Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

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you'd think so,but the problem that this whole thread And others are about is that:some people push their methods on others and refuse to admit they can make mistake or improve because it allegedly ruins their fun.
People tend to harass others and then claim victim in one way or another,simplist example would be to join a pf for a training party(most of those say atleast watch a guide)go in,either demand someone explain everything because guides don't teach stuff properly,or have no clue about anything,show no signs of improving,and harass and refuse any advice because"it ruins the learning experience" and when told that they are being a liability and are wasting other people's times,proceed to call the. Elitists that want to one-shot everything,berate them then come and moan on forums about how unbearable elitism is.
And never mind content,classes are even a worst beast,telling someone that complains about how complicated and underpowered his class is(a Blm no less)that when he macros every skill he's gonna lose tons of dps as a small tip,immediately makes you a horrible elitist that expects unrealistic numbers and makes it sound like you go in sastasha normal and start parsing people and yelling at them

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Originally Posted by Davester

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That's not very simple at all, in fact it sounds like several cases mashed together.

Simple would be an argument in a df party over the pace of a dungeon run when someone wants a speedrun that other members cannot manage.

Or a tank that couldn't hold hate on a trash encounter and proceeded to get beligerent when told to hold hate after it causes deaths.

Or accusations of trolling and demands to kick because someone forgot how an encounter works in crystal tower.

Now i can embellish it all i like with what the person was thinking at the time and their outlook on people in general, but in the game it plays out less so than most depictions in the forums: either things recover;albeit not nessesarily to please the accuser, or people leave and the precious time they wanted to save is still gone.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

All I am saying is be nice to the people that are trying to learn and give it some time

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Players honestly wanting to learn and making an effort on their own initiative isn't the problem, they are to be applauded. The problem is those that take any advice as a personal attack on themselves as they cannot comprehend past their own ego that they aren't as good as they think they are, or simply they have entitlement issues where they feel they don't need to learn and that everyone else should cater to their needs and do it for them. They are what causes the problems, not the former.

When I join DF I expect there may be new players, and it is fun helping them (note helping, not carrying a dead weight) to get their first clear, even if a wipe or 3 is involved, laugh it off, bolster them, throw out some advice for next try. But I won't keep a plyer in who fails at the most basic things constantly, holds back the party and turns to insults when friendly advice is given or totally ignores it and continues to be a douche. I'll ask the party in party chat if they want to replace because, so the player can see why they are getting removed to try and shake them into seeing where the problem really lies. It always leads to a kick, tis a shame, but their actions where spoiling it for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players honestly wanting to learn and making an effort on their own initiative isn't the problem, they are to be applauded. The problem is those that take any advice as a personal attack on themselves as they cannot comprehend past their own ego that they aren't as good as they think they are, or simply they have entitlement issues where they feel they don't need to learn and that everyone else should cater to their needs and do it for them. They are what causes the problems, not the former.

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Yep, that seems to be the most problematic of the bunch and makes people jaded..
You can only deal with incompetence for so long when you're tackling tough contents where 1 person can wipe the whole raid. Do that for a few weeks, few months.. What do you expect? You get sick of the attitude.

I think the attitude is more prevalent in FF14, for most part because many of the players are first time MMO players. I'm not saying that MMO player base isn't toxic in their own right, but the sense of entitlement thinking you don't NEED to get better to tackle end-game content (just look at how many forum posts exist that promote every end-game content should be readily beatable by everybody) or not having a thick enough skin to deal with criticism of any kind is not as prevalent in other MMOs.. Simply because that's a common sight, you get used to it.


For example: I don't participate in coils, I've done T5 because my friend got a group together and needed a healer for it. Other than that, I've never had the desire nor the motivation to tackle it. I've done end-game raids before in other games, so I know what to expect.. I know how toxic and obsessed I can be when I'm in that environment. So I simply opt out of it. That comes with my previous experience of MMOs, I just know what to expect, what kind of work end-game raids will require, etc.

Many people in this game seem completely oblivious to this concept and expect that they should be able to finish 100% of all the contents within the game.. Sure, admirable, but they don't realize how much work they have ahead of them. How much min/maxing they need to do. WHY min/maxing is even a requirement in the first place.
That kind of crowd in end-game environment is just asking for trouble.. When 80% of the group has spent tens of million in gil, getting all the gear to BiS, pentamelding their accessories to min/max their stats, then they run into this one random guy who think he can do it with i110 gear (because previous encounters let you think this.. ST, WoD, Extreme Primals, all have a low gear check) then they wonder why people get pissed off for their unpreparedness and simply fail to see when people point it out that the problem indeed, lies with them.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Today I learned, being arrogant and self-centered is entertaining. "Have some fun and create a good read." For who, you?

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Some players will help. Some players won't, and they shouldn't be forced into it, nor should they be made to feel bad for not wanting to help right then. DF is not the only way to clear content-- there's always making a PF or asking friends for help. The only way you can guarantee that you'll get a group who will stick around while you learn it is to do one of those two things. Otherwise, with DF, people are free to leave as they choose for whatever reason.

You get what you get in DF. Sometimes you get a good group, sometimes you don't.

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No one is expecting you to help everyone at every waking moment. But don't join a DF party and then leave people hanging because you didn't get your instant gratification.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

But that is the crux of the issue. People are associating their negative definitions of elitists and applying it to the elite. You see it every day on these forums and in game. Just being good at the game frequently gains the ire of lots of people just for existing. Just read any of Kosmos' posts for the last few months.

People constantly lump the elite (people who play at a high level) with the 'elitist attitude' (being a jerk).

Add in that we (the elite) are scapegoats for every imaginable problem faced by those less successful in game. I am somehow the reason Joe casual hasn't beaten t9 because I as an elite player (or vet or whatever) don't spend my time after work joining his learning party. If we hint that someone could make an adjustment to improve we are lashed out at because we're telling people how to play, or my personal favorite, the weird attempt to shame us for trying. "Its just a game bruh! I have a REAL LIFE so I don't have time to learn your dumb nolife 'rotations' or 'mechanics'." As if being terrible is a badge if honor. Cracks me up every time. Oh and let's not forget about the link to rmt because we make it so impossible to progress that we force everyone to buy clears from....you guessed it, an elitist clear seller.

Sorry joe casual. I spent months practicing t9 before echo. Multiple hrs 2 to 3 days a week for MONTHS. I'm not oozing with sympathy because you cued solo in df 5 times and came crying to the forums with echo and 20 more ilvl in gear. Nor do I owe you anything. I've put my time in. I am not a terrible excuse for a human because I don't join you t9 prz HALP pf.

We are successful because we DON'T blame others for our failures. Instead of looking for excuses, look for solutions. The longer anyone blames their version of The Man for their failure, the longer you stay a failure. Take control if your situation instead of making excuses.

There are lots of elite players that are sick and tired of being labeled as the devil to all that is good and holy in an mmo. The OP described that. That's why it has so many likes and "I agree with op" posts. Being good (elite) has ZERO coorelation with being a jerk (negative connotation of elitist the Internet has chosen).

I don't remember the tracks star in high school being shunned and hated for being a dick by everyone slower just because they were good at something. But here on the internet, our success is apparently a direct attack on others who aren't as successful. I still blame the everyone gets a participation ribbon generation, but that's for another time.

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This pretty much sums it up entirely. Thanks for this.
I don't know why putting time and effort into the game suddenly means you're an asshole but apparently that's the case now.

Also, I would like to point out as people have said before, only about 10% of the community are end game raiders, so lets say 1% of those are actually 'elitists' who look down on everyone and are general assholes that's a very small number of people.
Now lets say just 1% of the non-end game community are at the other end of the spectrum and are those who call end-game raiders no lifers/elitists/ignorant/jerks. That's a hell of a lot more people that we have to deal with being jerks.

So you wonder why we tend to stop caring.

this will get fun in heavensward cant wait XD

From my perspective "elitist" and "good" are two different things.

When I am in a group with a good player they are usually quiet or they're helpful. If they see me goofing something up they'll offer advice in a non condescending way and I am always happy to listen since the insights of more experienced players are valuable. I've been playing this game for less than a month, I don't shun advice.

But then there are "elitists" as the internet has come to define them. They're also objectively good players but if they see me die to something their reaction is "Get good", "kick the mage" or "...seriously?" That's not helpful, that's antagonistic. Reactions like that just don't make us newbies feel very good about ourselves. Trust me when I say we don't like goofing up either.

I like to think that most people know the difference between these groups but it's human nature to remember negative experiences over neutral ones. There may be a knee-jerk reaction that comes over newer players when they see someone who is well geared and they just assume they'll be berated so they start snarling at the other players as a preemptive defense mechanism.

When I was playing a different MMO I was a high end raider and I dealt with sneering newcomers by being patient and kind. Sometimes they settled down sometimes not because some folks are just...well...obstinate jerks. Can't fix that.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players honestly wanting to learn and making an effort on their own initiative isn't the problem, they are to be applauded. The problem is those that take any advice as a personal attack on themselves as they cannot comprehend past their own ego that they aren't as good as they think they are, or simply they have entitlement issues where they feel they don't need to learn and that everyone else should cater to their needs and do it for them. They are what causes the problems, not the former.

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This comes with a caveat. You have to actually present the advice as advice.

Far too often people don't tell people why they're screwing up, just that they suck. Or presenting it in an aggressive manner like "omg, how come you can't even dodge a simple AoE?". I see this far and away more often than I see people getting upset about the advice given. Most people get upset because of the manner in which it's delivered.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

This comes with a caveat. You have to actually present the advice as advice.

Far too often people don't tell people why they're screwing up, just that they suck. Or presenting it in an aggressive manner like "omg, how come you can't even dodge a simple AoE?". I see this far and away more often than I see people getting upset about the advice given. Most people get upset because of the manner in which it's delivered.

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But... if you're lv 50, how CAN you not dodge a blaring red spot right under your feet? No explanation, the person is simply not paying attention or underestimating the effects of the aoe, thinking they could just soak it up.. Neither of which deserve advice, advice can't fix that, there's no secret to dodging aoe, just gotta stay focused.