Please no more Eureka!

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Originally Posted by Leanna

Everyone keeps saying the same but I don't see how the existence of Eureka prevents you from socializing with other players in any other content. SE didn't remove the chat from the game, when I go to Eureka for whatever reason, shout is only people asking questions, asking for ress and not much else, I don't see where is the enhanced socialization in Eureka that everyone talks about. I see more people talking in dungeons/raids/cities than in Eureka.

And people complaining about run older content when the only thing that Eureka offers is grind the same mob for hours and run from Fate to Fate all the time, I don't know what is wrong with you. When friends who bothered with light farm say they grinded dragons in Pagos for 8 hours everyday for a week for just one weapon, and the random stats of Pyros, I don't see how this makes Eureka any good that do older content that you wouldn't do again otherwise.

Really looking for someone to explain and elaborate on this (not you stalker and princess), because it really baffles me how can people defend this over other stuff that gives more activities to do and this "Eureka is the socialization paradise".

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I can only speak for myself and my experience. But whenever i enter a roulette dungeon, me and many others just expect a smooth and clear run. People dont even find the time to say hi, why even bother to chat when you know, right after the dungeon, you wont even meet that person ever again. Even if you end up adding each other through "contacts", I believe that Eureka is an instance that forges people. Not even a 24man raid can do such a thing, because you dont have to rely on others.
The progress of leveling, dying, helping with rezed, the dangerous situations you can get in (and be one shotted) and exchanging information does indeed give a better opportunity to befriend with others. But its not only about befriending, but rather the large scale interaction between other players.
Am not sure if any of you guys joined the eureka discord, but I can tell that everyone has been posting and adding any valuable information when hydatos came out. It was really fun exploring a new map.

And you know running alexander savage 100 times to get the light stage done doesnt give much variety either.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

And you know running alexander savage 100 times to get the light stage done doesnt give much variety either.

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It does, because I didn't run it once to get my light.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

The progress of leveling, dying, helping with rezed, the dangerous situations you can get in (and be one shotted) and exchanging information does indeed give a better opportunity to befriend with others. But its not only about befriending, but rather the large scale interaction between other players.

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It just happened, because waiting with the Fate Train for Fates was so boring, that people started to use the Ingame Chat to talk about things while being more or less AFK. With Topics like "Who is the best Jojo?", "Best type of Pizza", etc.

In things like Savage, Primals, Dungeons etc. people do not want to Chat, because they want to play the fights and not start to talk about the best type of Pizza for 20 Minutes, before starting.
Or said in other Words: They are busy playing the Game, instead of waiting and chatting.

It is a bit questionable if that is a good or a bad thing.
Imagine you just want to get a fast clear in a Dungeon before you need to log of and the Tank suddenly starts to talk about a Pasta recipes for 10 Minutes.

Raubahn Savage also made the people use the Chat and it is not like people say "Man, I wish I could wait in that line for 3 Hours again.".

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

And you know running alexander savage 100 times to get the light stage done doesnt give much variety either.

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No one points a gun at your head and tells you "Go do Savage ONLY!" That it is fast doesn't mean it is the only way. I did the DRK relic recently, I only wanted the Sharpened Guillotine but I did up until Lux because why not? And I did Cronus while doing dungeons for BLU skills for some friends.

That was recently, back then I did Savage for MNK and SCH because I wanted them asap, but for the MCH relic I did other stuff because I didn't want to rush it.

You know, because one option is faster doesn't mean it is the only, and that depends of what people wants to do and how. More options is never bad, reduce everything to one option is.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Which are unique to Eureka because?

They could literally design FATEs like that in the open world that you have to do for Relic quests. Much like with the 2 Relic Trials from ARR.

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1) fates are not unique to eureka, but eureka gathers all the people who need to do these fates as a starting point, open world fates in ffxiv overworld are not post max level content, 60% of the players in northern thanalan are not there for chimera, and a max level charachter gets little benefit doing this fate.

2)current atma farm does not require less fates for all 13 jobs, its not guaranteed per fate, and each weapon needs 13 or 12 stones thats 26 fates assuming 50% drop rate. per weapon, the anemos step requires 357 anemos crystals on average. thats going to be overall a similar level of fates. the difference is, this is the starting point, instead of the nerfed grind 3 years after the weapon is released, and the anemos weapon takes you from 290-355 for 25-30 fates, whereas the original relic takes you from 80 to 90 for that grind. and lets be honest it was way more fates. atma farm is not even close to 1/3 of the relic process.

3) new boss fates with new monsters and new mechanics are not old content. a new dungeon is not old content just because it is a dungeon.

4) except at this point they already have many flashy weapons, any new relic will no longer be the flashiest weapon, they got 2 flashy zodiac 3-4 flashy anima, 3 versions of flashy eureka, flashy primal weapons, flashy potd weapons. Im not even using the final eureka weapon's model. If you want to do regular stormblood content for a weapon, tomestone fills that, if you want to get a flashy weapon, its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released.

5) progressing raids is one flavor of content that is already well rewarded, why would they put even more rewards of the same type in the same content? doing regular dungeon content is already the meat and potatoes. It makes sense to reward something different equally, to get people to whom the other two methods do not appeal.

6) light is obtained also through effeciently killing specific monsters, as well as fates, if pretty ineffecient to do nothing while waiting for fates for light. Basically by mastering the knowledge and abilities of eureka, you see greater gains. strategy and planning, and knowledge of the monsters and area is a key part of the design of eureka, and thus timely relic completion. And fighting one dragon is more entertaining than spamming tam tara solo to me.


the fates in eureka require partipation, unless your party carries you.

aoe spam killing is not effecient for anything in eureka, other than spawning low level fates, its extremely common in dungeons though. Most of my eureka progress was with 2-4 players, so my personal contribution was always important to progress.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

Can you explain me how is any different do Fates in Eureka or anywhere else? Because in Diadem you had all the Fates you wanted and more. Let's not call Eureka a different experience because it isn't anything more than a mindless grind of mobs and Fates which can be found anywhere else in the game. And really, there isn't anything gamebreaking in Eureka that you can't do elsewhere, it's open world concentrated in a smaller map where mobs populate the 99% of the map and you have +10 Fates.

And for people who has all the content up to date, there is really nothing to do in the game, only PvP which has infinite replay value (which is what I'm doing atm since there is nothing to do but PvP).

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in eureka i can tank on monk, i can do 1000% damage with boost, i can raise my dead friends. i can reflect all magic attacks and make monster's kill themselves. I can have 45/60 second uptime on a 80% bloodweapon. Its more dangerous, where a single add can kill you, and you literally have to metal gear past monsters to finish quests.

yes most content in the game is fighting monsters and bosses. if new means not fighting monsters and bosses for a relic weapon, i think most players will be very salty.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

Everyone keeps saying the same but I don't see how the existence of Eureka prevents you from socializing with other players in any other content. SE didn't remove the chat from the game, when I go to Eureka for whatever reason, shout is only people asking questions, asking for ress and not much else, I don't see where is the enhanced socialization in Eureka that everyone talks about. I see more people talking in dungeons/raids/cities than in Eureka.

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Maybe the data centers for the people who do love Eureka have their shout chat more alive than any open world map and instance. That's the case in Aether data center. You have people organizing spawns of NMs and socializing more than any other instance.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

And people complaining about run older content when the only thing that Eureka offers is grind the same mob for hours and run from Fate to Fate all the time, I don't know what is wrong with you. When friends who bothered with light farm say they grinded dragons in Pagos for 8 hours everyday for a week for just one weapon, and the random stats of Pyros, I don't see how this makes Eureka any good that do older content that you wouldn't do again otherwise.

Really looking for someone to explain and elaborate on this (not you stalker and princess), because it really baffles me how can people defend this over other stuff that gives more activities to do and this "Eureka is the socialization paradise".

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If someone decided to chain mobs from level 1-60 without doing anything else, then it’s their fault for finding the content boring. Pagos aside, the other three zones are a breeze to do and finish. And if someone tried just chaining for light in Pyros instead of the faster way, which is reflecting, it is also their fault for finding it tedious.

And there is a difference between running an instance like A1s for example when farming light, where you do the same thing over and over again, and going to an instance where you pretty much have the freedom to do the things you want to progress. In A1s, you start, kill the same trash mob first then the boss after. As for Eureka it's like doing maps. Both have you traveling to different spots killing monsters and you get rewarded and sometimes you get really nice rare rewards. And there is also the sense of danger (which is why you shouldn't go solo unless you know what you're doing), which a lot of those that like Eureka enjoy. The dungeons and open world fates do not have that.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

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The existence of the Eurekan explorers discord is a proof enough of how the community is socializing to figure out how things work in each zone.

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Originally Posted by Imuka

It just happened, because waiting with the Fate Train for Fates was so boring, that people started to use the Ingame Chat to talk about things while being more or less AFK. With Topics like "Who is the best Jojo?", "Best type of Pizza", etc.

In things like Savage, Primals, Dungeons etc. people do not want to Chat, because they want to play the fights and not start to talk about the best type of Pizza for 20 Minutes, before starting.
Or said in other Words: They are busy playing the Game, instead of waiting and chatting.

It is a bit questionable if that is a good or a bad thing.
Imagine you just want to get a fast clear in a Dungeon before you need to log of and the Tank suddenly starts to talk about a Pasta recipes for 10 Minutes.

Raubahn Savage also made the people use the Chat and it is not like people say "Man, I wish I could wait in that line for 3 Hours again.".

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he isnt talking about random chats, he is talking about that time you died on the way to the quest alone, and you sent a shout hoping somebody might save you 1/4rth your experience bar. Or the time you were across the map, and got to the fate when it was 50% completed and had to bust your ass dpsing and avoiding tricky attacks to get full credit. Or the time you found that hot light party, and got 5 lights in 20 minutes. Or when your group decided to go out and pop the NMs while leveling on killing mobs, and got a great routine going for spawning fates. Or when you finally got a group killing things 6 levels higher than your group and zoomed exp super fast. When you risk your life to raise some one, because you feel for the exp loss.

thats not to say this can never happen anywhere else, you see parts of it in certain communities and certain content, but yeah, eureka is a different experience for those who like it, that you dont get in other places in ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Physic

1) fates are not unique to eureka, but eureka gathers all the people who need to do these fates as a starting point, open world fates in ffxiv overworld are not post max level content, 60% of the players in northern thanalan are not there for chimera, and a max level charachter gets little benefit doing this fate.

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So would any overworld content that was required to do Relics.

Literally, we have The Lochs which is a level 69-70 zone where ALL FATEs there are level 69.

I honestly don't see how this is drastically different to Eureka and its content that is based around level 70's... That also have secondary Elemental Levels causing a rift between players... Magia board being restricted behind Elemental Levels in Anemos... And Lologram obtaining...

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Originally Posted by Physic

2)current atma farm does not require less fates for all 13 jobs, its not guaranteed per fate, and each weapon needs 13 or 12 stones thats 26 fates assuming 50% drop rate.

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It does.

Source: I ground out all 13 jobs worth of Atma in a few hours.

It took me several days of grinding FATEs in Anemos to get my single Axe done. Especially when the lower elemental level FATEs give pathetic rewards and FATEs like Pizzazuzu take excessive amounts of time to make spawn and then complete.

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Originally Posted by Physic

3) new boss fates with new monsters and new mechanics are not old content. a new dungeon is not old content just because it is a dungeon.

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So you're saying that Eureka isn't necessary for new content.

Isn't that undermining the argument that Eureka is good if it can be recreated without creating a whole new zone to put into the game?

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Originally Posted by Physic

4) except at this point they already have many flashy weapons, any new relic will no longer be the flashiest weapon, they got 2 flashy zodiac 3-4 flashy anima, 3 versions of flashy eureka, flashy primal weapons, flashy potd weapons. Im not even using the final eureka weapon's model. If you want to do regular stormblood content for a weapon, tomestone fills that, if you want to get a flashy weapon, its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released.

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This again undermines your argument.

Why bother even having Eureka if the main content tied to it isn't unique. Heck, you're not even using the primary reward for the content.

Also, me having flashy weapons doesn't mean I don't want to get the new flashy weapon that's part of the new expansion.

I collect Relic weapons, I'm in the process of collecting all the Zodiac and Anima weapons and if Eureka wasn't such butt content that to do efficiently requires FATE Trains, I'd be collecting all the Eureka weapons too.

Tomestone weapons to not fill this same role. Spending a couple of weeks Tomestone caps on a weapon that's boring and not flashy is not the same as undertaking an epic grind to build a flashy cool weapon alongside the story.

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Originally Posted by Physic

5) progressing raids is one flavor of content that is already well rewarded, why would they put even more rewards of the same type in the same content? doing regular dungeon content is already the meat and potatoes. It makes sense to reward something different equally, to get people to whom the other two methods do not appeal.

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Because the reward in question is one that is used by all kinds of players. As such, it should be implemented so that all kinds of players can work on it.

The primary reason to go to Eureka is to earn the Relic weapon. The secondary reasons are other items such as hairstyles and mounts. The tertiary reason is the story for the place.

This is not good design. Since it's tying stuff that should be for everyone, provided they put the effort into grinding it, behind specific content that's trying to aim for other players.

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Originally Posted by Physic

6) light is obtained also through effeciently killing specific monsters, as well as fates, if pretty ineffecient to do nothing while waiting for fates for light. Basically by mastering the knowledge and abilities of eureka, you see greater gains. strategy and planning, and knowledge of the monsters and area is a key part of the design of eureka, and thus timely relic completion. And fighting one dragon is more entertaining than spamming tam tara solo to me.

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None of this seems unique.

Also, you didn't need to spam Tam-Tara solo. You could have done Alexander, Coils of Bahamut, EX Trials etc. To get Light.

Just because you CHOSE to farm Tam-Tara solo, didn't mean you HAD to. Again, previous Relics had CHOICE in much of their grinds. You could do any Tomestone earning content to get the currency to buy items. You could do FATEs, Dungeons or Raids (Both soloing old ones like Tam-Tara, or grouping for current content ones) to earn Light. Literally, you could FATE Train just like Eureka to earn your light.

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Originally Posted by Physic

the fates in eureka require partipation, unless your party carries you.

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Which they often will because it's often part of a FATE Train.

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Originally Posted by Physic

aoe spam killing is not effecient for anything in eureka, other than spawning low level fates, its extremely common in dungeons though. Most of my eureka progress was with 2-4 players, so my personal contribution was always important to progress.

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Meanwhile, in order to maximize efficiency, you FATE Train. Which waters down personal contribution.

Again, here you chose to do 2-4 player content instead of taking the most efficient path so you had more fun. Meanwhile, you previously chose to take the most efficient route with previous Relics and went Tam-Tara farming and had less fun.

This is nothing new.

Also, I'm not against Eureka as a whole. If it can be created simultaneously to other content without diverting resources away from things I like to do, then it literally has no impact on me.

Unless they tie the expansions Relic behind it. Which is an idea that can sod off.

If you just want to earn something at the end of your Eureka content, why not put something else there? Maybe something that would actually do something in Eureka (Since given the item level sync, upgrading your Relic does nothing)

Heck, if you're doing Eureka for the content why not give Eureka a boring old 390 item level weapon at the end? I mean, "its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released" right?

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

And there is a difference between running an instance like A1s for example when farming light, where you do the same thing over and over again, and going to an instance where you pretty much have the freedom to do the things you want to progress. In A1s, you start, kill the same trash mob first then the boss after. As for Eureka it's like doing maps. Both have you traveling to different spots killing monsters and you get rewarded and sometimes you get really nice rare rewards. And there is also the sense of danger (which is why you shouldn't go solo unless you know what you're doing), which a lot of those that like Eureka enjoy. The dungeons and open world fates do not have that.

The existence of the Eurekan explorers discord is a proof enough of how the community is socializing to figure out how things work in each zone.

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Again since you seem to be unable to read:

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Originally Posted by Leanna

No one points a gun at your head and tells you "Go do Savage ONLY!" That it is fast doesn't mean it is the only way. I did the DRK relic recently, I only wanted the Sharpened Guillotine but I did up until Lux because why not? And I did Cronus while doing dungeons for BLU skills for some friends.

That was recently, back then I did Savage for MNK and SCH because I wanted them asap, but for the MCH relic I did other stuff because I didn't want to rush it.

You know, because one option is faster doesn't mean it is the only, and that depends of what people wants to do and how. More options is never bad, reduce everything to one option is.

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Where is the gun pointing at your head?

And the Eurekan explorers is the result of hidden mechanics, it could have happened in discord or anywhere else, like, you know, people has been gathering in places to share information since videogames are... videogames. Before in wikias, now on discord. It is a source of information more than anything.

And again since you are bad at reading, the people who had to do 8h everyday for a week of dragon farm for the lights of one relic, they were doing it for one relic, not to go from 1 to 60 in Pagos. In that time you can clear Ultimate or whatever.

If this stuff exists in Eureka and not in the open world it's because SE is lazy and also needs a place to "experiment", this could fit in the open world perfectly, make some areas of the map more dangerous, etc, etc. There is a lot that can be done, go with Eureka and call it a day is lazyness at best, there are millions of ways of implement the "good" things about Eureka (if they even exist) in the open world and millions of things they can do.

Conform with a small map for 140 people is just lazy and not very ambitious.

Eureka is, after all, open world content (old) concentrated in a smaller place with limitations. And let's not get crazy over logo actions because the 90% of them are worthless and will hardly be used by anyone who just wants to do the content and be over with it.