What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

That's great and all but we are talking about a fictional fantasy world, not real life. Even then under the so called "democracies" upward mobility and true freedom is impossible seeing as how the population of FFXIV's world is in a medieval state where literacy and access to higher education is extremely scarce. In any case, the Garlean monarchy still represented the best interests of Garlemald despite the underlying motives and under Solus they knew the most competent government they ever had, with the crowning achievement of previous regimes being the forced retreat all the way into a frozen wasteland.

A benevolent dictatorship (see: Larsa, Ashe, Garnet, etc) would be more beneficial for them and make for a more interesting world than the continued preaching of real world values into the game's world. Do you really think that the senate members just magically turned good after the fall of the empire? They probably still harbor nationalistic motives and other values you disagree with. Evil works best in packs, not as individuals. However, put the power in the hands of someone who leans more benevolent and things just might actually improve. However it's not like we'll see the senate members or the mythical Larsa anyway. Too hard to write, give new Taco Bell scene in 6.2 instead plz

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I agree with this, particularly in a fantasy context, I'd rather see a plurality of regimes, and I've little attachment to the notion of all of them being turned into democracies. Granted, with Garlemald it would be a reversion to being a republic, rather than an entirely new direction, but with that said, I'd hoped they'd take Garlemald in the Archades direction in terms of its government.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I think it's especially important that Garlemald's "royal" family are relieved of their duty. Established scarcely more than sixty years ago, from the first, they were only ever intended as puppeteers to mastermind the manipulation of Garlemald into causing chaos and strife on the world stage, and exploiting the Garlean's previous sense of vulnerability to their own ends. Though they've enjoyed propserity under rule, Garlemald has never been "free"; they went from one form of subjugation to another, even if they weren't fully aware of it (though some clearly were.) For them to truly start anew and break away from their past, I think it better that their fate be placed truly, squarely in their own hands for the first time than those of another ruler, no matter how benevolent. They deserve that much, at least.

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Agreed. I wouldn't mind finding out more about Garlemald's recent history, but for all the lauding I've seen of Varis, he was an absolutely abysmal leader in every single respect you can possibly imagine and really showed the problems inherent in a system where blood relation is seen as conferring the right to be in charge of a country. I can't see the people that have survived to see the rise and crash of a system of government like that in their lifetime rushing out to put the crown on whatever ninny with a drop of Emet-Selch's blood happens by.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Agreed. I wouldn't mind finding out more about Garlemald's recent history, but for all the lauding I've seen of Varis, he was an absolutely abysmal leader in every single respect you can possibly imagine and really showed the problems inherent in a system where blood relation is seen as conferring the right to be in charge of a country. I can't see the people that have survived to see the rise and crash of a system of government like that in their lifetime rushing out to put the crown on whatever ninny with a drop of Emet-Selch's blood happens by.

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From what we hear and read of Varis though if i’m not mistaken he’s referred to as a great and fair leader according to the garlean people. If we go based off of a country’s misdeeds then i’d consider the city state leaders just as abysmal in every single respect.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

From what we hear and read of Varis though if i’m not mistaken he’s referred to as a great and fair leader according to the garlean people. If we go based off of a country’s misdeeds then i’d consider the city state leaders just as abysmal in every single respect.

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Yeah, there's actually a lot of depth to his character that is solidified through side quests and excerpts from the lore book. Given that his hands were tied and he wasn't able to rely upon some instant 'I WIN' button to solve all of the problems around him I'd say he did a pretty good job despite impossible odds being stacked against him. He also wasn't as cruel or callous as many suggest - he was reluctant to make use of Black Rose and only did as much in the alternate universe when the soldiers were pounding on on the gates of the capital as a desperate last resort. (With the added nuance, of course, that he couldn't realistically account for the unforeseen side effects...and his people typically cannot manipulate aether and so such weapons mitigate that disadvantage considerably).

I'm not talking about what in-game people say about Varis, I'm talking about what we can see of him as players. Cutting funding for the arts just because Solus liked the theater (petty and shortsighted); restarting the war with Eorzea after having barely solidified himself as emperor; choosing someone as unstable as Zenos as his heir. About the only thing Varis was good at was talking the talk, because everything else he attempted met with total failure. We're just lucky his idiocy only destroyed Garlemald in this timeline, instead of the other where his propensity towards weapons of mass destruction ushered in another Calamity a scarce five-ish years after the last one. Talk about a useful idiot.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

I'm not talking about what in-game people say about Varis, I'm talking about what we can see of him as players. Cutting funding for the arts just because Solus liked the theater (petty and shortsighted); restarting the war with Eorzea after having barely solidified himself as emperor; choosing someone as unstable as Zenos as his heir. About the only thing Varis was good at was talking the talk, because everything else he attempted met with total failure. We're just lucky his idiocy only destroyed Garlemald in this timeline, instead of the other where his propensity towards weapons of mass destruction ushered in another Calamity a scarce five-ish years after the last one. Talk about a useful idiot.

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Eh, considering he killed not only all of the scions but also the WoL in the other timeline he accomplished more than even the likes of Emet selch or any of the ascians really have done during the main course of the game. Also again, in the whole restarting the war thing none of this would’ve happened if they hadn’t been invaded. All he was doing what was done unto their people constantly. If he treats his people fairly i don’t see much of an issue with it. Considering we have city states where slavery is legal, racism is abundant, and genocide to claim land is fine.

I imagine part of his decision to cut funding for the theatre was due to the subversive messaging being pushed through such productions.

Either way, it strikes me as strange to criticise a character for being placed in an effectively unwinnable situation when that is precisely why Venat is being criticised for doing the exact same thing to the Ancients.

Each to their own, though, I suppose. Certainly there's plenty of in-game nations that I don't care for but I'm not going to try and hijack them for the sake of a 'message' or broken aesop.

And Garlemald wouldn't have been invaded in the 8th Umbral Calamity timeline if he'd been smart enough to shore up his hold on the country instead of immediately invading a foreign country, like, two seconds after he barely won a war of succession. You do understand that being invaded to the point where he has to use the death gas is also a failure, right? If someone can make it to your doorstep and the only way you can fight them off is to kill everything including yourselves, you lost.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

And Garlemald wouldn't have been invaded in the 8th Umbral Calamity timeline if he'd been smart enough to shore up his hold on the country instead of immediately invading a foreign country, like, two seconds after he barely won a war of succession. You do understand that being invaded to the point where he has to use the death gas is also a failure, right? If someone can make it to your doorstep and the only way you can fight them off is to kill everything including yourselves, you lost.

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He had two powerful Ascians breathing down his neck to force his hand and nobody around him to lean on for reliable aid without the expectation of weakening the position of his people and causing the Empire to crumble. I'm sure both Elidibus and Emet-Selch were both well aware that if needed they could simply kill Varis and puppet his corpse.

Certainly, he lost - but such losses come about due to the game's silly habit of stripping the antagonists of absolutely everything they care about whilst denying them the same courtesies extended to the protagonists. Certainly, if Varis could count on dying and then immediately coming back a few minutes completely unscathed then things might have been different for his cause!

At any rate, I like Russian and Roman aesthetics and want to see more of them moving forward. Ideally beneath a strong, united banner and strong leader figure who puts his or her people first and foremost. Variety is the spice of life and it'd be nice to see some more variety in terms of the game's nations.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

And Garlemald wouldn't have been invaded in the 8th Umbral Calamity timeline if he'd been smart enough to shore up his hold on the country instead of immediately invading a foreign country, like, two seconds after he barely won a war of succession. You do understand that being invaded to the point where he has to use the death gas is also a failure, right? If someone can make it to your doorstep and the only way you can fight them off is to kill everything including yourselves, you lost.

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Considering that his people didn’t have an almighty person full of plot armor to solve all their problems i’d say he did pretty damn well under the circumstances. Considering the only reason there was an opposing army in the first places was because of us i’d say it’s a little unfair but even then, he still managed to kill us. Something no one else has been able to do…