XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

You can just see HiirNoivl and Lhun's mind's melting in this thread... unable to grasp situations and context outside their immediate surroundings, trying to make points that have already been blatantly and preemptively contradicted by the original post which is supported by simple logic and math. Love how they throw in personal conclusions based neither facts or testing, but on wild theories in their head supported by delusions of self importance and grandeur.

Using every CD at your disposal perfectly along with the best possible gear in game at the moment will not net you the returns of a straight 20% damage reduction. While talking about raids and end game content and current scaling of incoming boss dmg vs outgoing player dmg: there's a wall, as long as mechanics stay the same, Paladin will always be noticeably superior progression tanks, while Warriors (depending on gear/content level) will generally be the superior "Farm Status" tank.

This is a problem for most players who rolled a Warrior and want to be involved with end game content.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

So here we go over 5 minutes:

26000 from Inner Beast if you don't crit once in 4 times, say.
5000 HP Absolute MINIMUM total from bloodbath (I get usually more by optimizing combos and crits)
3000 from Thrill of Battle minimum (it's based on total hp)
1500 from Second Wind MINIMUM if you NEVER crit. You WILLcrit at least once in 4 times, ESPECIALLY if you use internal release.

Which is 35500 healed WHILE doing damage to the mob in the process. In JUST Self heals in JUST 5 minutes. I'm being conservative! The numbers are usually much higher! Go look at a parser!

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Lhun, war self heals are all fine and dandy when one is overgeared and doing trash content.

Heck, one doesn't even use it because there's often no need. I see you think they'll be useful endgame, but you have a green weapon, lvl 45 AF gear and lvl 40's accesories. You're probably finding AK to be a workout, and are probably trying Ifrit, but haven't done it enough to have gotten a blue weapon yet, or even gotten a kill. Perhaps you haven't gotten there at all yet. I remember, because I got my ass handed to me as a fresh 50, and self-heals still made a dent.

Get to Titan and Coil, and get your ass handed to you with 1200 damage on average each second. See how pitiful bloodbath is. You might stop using it, because, what's the point? It's like peeing to fill up a swimming pool. Damage taken scales up way more than the damage you do. Wanna buff up STR like Hiir so that your damage scales better? You'll get your ass pounded like a schoolgirl in a morbol hentai flick with the sacrifices you'll have to make. Parry it up with +parry and dex? Lawl. See how you take out Storm's path out of your bar because 50-100 healed on a 7k health pool every 25 seconds doesn't warrant the TP cost of SP. You think you'll be able to heal 26k with IB by using it every time it's up? You'll hang on to your wrath 5 like it's dear life, because the 15% extra healing it gives your healers will keep you alive and will net you much more healing than the heal you'll get from IB, so you'll only pop it when infuriate is up, or after a big hit like mountain buster.

BTW, you're forgetting that some of your self heals will end up as useless overhealing. It's inevitable. Every point of damage mitigated by a pally via shield oath, sentinel, hallowed, or whatever is 100% efficient.

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I'm not even going to get into the fact that simply curing us gets a bonus too, you can use the NO TP free attack "Mercy Stroke" on environmental objects and mob adds like Titan's Heart/Nail/garuda to gain an instant 1100HP minimum (if you're good you can do this with regularity)...
You can use stun+holmgang, to prevent all damage for over 12 seconds. You can prevent all damage for over 5 seconds on most bosses every 30 seconds.

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Have you tried to regularly get the last hit on a mob with a 200 potency attack in an 8 man party with 4 dps who do much more damage than you and aren't pulling back at the end so that you can get in the last hit? Have you tried using stun and holmgang on bosses? They're inmune. Stun serves as an interrupt, and Holmgang is a gimmick skill you use on the wall or trash.

Lhun sorry but the things you stated are BS. It seems to me you lack real experience with what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

Also, if you shield block, you do NOT proc the chance to parry. If you unequipped a shield, you parry more, because first game checks for:

Chance to block: Yes/No Yes? Block. Parry does not happen.

Chance to block: Yes/No No? => Chance to Parry yes/no? No? => Chance to dodge yes/no? no? => Chance for mob crit you? Yes/no ?
Those things happen in that order. IF any of those things go off first, NONE OF THE THINGS UNDER HAPPEN.

So no shield, first thing that happens, is chance to parry. War gets big Parry+. Think about it.

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By a huge margin, this is my favorite post in this thread. His own explanation shows why he's wrong. its teh best.

Ps, Lhum: Holy Shiled +1 wearing just full darklight (no piotns in dex or str accessories or anything of the kidn) blocks 26% when it procs. Trolololololololololololol.

OP: Love it, great work, sad days.

To the person wariror tankign Turn 1: Vid please. I really want to see this.

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OH! RIGHT!!! PPS: Luhn, paladin has mercy stroke too :>

Noob question but does mantra work for WAR self heals?

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Originally Posted by Tenebrisme

Noob question but does mantra work for WAR self heals?

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It's a good question. But no, the Increased healing from Mantra, (and Convalescence and Wrath stacks) does not increase healing from WAR self heals.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

snip.

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Hachiko, I have seen countless claims made in these forums about relative dps of both classes while tanking (and thus while warrior is also under its damage reduction buff).

Have you done any math on relative dps between the two classes?

Of course assuming the pld is also using fracture.

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Originally Posted by dandelions

You can just see HiirNoivl and Lhun's mind's melting in this thread... unable to grasp situations and context outside their immediate surroundings, trying to make points that have already been blatantly and preemptively contradicted by the original post which is supported by simple logic and math. Love how they throw in personal conclusions based neither facts or testing, but on wild theories in their head supported by delusions of self importance and grandeur.

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guess what, those 2 are in my ignore list since a long time ago from other topics, I just wonder why ppl are wasting their time with them.

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This means that now instead of mitigating 70 DPS you're mitigating 75 DPS. But instead of having 7200 HP you now have 6200 HP.

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That's not how it works. With enough dedication (farm and stuff) you can get both. WAR need crafted DPS accessories overmelded more than any other job.
I agree that this whole thing in itself is a huge hit in our face but I had to make this point.

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Originally Posted by Kaalan

That's not how it works. With enough dedication (farm and stuff) you can get both. WAR need crafted DPS accessories overmelded more than any other job.
I agree that this whole thing in itself is a huge hit in our face but I had to make this point.

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Yea but that is only to get very slight gains in tanking - it does not make it so you can compete with a normally geared paladin.

Wanna play Warrior?

Buy crafted gear - overmeld it - perfect your rotations for every possible situation, and then live with the fact that a Paladin can do just as well, if not better than you, without all the extra effort.