Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Midare

Seems apt to repost this:

https://i.imgur.com/ztIteI9.png

(Not mine btw)

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Yeah, that's exactly how it felt to me at times. Kind of makes me imagine a stealth sequence where the WoL has to keep sneaking away from Wuk Lamat...

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

That and people always forget that ARR showed us how deadly adventuring can be with the adventurers dying in the first dungeons.
There is also the whole thing with the elementals in Gridania or the poor people right infront of Ul'dah.

There was so much grity stuff in ARR, DT should be ashamed of itself because it's a completely unrealistic world.

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This stuff about rubber bullets and general 4kids-esque softening of the lore in Dawntrail reminds me of the one Simpsons episode where Marge forces the Itchy & Scratchy writers to remove all the violence, conflict and edge because it's a bad influence, resulting in a completely substanceless episode made to be as inoffensive and safe as possible, that appeals to absolutely nobody besides people who didn't like the show to begin with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozWpY6Cn67Y
First Poochie now this, truly The Simpsons has predicted Dawntrail once again

I still enjoyed the msq all in all, and still put it as a whole package over 4.0. But while I didn't dislike Wuk Lamat or her story, the expansion really would have benefited by spreading things out more.

Spoilers.

Take the Stormblood villainous trio for example. Zenos was 'our' villain, Fordola was 'Lyse's villain' and Yotsuyu the villain for the Doma characters. Lyse was a persistent presence in the expansion. But while I feel Wuk Lamat's arc was better done than Lyse's, Lyse left more room for other people to shine. In DT, all three major villains are Wuk Lamat's villains. Her foils and adversaries to overcome.

Meanwhile characters like Krile and Erenville don't really get many moments to shine outside of the final zone when their stories pay off. Krile gets a couple teases along the way but not much of substance. We get some fun with Erenvilla for like half a zone before the second main plot kicks in. Meanwhile the twins have it even worse, and if not for them filling out trust slots you could really cut them out of the expansion entirely and not miss anything of substance. The same is mostly true for Thancred and Urianger, who outside of one good campfire scene with Koana don't really contribute much. And the idea they teased of having to compete against other scions was even more overblown than the 'become the warrior of darkness thing.' Consisting of exactly one moment where Thancred slighlty inconveniences us in a dungeon and THAT'S IT.

I don't have a problem with Wuk Lamat's story in isolation, the problem is she took the lion's share of focus. (Pun intended.) Lyse was also the protagonist of SB pretty much but gave more room for other characters to shine, though it did end up making her arc feel rushed in how quickly she became resistance leader in the third act.

I still enjoyed the DT MSQ all in all, I don't criticize it because i hate it but because I love the game and hope to see better going forward.

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

This stuff about rubber bullets and general 4kids-esque softening of the lore in Dawntrail reminds me of the one Simpsons episode where Marge forces the Itchy & Scratchy writers to remove all the violence, conflict and edge because it's a bad influence, resulting in a completely substanceless episode made to be as inoffensive and safe as possible, that appeals to absolutely nobody besides people who didn't like the show to begin with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozWpY6Cn67Y
First Poochie now this, truly The Simpsons has predicted Dawntrail once again

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When they were trimming the fat from ARR, did they get rid of that one line in La Noscea(I think Aleport or Moraby) that described the water as "colder than a dead whore's crotch"? If not, it's some funny contrast.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Again, I don't disagree that he is a trope or that the other characters are that but that it is used in a correct way.
Every single character in this game is one trope and a little bit of others next to it nothing more.
He isn't more of a walking trope then the scions are.

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Archetypal characters (or "trope" characters...) are perfectly fine and valid to use in writing. Sometimes it's useful to use as a shortcut to get across a character's personality, other times it's the starting point for a more interesting story.

Urianger is an academic's academic. Very close to the 'Absent Minded Professor' archetype. But the game takes those traits of him being too academic, too technical and does some engaging stuff with it (ie, the whole subplot with Moenbryda.)

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

There was this short scene in the Endwalker patch where Wuk slaps G'raha on the back and he gives her this surprised, uncomfortable look as he nearly falls over. I really liked that scene, because it made her look a bit more Tomboyish, almost dude-bro levels of extrovertedness that could have at times caused issues with her misreading the room or maybe relationships and she'd have to learn to be a bit more understanding of others (and her people wink wink).

But no, the Wuk we got in Dawntrail is ... relatively feminine, all things considered? Almost stereotypically-so actually, where her strength actually comes more from the inside and then she's given cute flaws like being a klutz and playfully emotional to make her endearing. If we swapped her out of Warrior without changing anything else there wouldn't be anything egregious that pops out. The Scions all have a job that suits them. Thancred's a bodyguard, Alisaie is the more aggressive of what is ultimately very supportive twins, Urianger is mysterious, etc, etc. Wuk has a heart of gold, and so she's a warrior, and that's fiiiine but ... I feel like that's not enough.

I ... actually kind of want to blame the VA here as well. I wonder how I'd feel going through DT with JP voices. Unfortunately I'm not enough of a masochist to actually go through DT more than once.

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It occurred to me earlier that the Endwalker patch Wuk content might have been the most recently written and recorded. The performance and characterization is a lot more solid. I had no problems with the way she was presented during EW but there was a big disconnect the moment we got into DT proper. It could be a combination of the VA being more confident in the role by that point, the writing being separated somewhat from the msq slog and not chained down by rudimentary exposition and reiteration. EW Wuk embodied the goofy warrior novice nicely but the Wuk in DT would have been better suited as an airhead pictomancer who's focus was on people and culture at large [hence an interest in ART] instead of the overvalued martial prowess of her competitors.

Also I reckon this why she didn't know what ziplines were in living memory despite riding one with us in EW.

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

This stuff about rubber bullets and general 4kids-esque softening of the lore in Dawntrail reminds me of the one Simpsons episode where Marge forces the Itchy & Scratchy writers to remove all the violence, conflict and edge because it's a bad influence, resulting in a completely substanceless episode made to be as inoffensive and safe as possible, that appeals to absolutely nobody besides people who didn't like the show to begin with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozWpY6Cn67Y
First Poochie now this, truly The Simpsons has predicted Dawntrail once again

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Now we just need the Simpsons episode where someone else comes to Springfield and pretends like they made/own the characters, for when the FFXI 24 man comes out, and FFXIV tries to act like it's just a shard of Etheirys.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Now we just need the Simpsons episode where someone else comes to Springfield and pretends like they made/own the characters, for when the FFXI 24 man comes out, and FFXIV tries to act like it's just a shard of Etheirys.

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That's not going to happen.

They might work their own version of FFXI into FFXIV lore like they did with Ivalice, Doma etc, but they're not going to come out and say 'FF XI was actually one of our reflections all along.'

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

That's not going to happen.

They might work their own version of FFXI into FFXIV lore like they did with Ivalice, Doma etc, but they're not going to come out and say 'FF XI was actually one of our reflections all along.'

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idk, I don't trust the writing team not to do that atm. Of course it sounds like a ridiculous premise that would never be allowed to happen, but DT would have been called the same if you'd told most people about it 6 months ago instead of how it was advertised as a fun and relaxing vacation.

Also don’t forget wuk almost talk no jutsu a freaking Computer program hellbent on saving the people of Alexandria into becoming a “good person”. Maybe I should try that when my pac is acting up at some point so he feels bad and stops whatever he does. Like thinking about it they told us endless are already dead and a perversion that needs souls too function and we shouldn’t feel bad ending them. Why do they think we would care about sphene in any way when they told us don’t care about the endless. It’s like so brain rotting after I thought about it again. She’s a murdering ai memory of a person that died 1000 years ago and poochie tries talking with it……….

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

That and people always forget that ARR showed us how deadly adventuring can be with the adventurers dying in the first dungeons.
There is also the whole thing with the elementals in Gridania or the poor people right infront of Ul'dah.

There was so much grity stuff in ARR, DT should be ashamed of itself because it's a completely unrealistic world.

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Remember back in early arr days went we about to enter dungeon (manually) you always see a couple of npc adventurer who stand at the enterance, They just npc and has nothing to do with your msq, but everytime you finish the dungeon and leave, you can see that npc adventurer also done their own exploring, and some of them got their own story to explore

-The oldman elf and young elf woman start fine but at the end the oldman got hurt and decide to retire
-The small group of young adventurer start with high morale, later they all sad because one of them die because he got pinned by falling big rock (which actually you can see in the dungeon because its blocking your way so you took different path, when i heard that i was like "omg its that big rock that block my path?")
- and off course who cant forget edda adventure, start as minor npc and become personal matter that we need to deal with

Arr was "slice of life" yes bjt if you check for further detail you can find its not all sunshine and rainbow, DT is just pure slice of life at least on the first half

Wuk Lamat is an absolutely atrocious character with one of the worst vocal performances ever recorded (EN), and yet Wuk is not single-handedly ruining DT. Rather, Wuk is a symptom of a rot festering at the very core of this expansion's story.

That rot is simple: the lead writer was unable to conceptualize that there exists a world outside of his own perception. The plot feels stream-of-consciousness, wherein the author believes everything they write is immaculate and needn't be concerned with fitting in with the story or the world in the slightest.

One-pass, no-review, send to prod: a character will be demonstrated to be using a linkshell; the next scene will suggest that they have no means of communication because communications are jammed; and in the same scene another character will use a linkshell with zero issues. "Communications are jammed!" was a cool idea the writer had in one breath, and in the very next breath it was decided that it'd be cool if someone communicated something really mundane via linkshell.

There is nothing that can be salvaged from Dawntrail. It has no characters. It has character concepts, at best. Its plot is a complete mess, because it's trying to create a drama out of empty, vapid silhouettes.

The head writer deserves all of the rancor and more. Every previous expansion has had multitudinous voices, which has often had deleterious effect: Shadowbringers' midgame is clunky and reliant on cheap pratfall-deaths as a replacement for tension; Endwalker's pacing is absolutely all over the place and whoever wrote Garlemald certainly didn't write the Loporrits. And yet here, in Dawntrail, everything sounds like this one, singular writer. Everything is about Wuk Lamat, how cool peace is, and how it's so great and awesome to solve all of your problems just by talking with people. Absolutely. Everything.

It feels like the lead writer became a tyrant with creative control, and decided that this expansion would be his absolute opus!: and well, that's such a comforting thought for anyone struggling. No matter how hard life might get, no matter how hard it might be to see the light of morrow: at least you didn't write Dawntrail.

Square should charge double, triple, or even quadruple the price of a story-skip for this expansion, and it would still be a bargain. Having suffered through it, there is genuinely no reason beyond utter masochism to not spam escape at the advent of every cutscene.

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Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

idk, I don't trust the writing team not to do that atm. Of course it sounds like a ridiculous premise that would never be allowed to happen, but DT would have been called the same if you'd told most people about it 6 months ago instead of how it was advertised as a fun and relaxing vacation.

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DT has writing character writing problems sure, but the base premise of the expansion is fine. Also they called it a summer vacation AS A JOKE at the first fanfest and immeidately said it wouldn't just be a summer vacation. And they advertised S9 and showed invasion stuff in the launch trailer to make it clear it wasn't just a beach vacation. People really overplay that point.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Also don’t forget wuk almost talk no jutsu a freaking Computer program hellbent on saving the people of Alexandria into becoming a “good person”. Maybe I should try that when my pac is acting up at some point so he feels bad and stops whatever he does. Like thinking about it they told us endless are already dead and a perversion that needs souls too function and we shouldn’t feel bad ending them. Why do they think we would care about sphene in any way when they told us don’t care about the endless. It’s like so brain rotting after I thought about it again. She’s a murdering ai memory of a person that died 1000 years ago and poochie tries talking with it……….

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I don't think the game is trying to tell us not to care about the Endless.

Sure. Erenville's mom says not to. But if she really felt that way, why is she making sure to spend those final moments with her son? Why do Krile and Erenville get moments of bonding before they have to say goodbye? Why does the camera linger on the world going gray and the utter silence after shutting one of the terminals off?

Yes one character says not to worry about it but it seems more likey she's trying to convince us to go through with it rather than her actions backing that sentiment up. And everything else about the final zone is trying to make us feel something for them. I wouldn't take one npcs words motivated to getting us to stop all of it at face value there.

Also considering that 'talk no jutsu' failed and wasn't likely to ever have succeeded given Sphene's directives I don't know why it being there bothers you that much.

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Originally Posted by Niervel

... Rather, Wuk is a symptom of a rot festering at the very core of this expansion's story.

That rot is simple: the lead writer was unable to conceptualize that there exists a world outside of his own perception. The plot feels stream-of-consciousness, wherein the author believes everything they write is immaculate and needn't be concerned with fitting in with the story or the world in the slightest.

One-pass, no-review, send to prod: a character will be demonstrated to be using a linkshell; the next scene will suggest that they have no means of communication because communications are jammed; and in the same scene another character will use a linkshell with zero issues. "Communications are jammed!" was a cool idea the writer had in one breath, and in the very next breath it was decided that it'd be cool if someone communicated something really mundane via linkshell.

...

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This guy gets it.

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Originally Posted by Niervel

Wuk Lamat is an absolutely atrocious character with one of the worst vocal performances ever recorded (EN), and yet Wuk is not single-handedly ruining DT. Rather, Wuk is a symptom of a rot festering at the very core of this expansion's story.

That rot is simple: the lead writer was unable to conceptualize that there exists a world outside of his own perception. The plot feels stream-of-consciousness, wherein the author believes everything they write is immaculate and needn't be concerned with fitting in with the story or the world in the slightest.

Square should charge double, triple, or even quadruple the price of a story-skip for this expansion, and it would still be a bargain. Having suffered through it, there is genuinely no reason beyond utter masochism to not spam escape at the advent of every cutscene.

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The story must have been reviewed, discussed, edited and finally approved by the senior team as a product appropriate for the ffxiv playerbase. The lead writer quite rightly gets the most attention, however that should not remove all the others involved in this drivel from taking their share of responsibility.
In the end, it would have been high level management & directors that signed this off as the direction the game was going to take. What they imagined the playerbase reaction would be? We will likely never know.

[original quote abbreviated due to character limit]

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

DT has writing character writing problems sure, but the base premise of the expansion is fine. Also they called it a summer vacation AS A JOKE at the first fanfest and immeidately said it wouldn't just be a summer vacation. And they advertised S9 and showed invasion stuff in the launch trailer to make it clear it wasn't just a beach vacation. People really overplay that point.

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Soooo… you are saying I won’t get my Y’sthola and and Thancred beach episode with my WoL in swimwear and beach volleyball?

Can this expansion get any worse?



Fun fact:
We actually had a beach episode in Island sanctuary with Tataru and HW noble (forgot the name).
Our WoL even did something there instead of standing around, they played volleyball.
Yes, Island Sanctuary had more action for the WoL than DT.

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

This guy gets it.

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I joke around in my previous post that someone finalize wuk lamat design and when the writer see it, he/she went full mad love with wuk lamat and want her to be the focus every minute and want her to be as perfect as possible because the writer went full simp on wuk lamat

I would laugh if it that really the case lol

Last 3 quests and after that I desperately need my memory wiped...because if I read "Speak to Wuk Lamat" one more time, I am going to bang my head into the wall, might help with the memory loss as well, so killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Edit. Done. goodbye Wuk Lamat

https://i.imgur.com/AiFwMXR.gif

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

Last 3 quests and after that I desperately need my memory wiped...because if I read "Speak to Wuk Lamat" one more time, I am going to bang my head into the wall, might help with the memory loss as well, so killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Edit. Done. goodbye Wuk Lamat

https://i.imgur.com/AiFwMXR.gif

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Get that wall nice and ready.

They should have swapped out Wuk with Koana for the 2nd half of the msq. Since the defense of the city just ended up being everyone just coming togheter to fight, it could have easily been Wuk leading it, since she spent the first half becoming frens with everyone anyway.

Koana is the technology guy, and it would be much more interesting to see him react to solution 9 and it's stuff. It could have even helped to show him the dangers and downsides of relying too much on technological advancements, which is what he was all about.

It wouldn't really save the story for everyone, but at least it would given us a break from Wuk, and allow more screentime for others. I didn't like Lyse much in SB either, but at least she is not with us for the whole msq

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Originally Posted by Gullis

They should have swapped out Wuk with Koana for the 2nd half of the msq. Since the defense of the city just ended up being everyone just coming togheter to fight, it could have easily been Wuk leading it, since she spent the first half becoming frens with everyone anyway.

Koana is the technology guy, and it would be much more interesting to see him react to solution 9 and it's stuff. It could have even helped to show him the dangers and downsides of relying too much on technological advancements, which is what he was all about.

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Completely agree. It's weird that they didn't seem to even consider that. Also, we don't even see Koana do anything that WL wouldn't have been able to do anyway. I think they even said that Alphinaud was the one that contacted Radz at Han anyway? So was there anything that Koana did that specifically on him could've done back in Tullyolal?! It wouldn't have changed anything back there to swap the two.

And not only the technology stuff, but they could've explored different paralels between Sphene and Koana as the Vows of Reason, and their different views and relationships with the Vow of Resolve. It would've probably even helped Sphene as a character as well. Wuk Lamat and Sphene's relationship is only based on "both really love their people", we could've had more than that.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Soooo… you are saying I won’t get my Y’sthola and and Thancred beach episode with my WoL in swimwear and beach volleyball?

Can this expansion get any worse?



Fun fact:
We actually had a beach episode in Island sanctuary with Tataru and HW noble (forgot the name).
Our WoL even did something there instead of standing around, they played volleyball.
Yes, Island Sanctuary had more action for the WoL than DT.

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You could get them to level 100 in trusts, unlock their new trust outfits and then hang out in the first dungeon if you're willing to substitute 'beach' for 'muddy river.'

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

You could get them to level 100 in trusts, unlock their new trust outfits and then hang out in the first dungeon if you're willing to substitute 'beach' for 'muddy river.'

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Trusts are fine and all but it's a pain getting them from 71 to 100 even with the boosted exp.

Preach nailed the problem with Wuk Lamat on the head. She never leaves your side for more than a hot minute.

She is always there, and always in the spot light. This is the first xpac I feel like the WoL and Scions were side lined from start to finish.

The worst part was, Krile got done dirty with that ending for her origins. They never said why they did what they did. It is implied which is normally fine but if you were Krile, it would be the first question out of your mouth even if you knew the answer because you'd need to hear it from them directly to truly understand why they did that and how it made them feel.

If Wuk Lamat didn't stick to you like glue, if the VA direction for everyone this xpac didn't result in some many flat lines / fake yelling, and if everyone just didn't sit there and watch bad brother kill papi even after he clearly began cheating, this xpac wouldn't be perfect but far better than it is story wise.

I'm a little late to this thread because I shudder to even imagine seeing Wuk Lamat again.

I could accept not being the main guy this time around, I could accept that I came across the ocean for Wuk Lamat (not that I could refuse), and a story having lower stakes(at first) than Endwalker was fine by me. I wasn't anywhere near mentally prepared for how obnoxious she became. I don't think I could point anything specific out anymore since it's been a month since release, and I think my mind blanked out on all the Wuk Lamat details.

I was basically dead inside by the time we unlocked the Level 91 dungeon, and even more by the time we hit the 93 one, but I was absolutely elated to be free of Poochie when Erenville decided we'd hit the cowboy zone, and I'm not even a fan of Erenville. I actually groaned so freaking hard when Wuk showed up again, and the rest of the story from there is honestly a blur. I'm just glad I got to have my moments with Krile (the reason I was looking forward to the expansion) as few as they were relative to Mrs. Double-the-lines-of-the-next-most-chatty-character. And the less said about her killstealing and SPEEEENing, the better. This expansion was the first time in my (long) time playing FFXIV where I became a cutscene skipper, usually if the scene wasn't voiced, but ESPECIALLY that scene where she barges in on us at the inn, or if that awful disney-sounding song started playing.

I'd need to hit the expansion again on Newgame plus to get my thoughts together, but I think if I did that in 100 years, it'd still be too soon. Thanks for coming to my horribly put together ted talk.

Rating: 4/10, call me when Poochie dies on the way to her home planet. Give me more Krile.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

DT has writing character writing problems sure, but the base premise of the expansion is fine. Also they called it a summer vacation AS A JOKE at the first fanfest and immeidately said it wouldn't just be a summer vacation. And they advertised S9 and showed invasion stuff in the launch trailer to make it clear it wasn't just a beach vacation. People really overplay that point.



I don't think the game is trying to tell us not to care about the Endless.

Sure. Erenville's mom says not to. But if she really felt that way, why is she making sure to spend those final moments with her son? Why do Krile and Erenville get moments of bonding before they have to say goodbye? Why does the camera linger on the world going gray and the utter silence after shutting one of the terminals off?

Yes one character says not to worry about it but it seems more likey she's trying to convince us to go through with it rather than her actions backing that sentiment up. And everything else about the final zone is trying to make us feel something for them. I wouldn't take one npcs words motivated to getting us to stop all of it at face value there.

Also considering that 'talk no jutsu' failed and wasn't likely to ever have succeeded given Sphene's directives I don't know why it being there bothers you that much.

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The premise of the story was finding the golden city. Problem is the city was already found and there was no mystery for it.

And about the endless. The problem is that they try too play both sides, on one hand we can’t be genocidal monster like emet or the Ascian with the endless so they are just Programms and memories but in the other hand pls care about them because they act like real living beings.

There is no moral weight and no right or wrong question. Same as they try to make us feel for freaking sphene, a computer program that even betrayed us 2 times in a row after we did help here and later get the macuffin back. And yes the talk no jutsu didn’t work but it somehow restored a deleted Personality from a program that in the end didn’t do anything anyway just to makes us feel bad again for the genocidal computer program

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Originally Posted by Mortex

The premise of the story was finding the golden city. Problem is the city was already found and there was no mystery for it.

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It's sad that this is unironically one of the bigger disappointment of the story that ends up being completely buried by all the bigger issues. I wonder if people who really wanted more out of Garlemald felt similarly when that was resolved the way it was.

This was a pretty big mystery, all things considered? What it was, how we'd find it, if we'd find it. And the primary (but technically secondary) goal of the Rite of Succession is "FINDING THE CITY OF GOLD" and uhh ... Did we really find it? Actually find it? We stumbled into it, sure, but finding it? Oh we followed the Dawnservant's journey and that's why we found it, is it? Is it? Is it though?

Of course not. It makes sense in retrospect too, of course we learned nothing from the trials, this isn't a society who's development was inherently tied to the city of gold, heck Gulool Ja Ja and Co stumbled unto it themselves. But then why hijack/combine these plots at all?

I'm horrified at the thought that most of Dawntrail is a result of so many rewrites that almost everything left is a relic of a former script. Which Bakool Ja Ja was the initial pitch? The idiot or tragic messiah figure? Was Koana always secretly emotional? The history stones in Tuliyollal tell the story of the journey of the Dawnservant, but then nothing at all happened for 80 years at which point an 8th stone was placed for Wuk and Koana? Were the Trials always the main plot (well, half of)? People still debate over whatever the hell is going on with S9 and souls/endless/etc? Some of this can be explored, but it'll never be a "Let'em cook" and instead the best we can hope is "Well, it wasn't until X patch that it felt like they had a plan with this".

And I can't stress enough how much I hope this key McGuffin somehow breaks before it warps the plot completely.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

The premise of the story was finding the golden city. Problem is the city was already found and there was no mystery for it.

And about the endless. The problem is that they try too play both sides, on one hand we can’t be genocidal monster like emet or the Ascian with the endless so they are just Programms and memories but in the other hand pls care about them because they act like real living beings.

There is no moral weight and no right or wrong question. Same as they try to make us feel for freaking sphene, a computer program that even betrayed us 2 times in a row after we did help here and later get the macuffin back. And yes the talk no jutsu didn’t work but it somehow restored a deleted Personality from a program that in the end didn’t do anything anyway just to makes us feel bad again for the genocidal computer program

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The silliest thing about the Sphene emotional drama is that her mind was completely artificial. Otis was one of the first people digitized, and he saw her dead well before that, so she's a replica of how she was perceived of by others. She's arguably less "real" than the phantom Hythlodaeus, but she's the one in particular we're supposed to feel sorry for.

I just started DT and I dunno about the character, but the accent is a muddled mess.

They put all their eggs in the Wuk basket, almost everyone’s opinion on the story hinges on if they like her or not. The game never really gives you a chance to spend any sort of significant time with characters accompanying you on this journey outside of Wuk with the one singular exception being the lvl 96 quests with Erenville and it doesn’t last. Shadowbringers is the perfect antithesis of this story structure. It moves focus frequently from character to character, every scion in Norvrandt goes through their own arc and if you don’t like a particular character’s story the game usually moves onto another character relatively quickly, it helps things not get stale. Il Mheg alone has significant character moments with Urianger, Thancred, Ryne, and Ardbert. Meanwhile Dawntrail never really moves on from Wuk, she’s constantly the focus of cutscenes and the driving force behind almost the entire journey. It makes me wonder if there were significant rewrites during development. What also makes me thing this is how Krile’s character is handled. Yoshida himself said while on stage at fan fest that she’d be a very pivotal character in Dawntrail and even said “he felt like he owed her one after all these years.” Even not that long after Endwalker came out he stated in an interview that she’d be a very important character for the next expansion. All that came from this was one quick story segment with her parents in Living Memory. We don’t even get to see her real-time reaction to her heritage, Ketenramm tells her offscreen, was this deemed not important enough to show?? Was her screen time lessened to make room for Wuk, what the hell was happening here???

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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I'd unsub and delete my 13 year old character on the spot.

I've mostly concluded from this that those games that ascribe to the live service mindset do not really know how to make a good downtime period in a game. I don't think anyone was really expecting jumping into saving the world against another major threat nor were they expecting to have their character literally roped into the mess that is the main story of the expansion. Freaking Godfrey in Elden Ring was more impressive than all the characters in this entire expansion, and he expressed the most important aspects of himself in a single fight with our tarnished. World lore was just amazingly good.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

The worst part was, Krile got done dirty with that ending for her origins. They never said why they did what they did. It is implied which is normally fine but if you were Krile, it would be the first question out of your mouth even if you knew the answer because you'd need to hear it from them directly to truly understand why they did that and how it made them feel.

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They clearly said the evil organization wanted to use Kriles echo for bad purposes. More than likely Kriles echo would allow them to locate other reflections to drain their Aether to keep the Endless alive.

I was more interested in how Lalas traveled to a shard that gets taken over by Lightening in the 2nd calamity but they were forced out in the 5th Calamity of Ice. They literally time traveled and ended up causing the 2nd umbral Calamity lol

They created a massive paradox and noone cares.

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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As I pick myself up from the floor (thank you for the laugh)

https://i.gyazo.com/0a5b6fcb2727aae6...79269f107c.png

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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you forgot the next step

"speak with wuk lamat" quest sign

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

And I can't stress enough how much I hope this key McGuffin somehow breaks before it warps the plot completely.

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OMG I cannot agree with this enough. I am horrified by the idea that this writing team may somehow break the idea of Azem because they have no idea of FF14's lore.

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Originally Posted by MalakRevan

Ketenramm tells her offscreen, was this deemed not important enough to show??

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This is why I also personally have problem with us immediately go to shaaloani after the ceremony, even though gulool ja ja told us that he will tell the story about the gate and also of Galuf's involvement after we make Wuk the dawnservant. Surely the WoL can wait for a few days in Tulliyolal until we hear about it from gulool jaja himself, then either try to open the gate or continue our adventure in Shaaloani. Sure we get the echo after Gulool jaja is slain, but that means we don't have screen time with Krile.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate that area and it's a bit of breath room from Wuk, but in the end it's all about her again as we spend most of our time there retrieving Namikka's bracelet.

I don't hate a lot character I like few people don't like I like lyse, tataru the ruler of ulduh Renia Venet. I kind think they under use Sphene and they concept reincarnation you could have Sphene wander around while we fight ai Sphene and you won't know it. Install a child as ruler is mistake that Alexander did. The warriors of light is reborn seat hold of Azem. Every tv shows and movies is doing Mary Sue it been so much that people play FFXIV have issues with people are tire of it. What I want them to do is start nerf remove Wuk Lamar for the last fight remove for show us the armor she service no point there. If SE is feel really adventurous make her a villain or make less important. Make Sphene a child reincarnation was a way give Wuk Lamar some comfort.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The silliest thing about the Sphene emotional drama is that her mind was completely artificial. Otis was one of the first people digitized, and he saw her dead well before that, so she's a replica of how she was perceived of by others. She's arguably less "real" than the phantom Hythlodaeus, but she's the one in particular we're supposed to feel sorry for.

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Endwalker writing forces our WoL to mourn over a magitek armor in the Praetorium. Feeling sorry for a less interesting Cortana is par on course for "us".

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Endwalker writing forces our WoL to mourn over a magitek armor in the Praetorium. Feeling sorry for a less interesting Cortana is par on course for "us".

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The magitek armor didn't hog the spotlight moreso it went away when it is done with it's role, if only another certain furry biped could take a hint.
As a bonus it didn't make any sounds beyond footsteps, cannonfire and gunfire.

/s