DPS Parser - ToS Violation?

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Originally Posted by Mang

If it's parsing a log, it's not against ToS because the log is auto generating outside the executable program.

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actually majority parsers will mine the data from the game memory as the txt log files are not that reliable for parsers as they are slow at updating. thus violating the ToS.

Parsers are not even accurate to DPS output at all since it cannot see DoT damage etc so overall the people using parsers and calling people out for not being the best DD in the group are in the wrong. Also parses cannot parse skill at all so overall they are the fault for the unnecessary asses using them and abusing others for no reason coz some inaccurate parser is saying a person is not as good as another DD in the group

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Originally Posted by darkvision

actually majority parsers will mine the data from the game memory as the txt log files are not that reliable for parsers as they are slow at updating. thus violating the ToS.

Parsers are not even accurate to DPS output at all since it cannot see DoT damage etc so overall the people using parsers and calling people out for not being the best DD in the group are in the wrong. Also parses cannot parse skill at all so overall they are the fault for the unnecessary asses using them and abusing others for no reason coz some inaccurate parser is saying a person is not as good as another DD in the group

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How many times does this need to be said?? Yes, some "asses" will use a tool like this to "call out" bad players, however such players will be "asses" with or without a dps meter.

You are correct that dots are not currently handled properly because of the ffxiv client not tracking dots properly, however when you're comparing your own dps on different occasions on the same fight the dots issue becomes insignificant when determining if your dps improved.

You did mention that meters cannot parse skill, while you're somewhat correct, you're also quite wrong. No, you can't get a perfect indicator of skill through combat logs but a skilled (dps) player in an mmo can be generally defined by who can outdps the other players while taking the least amount of damage. Parsers determine both damage dealt and damage taken quite well. So while not a perfect picture of how "skilled" a player is, it's a pretty good indicator.

I'd still really like SE's official position on this issue. Are parsers allowed, or not?

I think both sides of the pro/anti dps parser can agree that we all want an answer, so whether you're pro/anti dps parsers, please like this post to show SE you'd like an official answer. :-D

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Originally Posted by choke

You did mention that meters cannot parse skill, while you're somewhat correct, you're also quite wrong. No, you can't get a perfect indicator of skill through combat logs but a skilled (dps) player in an mmo can be generally defined by who can outdps the other players while taking the least amount of damage. Parsers determine both damage dealt and damage taken quite well. So while not a perfect picture of how "skilled" a player is, it's a pretty good indicator.

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but can a parser tell you if:-

• people are standing in the right positions?
• causing wipes?
• dying for no reason?
• dealing with adds alone while rest of the other DD care too much about their DPS on the boss (not doing thier job properly)?
• facing mobs the right way (again a positioning thing)?
• using skills properly?
• communicating with the group about relevant information?
• plays intelligently?
• reacts to the situation?
• person spams the limit break?
• suffered from a lag spike?
• running into AoE fields?
• a person has more knowledge/experience than others?

the answer is NO

there is way too much a parser cannot tell you relating to skill. Skill is not just determined by how much you can DD and how less damage you can take. if that was the case then PLDs and WARs make the worst skill ever. all a parser can tell you is a person knows how to mash the buttons in the correct order etc

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Originally Posted by choke

I'd still really like SE's official position on this issue. Are parsers allowed, or not?

I think both sides of the pro/anti dps parser can agree that we all want an answer, so whether you're pro/anti dps parsers, please like this post to show SE you'd like an official answer. :-D

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You're not going to get an answer because SE does not respond to ANY Tech posts whatsoever.

Based on a post in the General discussion forum about SweetFX and ENB Injector http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...FXIV-%28wip%29 , I'd suggest that anything that doesn't change the gameplay is not authorized but not actionable. It's on page 6

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Utilizing such a tool would not violate any agreements customers have with Square Enix, and we don't plan on doing anything to restrict users from accessing it.

However, we advise that players use this at their own risk. Square Enix does not regulate the content of the aforementioned add-on and will not be responsible for any damage or losses resulting from its use.

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Originally Posted by darkvision

but can a parser tell you if:-

• people are standing in the right positions?
• causing wipes?
• dying for no reason?
• dealing with adds alone while rest of the other DD care too much about their DPS on the boss (not doing thier job properly)?
• facing mobs the right way (again a positioning thing)?
• using skills properly?
• communicating with the group about relevant information?
• plays intelligently?
• reacts to the situation?
• person spams the limit break?
• suffered from a lag spike?
• running into AoE fields?
• a person has more knowledge/experience than others?

the answer is NO

there is way too much a parser cannot tell you relating to skill. Skill is not just determined by how much you can DD and how less damage you can take. if that was the case then PLDs and WARs make the worst skill ever. all a parser can tell you is a person knows how to mash the buttons in the correct order etc

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For all the rest, there are parsers.

First, some of you guys are acting like maximizing your potential using a parser takes a huge amount of time. It takes actually very little time, hell you could probably do one dungeon/raid and learn your best rotation. I figured out mine in 3 boss fights from just asking one of my party members how my numbers looked. From a tank perspective it is very helpful for me to know where I am standing which can range from 90dps(mobile fights) to 125dps(Stand there fights). I didn't even really spend any extra time figuring it out since I just asked my party member where I was and continue to do so from time to time to ensure I am putting in the most I can. So if I am doing a raid and someone pulls agro I can verify if-
1. I am slacking because I know where my numbers should be. or
2. The DPS just overrode my agro with some huge hits. This allows me to immediately correct the issue, either by telling the dps I was behind where I should have been on threat generation or they just need to watch it.

Parsers are incredible tools that give you a quick overview of a fight. Most of the people I have encountered in raids that do not approve of them are players who cant use abilities and move at the same time while dodging enemy abilities(Which drastically affects their performance though BLM Wouldn't be even a factor here) or overall don't have any sense of situational awareness. However with that being said, outside of raids parsers should not even be used except for personal improvement. I have never used a parser in the past on mmo's to belittle someone in a dungeon. People are there to gear up or farm, so you will have characters that just hit 50 and may or may not have figured out their class 100% yet.

If SE wants to make a smart move they should just implement it into the UI for 8m full FC party or 24m FC raids and not 4m light parties. Of course from a raid perspective you would need DPS/Heals/HPS/Overhealing/Damage Taken/Damage Done/Dispels cast. While other addons are nice, I don't think SE should allow them in game like wow did and opens up other issues(cheats). It made things too easy and took the challenge out by telling you where to walk and all.

I tried to answer these for you(In bold). Hope this helps ^-^

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Originally Posted by darkvision

but can a parser tell you if:-

• people are standing in the right positions? Answer: Sometimes you can determine by observing the Damage Taken and what ability hit said person standing in the wrong position, however this isn't the case most of the time. So no it can only tell you sometimes.
• causing wipes? Yes - By viewing Damage Taken you can easily determine what happened. Or if during a burn phase you can determine if someones DPS is too low.
• dying for no reason? yes - Damage Taken then review said ability that hit said person.
• dealing with adds alone while rest of the other DD care too much about their DPS on the boss (not doing thier job properly)? No, however the raid leader should obviously know.
• facing mobs the right way (again a positioning thing)? Yes, other people will take damage which will show up on damage taken where they shouldn't be.
• using skills properly? Depends what you are looking at I suppose.
• communicating with the group about relevant information? No
• plays intelligently? Yes - Intelligent player will sustain decent dps or healing throughout the fight and also avoid taking damage. Keep in mind, raid leader must determine other factors such as bard casting mana song or BLM having to move etc...
• reacts to the situation? Yes
• person spams the limit break? Yes however I am not 100% familiar with the FF parser being used. Though this is something the RL should take into account when observing the parser.
• suffered from a lag spike? no
• running into AoE fields? Yes - Said person will have much higher Damage Taken than others.
• a person has more knowledge/experience than others? No

the answer is not quite NO

there is way too much a parser can tell you relating to skill. Skill is not just determined by how much you can DD and how less damage you can take. if that was the case then PLDs and WARs make the worst skill ever. all a parser can tell you is a person knows how to mash the buttons in the correct order etc - you are wrong here. A parser can enlighten you on numerous things about said person be it how well they can move yet still sustain decent DPS or how much they may fail at move out of AOE and much much more. Keep in mind however a parser should not be used in a pug 4m light party setting as it is not necessary except for personal improvement.

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DPS Parsers are fine guys, making sure baddies don't get carried with their subpar DPS in harder fights supersedes the TOS.

Greetings all,

We appreciate you taking the time to voice your concerns regarding the use of DPS Parsers to us. However, the technical support forums are designated for players to assist other players with technical issues they are experiencing. Since this is not a technical issue I will be closing this particular thread. We welcome you to start a discussion on DPS Parsers in a more appropriate section of the forums. Thank you!