Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

Chocobos and airships - me no need to teleports no mo'

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Cite your sources. Then we'll talk. You'll have to show that your Immersion v. Spatial Presence is not an idea of your own and support it with outside sources in order to persuasively make me think that immersion can be objective. I also already read it when you posted it the first time. I just didn't buy it.

I also said that mechanics can be immersion, not necessarily that they always are. Pong can be immersive, the mechanic of a dot being bounced back and forth is the catalyst for the consumer's imagination. The level of immersion in Pong is defined by the player. They could choose to focus solely on the manipulation of their "paddle" to make sure the ball stays in play. They could choose to play defensively or offensively (taking immersion a step further). They could utilize a mixture of both in order to confuse their opponent (even further). They could even pretend the match was table tennis (even further). They could roleplay as their favorite pro tennis athlete (even further). The last is common in youth sports. In childhood pickup games before going in for a lay up or a jump shot from beyond the three point line the player may shout the name of their most admired professional athlete in an attempt to emulate them.

"Jordan!"

I've shown, and many other posters have already shown, how a person's level of immersion is primarily chosen not given. I suggest you read Konachibi's posts. They accurately show how immersion is subjective. Game mechanics act as the catalyst for immersion. Immersion for immersion's sake is considerably less immersive than if it were to involve player input as well.

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If this conversation has come down to the "cite your sources" argument, which I'm sure would have turned into "unless your citing scholarly journals i don't buy it blah blah blah". I'm going to just walk away from this one, had I known in order to "humble" you i needed to develop a thesis with full work cited i would have reconsidered this conversation as a whole (this is a forum for the love of god). What would be the next thing you asked for, an annotated bibliography?

You seem to me to be a decent person just not very humbled is all, i wish you fun and great times in FF14.

P.S. I apologies for not reading your link directions earlier, i must have skimmed over that accidentally.

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Originally Posted by Bled

If this conversation has come down to the "cite your sources" argument, which I'm sure would have turned into "unless your citing scholarly journals i don't buy it blah blah blah". I'm going to just walk away from this one, had I known in order to "humble" you i needed to develop a thesis with full work cited i would have reconsidered this conversation as a whole (this is a forum for the love of god). What would be the next thing you asked for, an annotated bibliography?

You seem to me to be a decent person just not very humbled is all, i wish you fun and great times in FF14.

P.S. I apologies for not reading your link directions earlier, i must have skimmed over that accidentally.

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wtf am I reading?

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Originally Posted by Charismatic

wtf am I reading?

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Something with a lot of long and complicated words.

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Originally Posted by Bled

If this conversation has come down to the "cite your sources" argument, which I'm sure would have turned into "unless your citing scholarly journals i don't buy it blah blah blah".That's actually not necessary. I think I asked too much of you for this particular argument. What I should have said is, "Can you cite a source?". I'm actually fine if you don't. The "spatial presence" argument doesn't completely trump the "immersion is objective" argument though. I've got to go to work right now but I'll be back later to expand on this. I've shown how immersion can be subjective and Konachibi has given actual examples. The downside of "immersion for immersion's sake" is "The uncanny valley". I'm not sure if you've heard of it but I'll link information to it later. I'm going to just walk away from this one, had I known in order to "humble" you i needed to develop a thesis with full work cited i would have reconsidered this conversation as a whole (this is a forum for the love of god)Understood. You don't need to cite scholarly sources to humble me but that would an excellent job. A very well reasoned argument would humble me. An argument where I'm stumped and can't respond would humble me.. What would be the next thing you asked for, an annotated bibliography?Completely unnecessary.

You seem to me to be a decent person just not very humbled is allAs I've said before, I can be humbled, I just haven't in this thread. I've even shown my faults at times. I've even shown my faults in this post. Shouldn't have asked for sources, miscommunicated once., i wish you fun and great times in FF14.

P.S. I apologies for not reading your link directions earlier, i must have skimmed over that accidentally.

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I did notice though that you were starting to quote mine my responses and juxtapose them strategically to make it seem like I was referring to something else. This will get me to remove myself from the argument just as Azurymber's misuse of the same logical fallacy did. I need to start seeing as much care as I put into my responses as I've been putting into yours. My method of putting red text into your quotes along with an overall response to the post as a whole leaves no room for the "you didn't read what I said." I've noticed that I bring up several points in a response but only cherry picked ones are used in your rebuttals. I can show this when I get back from work, as I can show how you began to quote mine me and pull my words out of context.

I wish the same for you and your enjoyment of Final Fantasy XIV. I don't think our needs are mutually exclusive.

To answer OP's question: Nope.

If it is explained and treated as something logical in the world, it shouldn't break immersion. Did warping in Ocarina of Time break immersion? Nope because it was explained and it made sense within that world. As long as that condition is filled then there should be no problem. FFXIV explains the system and treats it as something that logically is possible and happens on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I did notice though that you were starting to quote mine my responses and juxtapose them strategically to make it seem like I was referring to something else. This will get me to remove myself from the argument just as Azurymber's misuse of the same logical fallacy did. I need to start seeing as much care as I put into my responses as I've been putting into yours. My method of putting red text into your quotes along with an overall response to the post as a whole leaves no room for the "you're didn't read what I said." I've noticed that I bring up several points in a response but only cherry picked ones are used in your rebuttals. I can show this when I get back from work, as I can show how you began to quote mine me and pull my words out of context.

I wish the same for you and your enjoyment of Final Fantasy XIV. I don't think our needs are mutually exclusive.

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He's got the Collins English Dictionary Of Long Words at his disposal... it's going to be a tough battle.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

To answer OP's question: Nope.

If it is explained and treated as something logical in the world, it shouldn't break immersion. Did warping in Ocarina of Time break immersion? Nope because it was explained and it made sense within that world. As long as that condition is filled then there should be no problem. FFXIV explains the system and treats it as something that logically is possible and happens on a regular basis.

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This was the basis of my Star Trek metaphor. This particular one is even better as it constrains it to a similar medium "video games" but I'm sure you'll find a rebuttal claiming that Ocarina of Time is not an MMO, completely sidestepping the entire point you were making.

I hope I don't see this as I continue on with the rest of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

He's got the Collins English Dictionary Of Long Words at his disposal... it's going to be a tough battle.

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Long words do not phase me. I have the internet at my disposal. I can look them up. If anything I should try to be more concise with my replies. I think people are getting lost in the "forest" and are unable to see the "trail" I've made. I'll probably start putting quote responses in spoilers and limit the post to a summary response.

I was unaware there was anything really left to say in this thread...

I think about 30 pages ago everything that could be said pretty much was, I think we are arguing in cricles still. It's a matter of personal preference wether the insta warps ruin your gameplay experience or not. Just because people have the option doesn't mean it doesn't effect them, the option really does take out all the "Point" of walking.

Sure you can still walk...but why? It's not rewarding anymore like it used to be. Walking to somewhere used to have a point "To get there in one peice" but now that that's invalidated with the airships it really isn't rewarding or even really has a point to be being done. There isn't anything to really see if your just going from city-city, nor is it dangerous, nor is it engaging at all currently.

I can see why people want the warp, I'm still not really bought on the fact that nobody has "The time" to get to places...but I understand the mentality of many who just want to bang out everything as fast as possible. I think it's unhealthy for the game for people to be able to do this...but I understand why they want to be able to do it. People treat MMO's like work more and more nowdays, it's all about maximizing your time/productivity instead of getting wrapped up in a world where you get to forget about how hard you worked, or how crappy your day was.

It's a different mentality between I and the people who want the stuff right away, and I'm sure those people who want instant airships all have their own lines they will draw in the sand eventually and say "That's enough"

I've put my point across that I think a more dynamic world should be worked on before introducing ways to bypass the empty world we currently play in, it's just encouraging the developers to keep pushing work on the overworld back farther and farther when they know they can keep people happy by allowing them to bypass the world.

I don't want the game to become a giant series of instanced content...

But really I hope the people argueing circles around eachother can really just accept that there are two sides to this arguement and no matter what you say the other side isn't listening, nor is either side "Right" it's a matter of preferences...yes that includes involving a "Choice" the option to never have that "Choice" is my preference, because it effect my gameplay experience in a way I don't want it too.