Warriors Have to Wait Until 2.1...

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Originally Posted by Roaran

Basically, if you think BC is too hard for a warrior, you're just bad by relying on the unintended utility given to paladins.

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you made a lot of good points and I agree with some of them, but I think you are missing my point. It is impossible currently for a warrior to tank T5 ( and probably double dreadnaught on T4 haven't tested) like someone pointed out earlier with a clever analogy why make your life harder? I never said warrior weren't viable (except for T5) I have done all of T1-4 multiple weeks with a WAR and a PLD and it works great. They only thing warrior does better than PLD at this point is T4 add grouping and extra DPS. Also having two PLD gives a larger margin for error and almost all top guilds on my server run double PLD because it's best for progression. Is it relying on PLD? Of course it is because why not? If relying on PLD cooldowns and abilities makes me bad then I think a large majority are guilty of that.

I'm not saying it isn't the intelligent decision to take advantage of paladin's strengths right now. That is only natural. But that doesn't mean a Warrior can't still successfully complete the current content as intended.

I agree wars are SLIGHTLY under balanced when compared to paladins, at least for the low end. And before anyone starts on me no i do not have a war however i do run coil on a weekly basis with a war and she is = geared as i am and there is a noticeable difference on the snake once it hits 3 stacks. In my opinion, i think that a fully decked out war and a fully decked out pally would come closer than say a Darklight pally and war side by side simply because as it stands wars will scale better with gear vs a pally with gear simply because of the HUGE chunk of health they get. Again im only stating my opinion on this.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I'm not saying it isn't the intelligent decision to take advantage of paladin's strengths right now. That is only natural. But that doesn't mean a Warrior can't still successfully complete the current content as intended.

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I certainly hope you're right. Out of Curiosity have you tried tanking T4's double dreadnaught with a Warrior? If so what was his/her gear like?

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Originally Posted by EmSix

Am I the only one that thinks if you expect to play a tank role in end game, have both? Same with healers, have both SCH and WHM.
Sure, I feel sorry for WAR mains, but that's what the armory system is for, class stacking will always exist, so if you enjoy playing a certain role, you'd better be able to fit both shoes.

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I agree wholeheartedly. If you're serious about your endgame tanking and/or healing, it's not difficult to have both classes at 50. All of the gear except your weapon overlaps, so it doesn't even cost that much more time or money farming. Having said that, my warrior has been the backburner for weeks now due to the disparity between the classes. I'll likely finish it up well before 2.1 hits, but I don't feel rushed for it at the moment given how little desire there is for warriors in general.

I want to know how many of you have actually given it a real chance trying to MT coil.

Have you actually spent a couple of hours trying and and knowing for certain you are doing everything in your power correctly as a Warrior and are still unable to complete the content?

Or are you all just assuming because other people tell you so that it isn't possibly or some arbitrary thing like "twice as hard"

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I'm not saying it isn't the intelligent decision to take advantage of paladin's strengths right now. That is only natural. But that doesn't mean a Warrior can't still successfully complete the current content as intended.

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The warrior can't, his healers may be able to. There's nothing the Warrior himself can do to close that gap.

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Originally Posted by DaysMetherlence

I agree wars are SLIGHTLY under balanced when compared to paladins, at least for the low end. And before anyone starts on me no i do not have a war however i do run coil on a weekly basis with a war and she is = geared as i am and there is a noticeable difference on the snake once it hits 3 stacks. In my opinion, i think that a fully decked out war and a fully decked out pally would come closer than say a Darklight pally and war side by side simply because as it stands wars will scale better with gear vs a pally with gear simply because of the HUGE chunk of health they get. Again im only stating my opinion on this.

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WAR and PLD get the exact same amount of effective health with VIT.

WAR with defiance gets 25% more HP than without
PLD with shield oath can take 25% more damage than without shield oath (damage is reduced by 20%, but we're talking about extra damage he can take which is different 1.0 / 0.8 = 1.25 )

The real difference is that a WAR with full wrath stacks gets 15% bonus to incoming heals.
However, heals on a PLD go 25% further because he's always taking 20% less damage. This is the basis for the difference. Then you throw on shield block, rage of halone and superior defensive cooldowns (that all scale with incoming dmg) and that's causing the discrepancy between the two classes.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I'm not saying it isn't the intelligent decision to take advantage of paladin's strengths right now. That is only natural. But that doesn't mean a Warrior can't still successfully complete the current content as intended.

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So you are basically saying that a warrior needs to do coil with a pld as the other tank so the healers don't become too overburdened, as they would in a war/war group. That's not acceptable. You are saying we need to be carried by pld in order to do the content.

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Originally Posted by Shiji

I certainly hope you're right. Out of Curiosity have you tried tanking T4's double dreadnaught with a Warrior? If so what was his/her gear like?

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I'm curious to see if a warrior can get this done before 2.1 hits

I've never heard of/seen one do it yet.. although I've heard of plenty warriors clearing turn 4... but they were all OTing the little adds while the paladin was holding the dreadnoughts

I seriously doubt you will ever see a WAR tank double dreads. I honestly doubt you'll see a WAR tank the 4 stack dread. I have pretty sub par gear on my WAR for coil but I really don't see how 20 more VIT or STR is going to make me survive 3-3.6k regular attacks/Rotoswipes. One bad combo and you're eating dirt, and the chances of a bad combo go up when you have 2 of them punching you in the face.

Edit: Before 2.1 that is, though I'm still not getting my hopes up if they test the 2.1 buff the same way they "tested" Turn 1.