The Novus section of the Relic quest is handled better than atmas or mirrors. While it may be a little longer than I'd like, they allow for three separate paths to progress. A daily quest that is pretty quick to do, but will take a long time if you only do that. Myth grinding is there for the hardcore grinders that want it right now. And there's an RNG/Fate option for those that are happy with that.

Heavy RNG is ok, only if there are good alternatives to it for those who don't want to put up with that.

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Wait so... you don't think that the Zenith/Atma/Animus/Novus relics (which is accessible by ANYONE if they put in the time) and base Levi Ex weapons (which is very easy to farm for) is good enough of an alternative to getting things done? What exactly are you going to be doing outside of Coil that requires such an upgrade like the mirror/atma/novus/etc weapons that deems it mandatory to acquire quickly? Serious questions.

If it's purely for the sake of having them... you're not exactly providing a strong argument to justify screwing with the progression process the devs want the game to currently provide.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Wait so... you don't think that the Zenith/Atma/Animus/Novus relics (which is accessible by ANYONE if they put in the time) and base Levi Ex weapons (which is very easy to farm for) is good enough of an alternative to getting things done? What exactly are you going to be doing outside of Coil that requires such an upgrade like the mirror/atma/novus/etc weapons that deems it mandatory to acquire quickly? Serious questions.

If it's purely for the sake of having them... you're not exactly providing a strong argument to justify screwing with the progression process the devs want the game to currently provide.

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Atma drop rates are also in the 1% drop range. So abysmal RNG for mirror or abysmal RNG for Atma. Or coil.

Too much super low RNG.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

you're new to MMOs aren't you ?

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some modern MMOs whose designers aren't lazy do things like adding tokens you have to collect with a much higher drop rate such that the differences between two players experiences with the drop rate doesn't vary so wildly (although with any random result you can get screwed, but when the chance of success is higher, the likelihood of this happening goes down). 1% drops is very 2004.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Oh and btw, the mirror isn't supposed to be a functional item.

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Does it help you kill stuff? It's functional.

It doesn't mean it has to be easy or quick to get. But, again, 1% drop rates is a bad way to handle it. Too likely to have players screwed by RNG.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Atma drop rates are also in the 1% drop range. So abysmal RNG for mirror or abysmal RNG for Atma. Or coil.

Too much super low RNG.

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Still haven't exactly provided an answer to my questions though. I am genuinely interested in knowing what you plan on doing with the weapons that's why, given that their purpose is to help push you further into Coil. And again, if it's purely for the sake of having them, you're not providing a decent argument as to why it should be a fast process when it would screw with progression steps for people that do use said weapons for their intended raid benefits.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

some modern MMOs whose designers aren't lazy do things like adding tokens you have to collect with a much higher drop rate such that the differences between two players experiences with the drop rate doesn't vary so wildly (although with any random result you can get screwed, but when the chance of success is higher, the likelihood of this happening goes down). 1% drops is very 2004.

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Nice way to prove my point :D
and tokens for what ? a single mirror ? if it's for alts classes you don't *need* the mirror. If it's for your main class, you have faster ways to improve your dps than a glow on a secondary weapon.
Also, yoshida already stated that the players were underestimating the real drop rates. Drama everyday.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Does it help you kill stuff? It's functional.

It doesn't mean it has to be easy or quick to get. But, again, 1% drop rates is a bad way to handle it. Too likely to have players screwed by RNG.

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... once again it's all but needed. It's a sub-par weapon in 2.2 patch to begin with. There is no need to get it. Ramuh weapons will be rare too. Will you complain again about an additional loot (Ramuh's loot being accessories) ? Because you know, mirrors are additional loots. Devs were never obliged to put them in the game