Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

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Originally Posted by Vandark

I wouldn't even care if they added cool stuff from XI half a year or more down the road, if they ever added it I would defiantly play that content and there is an audience for it other wise topics like this wouldn't even exist.

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Yes, topics made by and agreed to by a very miniscule percentage of the population, how is that indicative of an audience worth targeting and catering to? So, I ask again. Show me where this audience is lurking? Imagining an audience is out there based on the forums is laughable. As only a small part of the playerbase even use the forums. even less actually post, and out of those, only a handful agreee that FFXIV should be more like FFXI.

More classic FF content is coming. I love how CM gives me more of a classic final fantasy feeling. Golden saucer is planned and coming soon. There already are things from FFXI in game already, you see as soon as you create a character. So FFXIV is shaping up to be taking things from all previous FF titles. Not just one of them.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So FFXIV is shaping up to be taking things from all previous FF titles. Not just one of them.

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Taking places/names from other FF. Still plays/feels like every mmo out there.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

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Yes only the minority of the playerbase is using the Forum but there is no Poll or anything like this what Shows what People really want.

A MMORPG isnt a singleplayer game, its a game to meet new Friends or Play with your friends it should force People to become a part of the Community and build up a Core of Players (big FC's or LS's) but the DEVs have to create such Content also.

I mentioned some Posts before that such MMO's like ARR now (Gear Progress etc..) doesnt have time to envolve because they have to bring up alot and Long Lasting Content from the beginning and the Content has to be designed that way that it is impossible to clear it within a certain period of time or to get that Gear that fast.

All yoshi had to do was keeping the RNG Thing back we had in 1.23 sure get rid of Speed runs and stuff but the droprate was fair enough and kept the endgame Players of 1.23 busy enough. Its only the "Special" community they want to have everything with less or no effort but ask the Players like me to be patient or enjoy the solo stuff which i am not rly care for because i Play a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Play Game
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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Yes, topics made by and agreed to by a very miniscule percentage of the population, how is that indicative of an audience worth targeting and catering to? So, I ask again. Show me where this audience is lurking? Imagining an audience is out there based on the forums is laughable. As only a small part of the playerbase even use the forums. even less actually post, and out of those, only a handful agreee that FFXIV should be more like FFXI.

More classic FF content is coming. I love how CM gives me more of a classic final fantasy feeling. Golden saucer is planned and coming soon. There already are things from FFXI in game already, you see as soon as you create a character. So FFXIV is shaping up to be taking things from all previous FF titles. Not just one of them.

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-Apparently 233 people who bothered to check this topic from the already small amount who venture in these forums, thousands who play XI and prefer that game over XIV for the exact reasons talked about.
-Only a portion of players here could be said to have the opposite opinion that XIV wouldn't benefit from some XI related content. What evidence do you have to support your claims of it not being beneficial for ARR and not wanted among a large audience?
-Most people don’t even understand the real reasons the first FF14 failed, it wasn’t for the most part because of the content itself but mainly because the majority of people couldn’t even run the game. Large amounts of the player base who remained and became legacy enjoyed the old content, that’s a large amount of the community who would likely enjoy some of this type of content re introduced and yes I'm talking about the content that wasn't brought over to ARR.
- Basically anyone who enjoyed the old XI content and XIV content would more than likely enjoy it once more, that is a huge amount of players worth catering to.

Your saying that SE abandon there old player base and simply replace them designing content to suit a new audience without trying to keep there current audience in the process. Sounds like a bad plan to me, when if developed correctly would most certainly improve the game at large.

Why not designee a game that takes the best from all there worlds and make an ultimate experience for everyone!

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Tanaka, he said himself he wanted FFXIV to be different from FFXI to the point that you preferred one or the other. Hell, they even offered a subscription model that discounted both FFXI/FFXIV if you had both activated. As you know, 1.xx failed, however, the idea of preference didn't change. People who enjoy the Everquest, older style of game still have FFXI to play and it is still pumping content. Or you can go on the modern, WoW-like concept and play ARR. Don't pretend SE owes anything to the FFXI community through FFXIV, because you are dead wrong there.

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Just so you know Tanaka's vision also maintained the same sense of adventure the game was incredibly immersive and IMO it maintained many of the good aspects XI had, to me Tanaka's vision still felt like another Final Fantasy MMO title where as I don't feel ARR plays or feels at all like one.
Also we have actually lost that cheaper sub for XI, that has been taken away from us, we no longer get XI cheaper for having an active XIV-ARR sub.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

-Apparently 233 people who bothered to check this topic from the already small amount who venture in these forums, thousands who play XI and prefer that game over XIV for the exact reasons talked about.

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Thats 233 times it's been checked, not 233 individual people.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

-Only a portion of players here could be said to have the opposite opinion that XIV wouldn't benefit from some XI related content. What evidence do you have to support your claims of it not being beneficial for ARR and not wanted among a large audience?

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Proof? Population of FFXI and it's peak compared to the population of FFXIV. Pretty compelling numbers leaning one way. Also no one would be crazy to change direction to please a potential, as you claim, thousands new players whilst riding roughshod over the 100s of thousands already playing. Ask SOE how that worked out for them with SWGs CU then the NGE. 1.0 failed, full stop. ARR has, upto now, been successful.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

-Most people don’t even understand the real reasons the first FF14 failed, it wasn’t for the most part because of the content itself but mainly because the majority of people couldn’t even run the game. Large amounts of the player base who remained and became legacy enjoyed the old content, that’s a large amount of the community who would likely enjoy some of this type of content re introduced and yes I'm talking about the content that wasn't brought over to ARR.

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Or because it was terrible? Because there was no real road map or direction when SE decided to remake FFXIV altogether, which was decided in the first couple of months after release whilst it was still free to play. And that content that was actually added was a blatent overdone RNG time sink? To try and keep people payiing. Or you mean the XP parties that blitzed to 50? Hamlets? good idea, terribly implemented. Speed runs for the last chest? Segregated more players than it brought together due to strict job and build limitations imposed by the community to even see that content, same with primals.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

- Basically anyone who enjoyed the old XI content and XIV content would more than likely enjoy it once more, that is a huge amount of players worth catering to.

Your saying that SE abandon there old player base and simply replace them designing content to suit a new audience without trying to keep there current audience in the process. Sounds like a bad plan to me, when if developed correctly would most certainly improve the game at large.

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SE HAVN'T abandoned there old player base, they still have FFXI running. Plus still pumping out content, also if you read interviews they realise they made mistakes with certain expansions and are trying to turn it around, FFXIV was made for a NEW playerbase, to make FF MMOs accesable to a different demographic of players than FFXI does, and for those who no longer have the time needed to attain progression in games like FFXI was. SoE did the same with Everquest 1 to 2 and doing again with Everquest Next.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

Why not designee a game that takes the best from all there worlds and make an ultimate experience for everyone!

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Siimple reason, you can't please everyone and if FFXIV split into a multitude of directions all it would do is slow down content for everyone, making everyone unhappy for the sake of this crowd you think may magically appear.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Hate to break it to you. But most mmos that have come out over the years have just been clones. They haven't changed much at all. Well save for GW2, but that "failed" (in my opinion) due to going BACK on their manifesto and adding samey progression with some gear, and the fact that free server transfers killed pvp back in the day.

So yeah really haven't seen many "different" come out yet. It's the same "spam eq/wow style skinner boxes" that weve seen for quite a long time.

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If everyone who claims they want "different" really played and support games that were actually "different", then games like EVE, The Secret World, Guild Wars 2, Wakfu...would have WAY, WAY more players than they do currently. games like Ryzom would not have failed.

People don't want FFXI, they just want some of the advancement options and utility that FFXI had. For one thing, I'd greatly prefer open world, group oriented quests that raise the level cap as being a means for end game advancement over grinding gear in a dungeon or raid, as that is one of the worst features we've had in MMO RPGs in the last decade. Not to mention it makes a heck of a lot more sense that we'd absorb the primals power and be able to advance to a more powerful state than for a primal to drop a weapon he never carries or uses. Seriously, where do we get half of these primal weapons from? Does Titan use them for jewelry? And where does Garuda have these weapons?

The ultimate failing of the modern MMO RPG is it's lack of attention to integrating the elements of it's setting with the gameplay that we experience. That is something that the original Final Fantasy XI was more successful at. What we don't want is FFXI's comical class balance, leveling curve, etc.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Seriously, where do we get half of these primal weapons from? Does Titan use them for jewelry? And where does Garuda have these weapons?

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The same place Lizzy kept those boots and the Valkurm Emperor kept the hairpin. Suspension of disbelief is required when playing a fantasy game.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Post full of awesome truth.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The same place Lizzy kept those boots and the Valkurm Emperor kept the hairpin. Suspension of disbelief is required when playing a fantasy game.

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Keep in mind FFXI was born in an earlier time. These kinds of things were common in RPGs and having a weapon or item named after the monster that dropped it provides a connection, even if it is confusing how it ended up with it. The point is to learn from the past, not repeat it endlessly.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Thats 233 times it's been checked, not 233 individual people.

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Your also forgetting all the other forums in the past about this same subject which has been many and some actually had much more attention and likes than this. This has been a repeated thread because it has been seeked for a long time now.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Proof? Population of FFXI and it's peak compared to the population of FFXIV. Pretty compelling numbers leaning one way.

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Not really, many of the XI community that are even still playing MMO's at all are eather playing 14 or XI, many are playing 14 right now, some playing both. They take up a percentage of 14's community anyway, it would be interesting to know how many.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

No one would be crazy to change direction to please a potential, as you claim, thousands new players whilst riding roughshod over the 100s of thousands already playing.

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Lol I still don't understand why you would think anyone currently would stop playing because the game had more to do than just raid or que in for dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Or because it was terrible? Because there was no real road map or direction when SE decided to remake FFXIV altogether, which was decided in the first couple of months after release whilst it was still free to play. And that content that was actually added was a blatent overdone RNG time sink? To try and keep people payiing. Or you mean the XP parties that blitzed to 50? Hamlets? good idea, terribly implemented. Speed runs for the last chest? Segregated more players than it brought together due to strict job and build limitations imposed by the community to even see that content, same with primals.

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I'm not defending 1.0 in terms of it's flaws as back then I had many of my own issues with the game, but most of my problems back then were problems to do with lack of content then also, and the way the game didn't seem to run properly.

Speed runs for the last chest, can't say I liked that, I can agree with you there, I actually prefer the new dungeons to the old, the old dungeons gave me a head ake, it's the outside world stuff that I liked and miss.
I dunno about the strict job and build limitations imposed by the community, can't say I really agree, I made use of all the classes and jobs in the old 14 but in ARR I'm limited to only gearing a few jobs slowly so I feel much more limited in what jobs I can use. In the old FFXIV I was useing and gearing all my jobs in end game without any strict job limitations, every job had it's use even classes had more purpose back then, now classes are pretty much pointless. Those old primal fights were way more epic. I will never agree about exp partys being worse than the fate system for reasons said in previous posts.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

SE HAVN'T abandoned there old player base, they still have FFXI running.

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LMAO, XI still exsists so they didn't abandon us, wtf haha, the XI we all love is long gone and I for one loved the first XIV because it was a whole new experience for me but now even that has been taken away, I feel very abandoned, I had massive hopes for FF14 that all got flushed down the toilet in ARR. That is two of my Fav games that have been destroyed for me, I put years of my time into both, pored my time into the old FF14 wanting nothing but the best for it and I don't even want to know how much money I've spent on them both. For what, for everything I loved about them to be taken away? I would like some of that back, yes, very much so.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

FFXIV was made for a NEW playerbase, to make FF MMOs accesable to a different demographic of players than FFXI does

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XIV wasn't made originally to only appeal to a new playerbase that is why the original still had much of the same feel as XI did, Tanaka even said himself he wanted XI players to feel like they could also relate to the new game and it did feel that way untill yoshi tore it all to sheds instead of building onto it.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Siimple reason, you can't please everyone and if FFXIV split into a multitude of directions all it would do is slow down content for everyone, making everyone unhappy for the sake of this crowd you think may magically appear.

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There all around you and there just as hopeful as I am, some maybe even more, the real question is will they stick around.

I for one would prefer high quality content implemented slower over pointless content implemented at a fast pace.