"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by Denji

Temper tantrum? Nah bro I'm laughing the entire time.

Typically I wait until after the 1st boss and if they continue to pull then I ask them to not. If they continue after the 2nd boss then I just let them "tank" the third set of trash pulls while informing them of the prohibited activities article.

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thats uh quite toxic dude. while you quoting the article, you yourself are breaching it. easier to just tank it and get out of the run then bring up contacts and add them to your blacklist so you never run with them again

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

I'm a relatively new player, but for what it's worth, I've just always thought it was both common courtesy and common sense to let the tank lead. Not just for the sake of a smooth run, but out of consideration for the tank, who may or may not be comfortable enough with a duty for wall-to-wall pulls (no matter how easy some players may find the content in question, everyone starts somewhere).

That said, I think if a tank stonewalls the party for daring to pull ahead, that's tantamount to griefing. Of course I also believe whoever pulled first should lead the mob to their tank if they do insist on running ahead, but all things being equal, everyone should cooperate as best they can.

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this 100%. this is the exact type of player i love tos ee

if dps are being incredibly rude and pushing past the tank they kind of deserve it.
The tanks job isn't really to be an enabler for someone acting like a jerk

Failure is an important teacher

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Originally Posted by Nihility

if dps are being incredibly rude and pushing past the tank they kind of deserve it.
The tanks job isn't really to be an enabler for someone acting like a jerk

Failure is an important teacher

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If a tank is being incredibly rude and not going at a pace that the rest of the party is comfortable with then they kind of deserve it.
The rest of the parties job isn't really to be an enabler for someone acting like a jerk and needlessly slowing everyone down.

Failure is in an important teacher

- This isn't a hard thing to twist in any single direction to put the "blame" on any singular person in the group. It's a group game and the party is not obligated to wait for the tank to get their shit together. 2dps and a healer can kill mob packs one at a time with no tank anyway. There's literally no purpose in having a tank if they don't double pull.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

If a tank is being incredibly rude and not going at a pace that the rest of the party is comfortable with then they kind of deserve it.
The rest of the parties job isn't really to be an enabler for someone acting like a jerk and needlessly slowing everyone down.

Failure is in an important teacher

- This isn't a hard thing to twist in any single direction to put the "blame" on any singular person in the group. It's a group game and the party is not obligated to wait for the tank to get their shit together. 2dps and a healer can kill mob packs one at a time with no tank anyway. There's literally no purpose in having a tank if they don't double pull.

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problem is you didn't twist it at all, you just sound petty.
Dungeons are designed with people of all skill levels in mind, a tank that isn't comfortable and only pulling one group at a time is literally doing what the developers intended to be done and not doing anything wrong at all. In fact a new tank that pulls everything and doesn't understand proper cooldown rotations and dies will be causing far more problems than one that pulls less at a time

Not everyone is immediately at "pull everything possible" level and dps going outside their role and forcing it upon the tank is clearly in the wrong unless an agreement was made in advance

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Originally Posted by Xirean

If a tank is being incredibly rude and not going at a pace that the rest of the party is comfortable with then they kind of deserve it.
The rest of the parties job isn't really to be an enabler for someone acting like a jerk and needlessly slowing everyone down.

Failure is in an important teacher

- This isn't a hard thing to twist in any single direction to put the "blame" on any singular person in the group. It's a group game and the party is not obligated to wait for the tank to get their shit together. 2dps and a healer can kill mob packs one at a time with no tank anyway. There's literally no purpose in having a tank if they don't double pull.

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on the same coin the Tank isn't obligated to play the same as the rest of the party either, which actrually incourages letting them die. If its true for one side its true FOR BOTH period lol



Something everyone forgets noone here is obiligated to owe one party or another anything we choice rather we grant you the pleasure or not.

thats why its importent to treat people how you want to be treated, So If you kill yourself running in then yell at your tank for not saving you don't go reporting when someone does it to you period. if you want kindness and understand you are obligated to give that to the people your around, if you don't you desever whatever you get.

Honestly if I was a mod I would look at how people are treating the person, and honestly in 6/10 cases id probably ban the people who pushed the person that far. I would look at gaslighting that seems to be going on towards alot of people, and if i found people were gaslighting not only would the person be scot free and they get banned id give that person 1mil for putting up with it that far. Also I would look at how the people reporting treat others when I decide rather to listen to their report or not.

Everyone acting like it’s all about the tank in some form or another. All a tank has to do is spam their aoe. A decent tank will use cool downs and a good tank knows how to rotate their mitigations.

No matter the type of tank, it’s the healer keeping them alive. Mitigation. No mitigation. Dodge. Don’t dodge. Fail at mechanics. All on the healer. Suck it up tanks and push your aoe. Your job isn’t hard

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Originally Posted by Nihility

problem is you didn't twist it at all, you just sound petty.
Dungeons are designed with people of all skill levels in mind, a tank that isn't comfortable and only pulling one group at a time is literally doing what the developers intended to be done and not doing anything wrong at all. In fact a new tank that pulls everything and doesn't understand proper cooldown rotations and dies will be causing far more problems than one that pulls less at a time

Not everyone is immediately at "pull everything possible" level and dps going outside their role and forcing it upon the tank is clearly in the wrong unless an agreement was made in advance

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Which is why it is up to all members of the party and not a singular one. If the tank wants to go slow but the rest want to go fast and the tank doesn't then the tank is the problem. If the dps/healer pull more and only the tank has a problem with that then the tank is the problem. Everyone has a say in how the run goes and the majority opinion of that party is what matters in the moment. I've been in my fare share of parties that genuinely just wanted go slow so I pulled less as a tank because they asked and for no other reason. I was effectively outvoted and I have the ability to accept that in the moment. However, the vast majority of the parties I have encountered / heard about want the run to go at a 2 pack pull pace at minimum. There's always ways to make it go faster but that is rarely expected. Double pulls is by far the standard.

I also find your explanation of tank cooldown rotation quite odd. You don't need a single mitigation to survive single pack pulls as a tank. Thus my earlier statement of dps being able to handle it themselves. It's not even a threat. A tank not knowing "proper cooldown rotation" is really only a factor of how much work the healer will have to do. Quite frankly I'd have more respect for the tank that does double pulls but doesn't know optimized cooldown usage. At least they are actually trying.

Edit: Also if you think my earlier response sounds petty then congratulations, because that's exactly what your original statement sounds like.

double pull it is

thats not always wall to wall either. there are players with several tanks or a lvl 80+ tank and single pulling in low lvl dungeons even though they dont get any dmg

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Originally Posted by Nihility

if dps are being incredibly rude and pushing past the tank they kind of deserve it.
The tanks job isn't really to be an enabler for someone acting like a jerk

Failure is an important teacher

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Its only rood if tank asked them not to do it, or tank Obviously(low gear/low skill) not able to keep up with the task. If tank able to tank pulled pack and not doing it on purpose, in order to "teach" someone how to play - its rude. Plus saying in chat insults like "you pull - you tank" - double rude.