4.1 - The emptiest patch yet.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Hmm whats this games population 500k to 700k, lets say even 20 thousand or 40 thousand people clear this , is that really enough to justify. I dont even think flogs have 20k parses on one job so that could possibly mean that not even that many people are raiding. Which would make that 40 k number not possible , so If thats the case if not even 40 thousand out of 500ish thousand players are gona be doing this then whats the point exactly.

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To extrapolate your argument to the logical extreme, only dungeons should be made from here on because they're the only content the playerbase universally does, if that. Also all games and media should pander to everyone and as a result be bland messes.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

just doesnt make sense for the big fresh new thing to be a raid that less than 10 thousand people if that , even have access to.

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It's more than that, ultimate is a small part of a redesign of the raid system. People have become divided over whether raiding is too easy or too hard, and the inclusion of ultimate allows for them to make raiding more accessible to the masses. We need to look at more than the clear rates of ultimate and predict what it means for the next tier of omega as well. This tier of raid has the highest participation rate in a while I believe, and ultimate is a solution to keep everyone happy.

On top of that, I will reiterate that this has NO new assets involved (or very little at the most), meaning the development team have limited the resources so that this doesn't impact any other part of development

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Just doesnt make sense to call this content for this patch , they really should have brought something else out alongside this to justify makin this a standalone content, for patch 4.1.

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People have been asking for years for more progression content instead of just 4 bosses every 6 months and it just happens the HC number finally came up. If it flops they just won't bother with it again. (Actually considering Diadem flopped twice they might just try again anyway) Also dungeons keep getting dropped because people make threads about how boring it is to cap tomes blah blah so monotonous. So now they keep dropping dungeons to attempt other things.

This is coming from someone who likely won't bother too much with Ultimate. I think the PvP in this game is terrible, but you don't see me parading around saying they shouldn't be wasting their time on it. I acknowledge that other people playing the game like it, so that's fine by me. Just like there is a subset of players that like Dark Souls/Ultimate content.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Yeah well did you know they are planning to make a gameplay recording feature and they said it was going to take a lot of resources? If they want it in the game it's going in the game. Is recording the game content to you? I'm guessing no.
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For me when I heard of ultimate it was neither here nor their I was happy for streamers I watched, like mr happy , xenos ex all of that. I like raiding myself I love the part of the game its one of the most important parts of the game to me honestly gettin towards each fight is really fun. But the thing is that for them to bring this out and not bring out a potd, or a eruka however u spell it and just give us the basic stuff that we would have already gotten anyway , and taken a dungeon away is just messed up. Because the fact is ultimate is really not content for the overwhelming majority of people who play this game the other two things I mention is tho but yet they are absent in this patch.


So for the majority what we have is a missing dungeon and the same 24 man that was already coming anyway, and the same ex primal that was already coming anyway. Housing I mean yea so exciting I guess mention before I have a house to but a building is not content. So its not so much this raid its more so is where is that extra content for the dungeon we lost for the normal player not a few thousand

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Originally Posted by Vaer

(Actually considering Diadem flopped twice they might just try again anyway)

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I'm inclined to consider Ultimate the second try already actually, with Second Coil Savage being the first. Maybe the third if you want to consider Gordias.

For me, it's simple: If they used resources proportionately, then the resources weren't wasted. If you have 1% of hardcores, putting 1% of your resources towards hardcore content seems fine. At 3% resources, I'd start calling waste of resources, it's 3 times as much as they'd deserve. The hard part is judging just how much effort went into it and how big the audience is - You usually rely on experience there and for new content like Lord of Verminion, there was no data. Potentially wasting resources there can't be helped, it only can if you have some data on who might play that content.

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Originally Posted by FabricioRF

PotD is the worst piece of content ever added to the game, in my opinion. You just mindlessly kill things by pressing 1 button. No mechanics, no challenge, no nothing.

I'd rather do Diadem than PotD.

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Well the only challenge you will get with four people under floor 100 is with bad randoms. But the challenge itself comes with the floors 101+ and solo play. Sadly I cant truly try it thanks to their horrible DCs in there and the horrible no death rule on top of that. (Since DCs count as death if you are solo)

I dont have anything against ultimate. I am kinda looking forward to seeing the world first groups try it and I know that each part of the playerbase needs something. But I just wished there was some long living content for the more casuals too. We have one dungeon and a 24 man raid that can be completed in a day. Story is always nice but its also over in some hours. New emotes, hair styles and things like that are a given in a patch. (And lets not forget that we only got two new hairstyles in the expansion itself..)

There is nothing in this patch that will keep me playing for weeks. (Other than a new house but I dont really see that as content for everyone thanks to its limit) So in the end I am just disappointed that the more casuals or midcore player did not get something really new this patch..something like Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I'm inclined to consider Ultimate the second try already actually, with Second Coil Savage being the first. Maybe the third if you want to consider Gordias.

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Eh nah. Gordias wasn't a complete waste, some of the resources went to everyone (actually it was the first version of a Normal raid ever).

Second Coil S had a problem, which was it had bad rewards really, titles. People didn't bother because of this due to the difficulty.

This time it has exclusive weapons with 3 materia slots. It might be their second attempt, but AFAIK it's only one fight, and not 4 different fights like Second Coil had. I mean eventually it might even go unsync, and with echo/nerfs/ilvl-enabled faceroll anyone can attempt it.

Personally for me, I think the clear rate is going to be insanely low (which they probably expect), but they did say they wanted feedback which means I think they are going to continue to do it.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So for the majority what we have is a missing dungeon and the same 24 man that was already coming anyway, and the same ex primal that was already coming anyway. Housing I mean yea so exciting I guess mention before I have a house to but a building is not content. So its not so much this raid its more so is where is that extra content for the dungeon we lost for the normal player not a few thousand

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For the record I think cutting dungeons is a bad idea. I already thought this when it from 3 to 2 in HW. But I think they took the feedback of (omg this game is just cap tomes with dungeons every week) to heart and wanted to diverge (PoTD, Diadem rework) were attempts at this. Other ways to get the tomes and mostly casual content. Eureka might be their attempt at "fixing" the relic quest. I'm assuming the job armor will be upgraded there as well.

This patch is also coming after they churned out an entire expansion in like 6 months. A certain other game has had 1 year content droughts between expansions more than once. Usually after an expansion the first patch is usually sparse or is delayed. I believe Eureka was originally scheduled for 4.15 with the relic but they couldn't get it done in time I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I'm inclined to consider Ultimate the second try already actually, with Second Coil Savage being the first. Maybe the third if you want to consider Gordias.

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its easy you look at the clears of v3s and above far more players have cleared 1 and 2 than 3 and up. Neo ex death being maybe about 7 thousand players on a heavily played job, so youd have to even cut this number down some. Because its suppose to be way harder than even neo exdeath, so we could be talkin about 5 thousand players in reality. And lets say some players are really good clear it in the first week , this content will sit there just like all the other raids like coil and alex going untouched. This content in reality isnt even gona last a whole months time for the majority of people who participate.

There a lot of phases and unless you are one of those world first racers, he recommends players to take it easy with the mindset of spending 3 months to clear it. The staff members were saying "We have no idea how long it will take, even for the world first team". Since patch 4.1 will not raise the item level cap, if the world first team cannot beat it in 3days, the other teams will have a much harder time. They know the top teams have amazing skills in solving mechanics which surpasses their expectations, but even then, Solving each puzzle and continuiing to play with zero mistakes will require a huge amount of concentration and cause mental fatigue. He begs players to make sure they don't over do it. This is from a redit post so maybe Im wrong about the one month thing, but it would be really messed up if they talk all this trash and it doesnt live up to what they say

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I cant stand when people go and dig up peoples lodestones...

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Not to mention the fact that the character associated with their forum account may or may not be their main.

It annoys me as well.