PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

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Originally Posted by Felis

[...] or playing with cards)

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There is never a time NOT to play with cards.

https://screenshots.en.sftcdn.net/en...03-700x393.jpg

*cough*
Could not resist.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

If that means that players who AFK 80% of the dungeon only go in with premade groups, I'm fine with that.

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With 1 sec queue time as healer at the start of SB you don't really need a premade group.

I think what we need are bees returning back to dungeons. Or other enemies with an special attack that eat over 75% of the HP away.

Imo they should intertwine dpsing and healing a bit more.

For examlple with the new CS now something like this:
When you get Cure-Proc you can cast the next single target spell for free (regardless if Stone, Wind or Healing Spell). Maybe even even with stacking procs, like if you get 2 Cure-Procs in a row the effect is also applied to the next AoE spell.
Same or similar effect could be applied to casting Stone4, like you get Stone4-Proc the next single-target spell gets +20% potency, double proc extends to AoE.
Or Stone4-Proc giving you a free stoneskin with no casttime.

I don't think that any proper WHM would need SoS for mp with such a mechanic and you'd be way more able to adjust to crit heals, self heals of targets, etc...

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Originally Posted by Felis

With 1 sec queue time as healer at the start of SB you don't really need a premade group.

I think what we need are bees returning back to dungeons. Or other enemies with an special attack that eat over 75% of the HP away.

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You only need a healer for those if you can't stun and kill properly.

You can suggest what you want, you won't find a way which ends up in healers who actually know whats happening (or even a whole group who does that) won't have increasing downtime in a vertical progression game with varying tank hp/healing power values of +/- 20% or more.

Healing in terms of just keeping the group alive will never be more difficult than dpsing in terms of kill an enemy somehow (and if it's only 3 abilities they use) or tanking in terms of just keep aggro and (maybe) use mitigations skills.

Yes, people miss mechanics and die and make your job maybe harder. But that is true for all roles: If people do mistakes they make your task usually harder to accomplish.

You can't do more than useful healing and you can't do more than useful mitigating/tanking in that regards. You can't add a super healing action/decision to an already proper healing without generating downtime. Ilvl and skill gap will always lead to downtime for a pretty big group of players.

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Originally Posted by Tharne

You think it's a critical design issue but maybe it's intended that way. Not a lot of games have healers be completely dedicated to healing during the entirety of a fight.

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Sure you can. I have played several. Healing in FF14 is poorly designed, starting with the fact that healing spells are too powerful, too automated and have too long durations. Medica 2 is almost broken powerful.

And assuming it is intended that way, which the devs seem to hint at it not being, then the design issue is with extremely poorly intergrated dps aspects to the class. DPSing as a Healer is rubbish. Its mindnumbingly boring. The only engaging mechanics and synergy the jobs have is with their healing mechanics, particularly now cleric stance has been removed.

One way or another its a design issue. Either make dpsing more interesting and more an intergrated part of the Jobs or actually get the healing gameplay working so that healers don't spend so much time standing around if they aren't dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

There is never a time NOT to play with cards.

https://screenshots.en.sftcdn.net/en...03-700x393.jpg

*cough*
Could not resist.

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+1 I always think of that when I am playing on my AST :D

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Originally Posted by GDFletcher

OK then let me get this brain fart into some focus, you as a community will now KICK healers not DPSing inside a dungeon 4.x onwards. OK then enjoy the long queues as most pure healers say screw this and stop looking for duty and just either re-roll or just stick with premade.

How about Blackmages get kicked for not using the MP share on tanks that need MP for their mass taunts so that they can do a speed run
How about we kick DPS for not using Diversion because why would they want top enmity when they are throwing out all that DPS
How about we kick players for not saying Hello at the start of a dungeon

Seriously... WTF is up with the community? The healer damage will be a little bit higher than it is now with Cleric off but no where near as high as cleric on, so I would say their DPS would somewhat on par or little more than a PLD with Shield Oath on. They are HEALERS for gods sake. You have enough DPS in your group as it is!

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Unless it works on Dark Knight, no tank will ever need MP for speed runs.
They should use Diversion and I will explain why to newer players.
Of course! They weren't polite!

See, the problem here is you're equating a single action (Diversion, Songs, Mana transfer) to the cumulative usage of DPS skills by a healer throughout a 10-15 minute dungeon run. There is a significant difference. None of those examples has any DPS role entirely stationary. A healer who only heals does literally nothing for upwards of 80% of the run. This is why people get salty. No other job is afforded that luxury. So I'll ask, why do you get to have enough time to watch Netflix? And would you complain if I did my 1-2-3 combo on Dragoon and nothing else while alt-tabbing to Youtube?

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Sure you can. I have played several. Healing in FF14 is poorly designed, starting with the fact that healing spells are too powerful, too automated and have too long durations. Medica 2 is almost broken powerful.

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Looks like almost every FF games has poorly designed healing then.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

And assuming it is intended that way, which the devs seem to hint at it not being, then the design issue is with extremely poorly intergrated dps aspects to the class. DPSing as a Healer is rubbish. Its mindnumbingly boring. The only engaging mechanics and synergy the jobs have is with their healing mechanics, particularly now cleric stance has been removed.

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If they had mechanics on healing AND on damage then they would not be a healer but a complete hybrid class. That's why the dps "rotation" as a healer is really easy because that's not their primary role. The challenge comes from knowing where and when you can dish out some easy damage while keeping everyone alive.

http://i.imgur.com/5GfYaSP.png

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

snip

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This is probably the best way to show how this works. :slowclap:

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Originally Posted by Tharne

Looks like almost every FF games has poorly designed healing then.

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There is only one other FF MMO out there and it is a Horizontal progression game which fundamental differences in design and balance. I am comparing FF14 to other MMOs. Apples with apples rather than apples with Melons. FF14's heals are stupidly powerful. A party wide HoT with high potency that lasts for half a minute? No wonder I have to do so little healing.

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Originally Posted by Tharne

If they had mechanics on healing AND on damage then they would not be a healer but a complete hybrid class. That's why the dps "rotation" as a healer is really easy because that's not their primary role. The challenge comes from knowing where and when you can dish out some easy damage while keeping everyone alive.

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If they have to spend that much uptime dpsing then they are being put into the role of a hybrid class. That is my point. If I spend more time dpsing in a fight than I do actively healing then I am literally already playing the role of a support dps without the role being designed for it.

If they want to have healers in a role where they are dpsing a lot give them some synergy with their dps skills. Otherwise create engaging healers gameplay. Otherwise all the fancy healing spells and Job mechanics are almost completely wasted. Why would I care about new shiny healing abilities if I am not going to be using them most of the time and when I do I already have a healthy selection of powerful heals to pick from? Why remove the one mechanic which actually made dpsing as a healer require even the most mediocre amount of mental effort? With Cleric stance removed there is no challenge because dealing out easy damage is perfectly safe.