The Current Status of FFXIV Patch 3.1 and How to Address it Moving Forward

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Originally Posted by Belhi

3. The devs have very clearly stated the entire Artifact system exists only for Legion and will be abandoned in the next expansion, returning to the original weapon system. There will be no follow up. As unsatisfying as the FF14 relic quests are to a lot of people, at least the continuation credited you for what you had done with relics in the past.

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I didn't know this. That turns me off even more (not that I would have ever touched WoW with a 10-foot pole again, though).

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Of course for me the biggest issue with legion is I cant stand Blizzards storytelling.

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I can't either. I've always felt that Metzen basically had one good idea: the rise and fall of Arthas. It was that story that cemented Warcraft as a modern fantasy powerhouse (and I've always felt, a huge part of why WoW's success was so meteoric up through Wrath of the Lich King). The story has been a mess ever since then (and it was honestly a mess at a lot of points prior to that, with the space pirate blood elves and shoehorning Draenei in, and so on).

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Originally Posted by Kallera

After the video from the letter of the producer, what are everyone's thoughts? I myself did not see it, but I read the notes, and am in a wait and see approach with 3.2, but there is nothing that's really grabbed my attention.

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It has dyable Allagan and High Allagan gear. That's...honestly all I need until 3.25 when the next Anima stage is released. >.>;

I wish they would have talked a bit more about the item level structure and Midas (Savage) in general, though—ultimately, outside of content drought, reward structures and difficulty are the root of many of the game's problems right now, and it would have been nice to have more concrete ideas of where they were taking things.

I'm happy about the tank change, which was long overdue, but somewhat sad that it seems we're going back to multi-job sets for Tomestone gear (at least, judging by the pictures they showed in the Developer's Blog).

You can glamour your weapons anyway, for the most part they're almost aesthetic in the weapon type; a Fire Mage using a sword is functionally not any more different than a fire mage using a staff.

I haven't checked the updates lately, but iirc you can change your relic path before level cap (versus getting a second one).

I also do not recall them explicitly saying that the artifact weapon is only for this expansion. If it was, then that's really a silly design to put as a form of character progression that's only present for levels 100-110.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You can glamour your weapons anyway, for the most part they're almost aesthetic in the weapon type; a Fire Mage using a sword is functionally not any more different than a fire mage using a staff.

I haven't checked the updates lately, but iirc you can change your relic path before level cap (versus getting a second one).

I also do not recall them explicitly saying that the artifact weapon is only for this expansion. If it was, then that's really a silly design to put as a form of character progression that's only present for levels 100-110.

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You can glamour your weapon but only to the same type. If your a fire mage who doesn't like swords your kind of screwed. I don't consider this a minor thing as character aesthetic is pretty important in MMOs.

You can still only have one artefact before hitting 110. This means you cant effectively use more than one spec while levelling.

They have repeatedly said that the artefact is a legion only feature. It won't carry over to the next expac. Kosak even said they might make some ingame story reason explaining that your relic's power is drained or destroyed at the end of the expansion to explain why you don't continue using it (though I wont hold my breath since storywise Blizzard rarely bothers to explain stuff).

The artifacts are really functionally only just another talent tree, though one you can get everything on eventually. They don't even really allow for customisation beyond appearance. Everyone is going to max them out eventually. It would be better to look at them as an alternate advancement system rather than equipable weapon. You will still need to collect and equip items that give the artefact its actual ilvl.

They've loosened up the glamour restrictions last I remember: you'd be able to glamour a sword into a mace or axe so as long as your class can use the latter. Same with hunter weapons in regards to the three types of ranged wraponry

The alternate advancement is also why I wouldn't put it in the same vein as Ffxiv relic, or even legendaries within the same game. I can't do much sleuthing for info on he phone, but being unable to change your weapon ( and thus, your effectiveness in a spec) before max level seems to be a full *180 to what they've previously said, though at the same time developer words should really be taken with a grain of salt until it's actual release with how things have been lately

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

- Creating these weapons will require you to put in effort over a longer period of time.


Thats the true issue with Relics.

This concept derives into 2 mayor problems.

1.- You CAN`T trade skills for time. Literally, you can`t compare the effort to beat a raid with the effert to go through a mindless boring grind. No amount of time will ever become a challenge, time is not "difficulty".

2.- The reward isn`t worth it and its badly targeted. Relics are supposed to be "catch up weapons". Easier to obtain raid weapon for catching up content.

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That's what you want relics to be, but not what they are. Relics are, straight up, an attempt to appeal to a small minority of the playerbase from FFXI that missed grinding for hours on end to get an item that they can point to and say "Yeah... I got that. It took me forever, but I did," as well as to the majority of the playerbase that won't step foot into Alexander Savage until it's old content. Relics are bragging rights.

Relics are also for people that, as Yoshi-P said, aren't looking for "Challenging" or "Hard" content. They're looking to spend time in Eorzea, and this is something they can spend time doing. It's something you can do socially... that's why the things involved are fates and normal dungeons, not Alexander Savage and EX Primals. It's something you don't need a lot of skill to do, because the target audience isn't one that likes to crunch numbers to figure out the optimal rotation, or one who agonizes over which food gives them that critical 1-2% edge in damage. The target audience just wants to put effort into something that gives them a trophy to show off. The ilvl is important, as it DOES give players a weapon that's relevant to the endgame... not because they're the kind of players that enjoy the endgame, but because they're the kind of players that are likely in smaller FCs or more social FCs and may be called upon to step into those endgame fights because they're needed, not because they want to. And, should they change their minds and find that they DO want to do the endgame, they'll have a relevant weapon with which to do it until they can get a raid drop. But relics are the "easier path" for such people because, without the relic, they would never be geared enough to step foot into Alexander Savage in the first place.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The alternate advancement is also why I wouldn't put it in the same vein as Ffxiv relic, or even legendaries within the same game. I can't do much sleuthing for info on he phone, but being unable to change your weapon ( and thus, your effectiveness in a spec) before max level seems to be a full *180 to what they've previously said, though at the same time developer words should really be taken with a grain of salt until it's actual release with how things have been lately

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My source on the info on the WoW artefact comes from people in the Legion Alpha and developer responses. Still my comment on mages still applies. The game actually tells you when you unlock your artefact at 100 that you wont be able to get another till endgame.

Regardless, your right. Artifacts aren't the same as relics in FF14.

I think relic should last through the whole game, upgrades in savage, upgrades outside savage but less value on stats and upgrade on relic. Maybe that will make people want to raid more?
Currently relic takes more time to get than actually having a use of it. The people who got their relic before 3.2 or way before, have no use of it. And I talk ACTUALL use. Why make people get a weapon that barely getting used for anything good/decent?

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Originally Posted by CatfishCassie

That's what you want relics to be, but not what they are. Relics are, straight up, an attempt to appeal to a small minority of the playerbase from FFXI that missed grinding for hours on end to get an item that they can point to and say "Yeah... I got that. It took me forever, but I did," as well as to the majority of the playerbase that won't step foot into Alexander Savage until it's old content. Relics are bragging rights.

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No it's not. People who did relic in FFXI and I talk about MOST of the people that actually played FFXI, like myself, know's there is no braggin rights about relic in FF14, you can disagree with me which is fine, but there is NO braggin rights. Just because you have time doesn't mean you beat hard content, hell even used half of brain to do it. Most people who obtains relic(s) often put netflix on a second screen or playing something else while doing it, is that braggin rights?
Put something like dynamis in FF14, not excactly like how it was in FF11, but something similar, and I bet most people wanna do it, even the hardcore players. Dynamsis was fun for others, it was somewhat fun for me too, specially the hype of gear or getting someone their relic items! :D
In FF11 relic took time, but there you actually had the right to ''brag'' about it, because the time you spent, good groups and also killing hard bosses as achivement, all of that plus alot of time to make gil to put into it. In FF14 you have endless grind that even a potato can do.
I'd love to have raids or primals included for relic, but reality hurts, most people couldn't deal with it and honestly dynamsis wasn't even that hard, no need to put super hard content to get it done with, just something that people actually have to use their brain on :).

Edit: I forgot to mention, I do agree 90% of what your post said and that's excactly what yoshida mentioned. But why not make a RELIC and something to the audiance that just do random stuff like the joy of fate farming for hours or endless dungeons you had months ago?

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Originally Posted by Komoritane

I wonder if it might help for the dev team to focus less on extremes (i.e. grinders vs. elite raiders) and more on the average player.

The average committed player does not want to fall more than a little behind on weapon item level, but doesn't want to grind each level of Alex NM 200 times for relic items and can't clear the A3S DPS check. If you force them to choose between these two options, then they might choose neither and stop playing until the next level of tome gear comes out.

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Yes! Or make relic upgradeable in each patch and ofc everyone will get somewhat increase of Ilvl, but raiders will still have some advantage of it. But yes, the last line, I agree 100% That's a good statement :).

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Originally Posted by Komoritane

I wonder if it might help for the dev team to focus less on extremes (i.e. grinders vs. elite raiders) and more on the average player.
The average committed player does not want to fall more than a little behind on weapon item level, but doesn't want to grind each level of Alex NM 200 times for relic items and can't clear the A3S DPS check. If you force them to choose between these two options, then they might choose neither and stop playing until the next level of tome gear comes out.

The average raider does not need a raid group to clear Alex NM and can't clear Alex Savage, but still wants the opportunity to raid. Again if you force them to choose between these two options, then they might choose to wait for future content.

The average social player is looking for more diversity of content to play with their friends and FC members, but they don't want to mindlessly grind Diadem and not all of their friends may be capable of clearing Thordan Extreme. New dungeons, or a way for old dungeons and trials to be relevant again (i.e. more tome rewards for lower level content) could help with this. Hildebrandt trails are also usually around the right level that everyone can enjoy.

As others have mentioned in this thread, it feels like a lot of content is being recycled (Atma RNG? again?), probably due to the push to release each new extensive patch by a comparatively small number of dev team members. However, sometimes it's important to take a step back and ask yourself, "Will the average gamer actually enjoy this?" It seems like maybe the dev team can't see the forest for the trees, as the saying goes.

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If they something like Thordan is too difficult then doesn't that make Void Ark and Alex normal right up their alley? What do you even want? Stuff that can be cleared in the first run or not? If it's on the DF on release, then it would have to be the former. Even the 24 mans can take the whole 2 hours for people doing it the first time. That said, the development team is not small by industry standards so I wish people would stop using this as a statement. So you say you want content that you want a raid group for (i.e. content that you cannot pug). That already is the first couple floors of AS. Did you try them? But then you go around and say they can't clear Thordan (which is a pretty easy fight compared to raid content). A lot of people say "Thordan got the difficulty right" so isn't this the goal for your group to work towards. I mean do you just want a version of void ark that is not on the DF (and thus no one can do, because who can make 24 man statics)?