Enmity no longer an issue.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

While there might be some situations where it is easy for a tank to maintain enmity, the overall balance of content difficulty has been adjusted by giving consideration to the struggle for a tank to maintain enmity.

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I have to completely disagree. In the coil I can hold hate guaranteed against better geared DPS classes that are trying very hard to pull hate from me. There is no "struggle" for me to maintain enmity at all. It's quite honestly to the point that I'm spending over half my time debuffing the mob as opposed to generating hate and I tell my party to do whatever they like since there is no way they can pull hate from me. I like that we generate more enmity now, but it went a tad bit overboard. I can't imagine how boring PLD must be right now.

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Originally Posted by jars

I wish this was true. I pull off plenty of tanks with bane and shadow flare. not on bosses I guess but certainly on aoe pulls.

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And this is why Tank and Spank bosses should die. Single target Pally enmity is through the roof with Shield Oath.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I have to completely disagree. In the coil I can hold hate guaranteed against better geared DPS classes that are trying very hard to pull hate from me. There is no "struggle" for me to maintain enmity at all. It's quite honestly to the point that I'm spending over half my time debuffing the mob as opposed to generating hate and I tell my party to do whatever they like since there is no way they can pull hate from me. I like that we generate more enmity now, but it went a tad bit overboard. I can't imagine how boring PLD must be right now.

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They can't win regardless of what they choose to do. I guarantee that had they put in something to force tanks to maintain high threat (paying attention), such as diminishing threat levels over time, people would complain it's too difficult to do because there's already too much for tanks to worry about. Cooldowns, stuns, positioning, dodging red, etc. The route they took, albeit the less stressful/active approach, won't scare away people from taking up the role when they need to. "Too much responsibility" is a lot scarier to folks than "boring".

Furthermore, besides doing exactly what people are doing now, I don't see how threat management is going to be any less boring to folks that find it currently boring lol. You're still using the same abilities. Maybe it's just a mental thing. Like knowing you have to wake up for work/class because you're obligated to, instead of waking up for work/class because you have a brighter future ahead of you, would probably make that action a lot more tedious.

Devs can say what ever they want. Currently as Pld I can generate so much hate it is impossible for any DD or Healer to even come remotely close to pulling hate. I went on an alt to help a group and on an Ilvl 71 pld I can keep hate off a ilevel91 blm with 0 difficulty with the blm going all out. How is that ballanced?

All situations at endgame are easy to hold hate unless you are just bad at your jobs. In that case failure should be encouraged to force people to get better.

Hate control should be a balance shared across the party... it is not even close to that now.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

Healer: "Can you flash more please?"
Me: "If I don't ever lose hate, how is this game fun for me?"

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How is it fun? I find performing my job to the best of my ability and and making sure that not a single mob gets past me to get at the squishy roles to be fun. Maybe if you don't you're playing the wrong role. It's like your healer friends letting you die and saying "If I don't have to deal with raising a dead tank mid-fight how is this game fun for me?"

I love how much easier it is to hold hate. Not because it was hard before, but now I don't have to worry about a BLM going nuts and ripping it off of me. Even when it's not my fault, I feel like it's my fault. Nothing feels worse than losing hate that is completely out of my control, because it still feels like I did something wrong.

The issue was almost never with ST hate, but aoe hate.
Tanks have fewer resources with which to generate aoe hate and do so at a slower rate per mob... IE Overpower is ~480 hate potency for 130 TP, plus a roughly 1.5x mod from Defiance for 720 hate pot per use.
Overpower can be used ~14 times before being completely TP starved.
Now, my Warrior with the Dual Harken, mostly I90 right side, and mostly DL left side has a potency value of about 1.06, last time I bothered parsing it.

For a dps, 1 damage = 1 hate. For a tank, 1 damage = X hate due to various factors which all come together to form hate potency... such as the 720 value for Overpower.
So if a tank has a pot-val of 1.06, 1 Overpower generates ~763 hate. This means that in theory, you can hit that mob for 763 damage without pulling it off the tank.

Hell, I would like someone to just go try it. Take an I80-ish Warrior, full DL, I90 weapon, Vit accessories, and an I80ish BLM also with I90 weapon. Have the BLM prep AF3. Find a mob and have the Warrior in Defiance hit it with Overpower and nothing more. Then have the BLM use Fire 3 on it while in AF3. The Fire 3 should hit for ~900, which is more hate than the Warrior put out using their 1 Overpower, so the mob should go to the BLM.

Now try this with Turn 4. 1 tank, 2 mobs, each with a dedicated ST dps. Your ~760 hate per gcd = 304 dps... Well this IS a lot of dps, but see if it is enough to hold BOTH mobs when 2 different DPS completely unload on each one.
DPS can SPIKE a lot more than tanks can. Warriors can compensate a little with Maim (if it is up beforehand), or with Berserk and Unchained. Paladins can get a bit of help from Circle of Scorn, though Fight or Flight does not affect Flash so there's no help there.

The game has always been designed such that IF a dps chooses to fully unload, they WILL pull aggro off of an equally geared tank... Unless the tank ALSO fully unloads. This works well in ST situations, but not so much in aoe. (Ive got an I84 BLM, if I start Wave 2 of Turn 4 right after switching into Fire with full mana and just unload on the Soldier, an equally geared tank wont hold it off me)

The answer is not "give tanks more hate". The answer is "DPS KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS".
The only things in the game that NEED to die in seconds are things that dont do any meaningful damage based on aggro. So it does not matter if a tank, dps, or healer has it.
The rest of the timed fights give you a solid minute to kill the mob, so there is no need to completely unload all of your burst at the start. Put up your buffs, dots, do 3 gcd's of LOW DAMAGE PREP WORK to let the tank get a hate lead... THEN blow the thing to kingdom come.

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

I did notice this in Ultima Weapon battle. The main tank and me were trying to get hate, but Ultima just remained on him. Of course after a couple of provokes, flashes, and shield lobs I managed to get it' hate.

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After Provoke and a quick agro generating skill, you should be able to steal asap.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

To the hotshots who claim the game is dumbed down now: Get over yourselves.

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But it is dumped down. You like dumbed and easy things. That's ok. Still it doesn't make more dumbed down, though.

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Originally Posted by Gokuhan

How is it fun? I find performing my job to the best of my ability and and making sure that not a single mob gets past me to get at the squishy roles to be fun. Maybe if you don't you're playing the wrong role. It's like your healer friends letting you die and saying "If I don't have to deal with raising a dead tank mid-fight how is this game fun for me?"

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I agree with you Gokuhan, I couldn't tell if Jubez187 was being serious or just trolling around, either way like you said he's probably not meant to be a tank if he thinks losing aggro is fun. :c