Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

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Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd

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I'd say the opposite is true in regards to the exodus, at least from people I know. The grass isn't always greener, as the saying goes. XIV has a great story but many systems in the end game are quite shallow beyond an initial set of rewards (and if you don't want to do excessive grinding of every relic or getting achievements that require 1000s of collectibles turned in, for example). GW2 and other MMOs, while they've survived, have their own content cycles and ultimately their own quirks.

It's easy to pick on FFXIV and the community for selling the game as the best thing since sliced bread... but when you actually get past that initial learning curve and new player experience/feeling, you soon seen the flaws and areas of contention between developer and player. Class reworks are a strong area in which SE make changes that seemingly piss everyone off. Housing systems and various issues around it are a well beaten horse at this stage. Even the underlying server infrastructure and limitations placed on the game due to it are tired discussions at this stage. Any Viera or Hrothgar hat enjoyers in chat? The only advantage XIV has is age in that it's not yet reached the stage in which players just get aggressive towards the developers for repeat failing which is pretty much identical to WoW when it was at the same stage in it's lifecycle. If I had to make a prediction, long standing issues are only going to drive more toxicity between the developers and players of this game in the future.

There's also a few new MMOs on the horizon as well that'll throw themselves into the mix. Blue Protocol is due next year which is a Bandai Namco game being published alongside Amazon. There's the Riot Games MMO which is mostly a mystery but if they nail it like they nailed LoL and Valorant, it's going to be huge. Sony are producing "live service" titles under PlayStation with the fast being The Last of Us. They might not be MMOs in the traditional sense but they still tick a lot of the boxes even if they're closer to being like Destiny 2 or GTA Online than a traditional subscription based title.

FF14 has a good amount of content. I just don't think they're hitting the mark with most of it. How many of us are excited to spend the day on our Island Sanctuary, or digging into Criterion. Or spending more than 5-10 minutes a day on Tribe quests? Some people are, but it doesn't seem like the majority are excited for it. My FC and FL is yet again gone quiet.

FF14 is far from dead, but it seems to be holding new players for now mainly because of the hours of story and older content and holding older players temporarily because the raids are good. But after that there's really not much to the game. FF14 is just something I do on the side for raids and I no longer care about the bulk of the content they're pushing out, it's boring or there's no point investing into it. I like games you can invest into. Next patch is what ...recolored PotD again, 5 minute tribe quests, a craft set with nothing to make and MSQ with characters I don't care about?

I also don't get how caring about graphs and giving feedback is "hating the game and community". If anything, blindly ignoring statistics, stifling feedback and blindly arguing "the game is fine!" is hating the game and community because you try to bury problems, block opinions and push dissatisfied paying customers away. It does damage.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

FF14 has a good amount of content. I just don't think they're hitting the mark with most of it. How many of us are excited to spend the day on our Island Sanctuary, or digging into Criterion. Or spending more than 5-10 minutes a day on Tribe quests? Some people are, but it doesn't seem like the majority are excited for it. My FC and FL is yet again gone quiet.

FF14 is far from dead, but it seems to be holding new players for now mainly because of the hours of story and older content and holding older players temporarily because the raids are good. But after that there's really not much to the game. FF14 is just something I do on the side for raids and I no longer care about the bulk of the content they're pushing out, it's boring or there's no point investing into it. I like games you can invest into. Next patch is what ...recolored PotD again, 5 minute tribe quests, a craft set with nothing to make and MSQ with characters I don't care about?

I also don't get how caring about graphs and giving feedback is "hating the game and community". If anything, blindly ignoring statistics, stifling feedback and blindly arguing "the game is fine!" is hating the game and community because you try to bury problems, block opinions and push dissatisfied paying customers away. It does damage.

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Where is it ever implied that arguments made from the graph posted was "hating the game and community"? All Im pointing out is that the graph to me doesnt look like whats being represented with the numbers.

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Originally Posted by Johners

I'd say the opposite is true in regards to the exodus, at least from people I know. The grass isn't always greener, as the saying goes. XIV has a great story but many systems in the end game are quite shallow beyond an initial set of rewards (and if you don't want to do excessive grinding of every relic or getting achievements that require 1000s of collectibles turned in, for example). GW2 and other MMOs, while they've survived, have their own content cycles and ultimately their own quirks.

It's easy to pick on FFXIV and the community for selling the game as the best thing since sliced bread... but when you actually get past that initial learning curve and new player experience/feeling, you soon seen the flaws and areas of contention between developer and player. Class reworks are a strong area in which SE make changes that seemingly piss everyone off. Housing systems and various issues around it are a well beaten horse at this stage. Even the underlying server infrastructure and limitations placed on the game due to it are tired discussions at this stage. Any Viera or Hrothgar hat enjoyers in chat? The only advantage XIV has is age in that it's not yet reached the stage in which players just get aggressive towards the developers for repeat failing which is pretty much identical to WoW when it was at the same stage in it's lifecycle. If I had to make a prediction, long standing issues are only going to drive more toxicity between the developers and players of this game in the future.

There's also a few new MMOs on the horizon as well that'll throw themselves into the mix. Blue Protocol is due next year which is a Bandai Namco game being published alongside Amazon. There's the Riot Games MMO which is mostly a mystery but if they nail it like they nailed LoL and Valorant, it's going to be huge. Sony are producing "live service" titles under PlayStation with the fast being The Last of Us. They might not be MMOs in the traditional sense but they still tick a lot of the boxes even if they're closer to being like Destiny 2 or GTA Online than a traditional subscription based title.

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Yeah I agree. A lot of the issues present in XIV atm are due to the Devs refusing to listen. And it amazes me because when Bungie did it, they were wrong, when Blizz did it, they were wrong, when Bandai did it, they were wrong. Like if you look at any and ALL game developers when they do exactly what SE and Yoshi P are doing right now. They. Are. Wrong. Why do we give them so much leeway.

And before anyone says anything, No they are no transparent. THey give us vague statements. They half answer questions and ignore everyone lately, JP, EU, and NA. They can't keep up with their own game. This isn;t doom saying either, it's just looking at whats going on.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

FF14 has a good amount of content. I just don't think they're hitting the mark with most of it. How many of us are excited to spend the day on our Island Sanctuary, or digging into Criterion. Or spending more than 5-10 minutes a day on Tribe quests? Some people are, but it doesn't seem like the majority are excited for it. My FC and FL is yet again gone quiet.

FF14 is far from dead, but it seems to be holding new players for now mainly because of the hours of story and older content and holding older players temporarily because the raids are good. But after that there's really not much to the game. FF14 is just something I do on the side for raids and I no longer care about the bulk of the content they're pushing out, it's boring or there's no point investing into it. I like games you can invest into. Next patch is what ...recolored PotD again, 5 minute tribe quests, a craft set with nothing to make and MSQ with characters I don't care about?

I also don't get how caring about graphs and giving feedback is "hating the game and community". If anything, blindly ignoring statistics, stifling feedback and blindly arguing "the game is fine!" is hating the game and community because you try to bury problems, block opinions and push dissatisfied paying customers away. It does damage.

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The 14 community Denies it's history, at least in NA, and pushes away anyone being Critical of the game. As much as I like and enjoy the Devs, and Yoshi P. Ishikawa, Soken, Foxclon, and Koji Fox are figure heads. While these people do work on the game, the Parasocial relationship we have with them doesn't change that the Devs are lacking hard. Everytime since back in 2.0, people wanna defend them from the Truth.

Why is it that Yoshi P has always had a bad schedule for pushing out promised content since back then, and every attempt to talk about it was ignored and pushed down upon. Why is it that Diadem has been reworked multiple times, but the moment you say the same for Deep Dungeons, people say its fine as is. Diadem is Living Proof that the devs don;t listen to what we want. What the game needs is clear communication with the players. An NA and EU team, based in those regions for feed back to take directly to the Devs. People from the company Active on these forums, because the community Managers have been inactive on ALL forums, EU, NA and JP.

We need to be more truthful and honest and objective on whats wrong in the game. This isn;t me saying the game doesn;t have good, but why praise them for the little good thats here? That's not how to teach anyone how to be and do better. Yoshi P always asks us to give feed back and say whats bad, but when we do, the community either makes it impossible to talk about, OR the devs just ignore it. These are issues.

Edit: Also even if people Disagree, WHY do you always wanna push it down, The DEVS NEED TO SEE all forms of feed back. if you think your feed back is better, you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

The 14 community Denies it's history, at least in NA, and pushes away anyone being Critical of the game. As much as I like and enjoy the Devs, and Yoshi P. Ishikawa, Soken, Foxclon, and Koji Fox are figure heads. While these people do work on the game, the Parasocial relationship we have with them doesn't change that the Devs are lacking hard. Everytime since back in 2.0, people wanna defend them from the Truth.

Why is it that Yoshi P has always had a bad schedule for pushing out promised content since back then, and every attempt to talk about it was ignored and pushed down upon. Why is it that Diadem has been reworked multiple times, but the moment you say the same for Deep Dungeons, people say its fine as is. Diadem is Living Proof that the devs don;t listen to what we want. What the game needs is clear communication with the players. An NA and EU team, based in those regions for feed back to take directly to the Devs. People from the company Active on these forums, because the community Managers have been inactive on ALL forums, EU, NA and JP.

We need to be more truthful and honest and objective on whats wrong in the game. This isn;t me saying the game doesn;t have good, but why praise them for the little good thats here? That's not how to teach anyone how to be and do better. Yoshi P always asks us to give feed back and say whats bad, but when we do, the community either makes it impossible to talk about, OR the devs just ignore it. These are issues.

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Cant "like" this enough
100% spot on.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Where is it ever implied that arguments made from the graph posted was "hating the game and community"? All Im pointing out is that the graph to me doesnt look like whats being represented with the numbers.

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In my post... I outright said so. Maybe hate is a little strong. I feel like too much time and energy is spent on things like that and bringing it to people's attention. People aren't posting that kind of info because they love the game and want to help it. They're flat out being toxic, hoping other people will see the supposed decline and start to worry and look for another game. To those people I would say they need to get a better hobby or find a better game to occupy their time.

It's not like the devs don't have this info, so what's the real purpose behind these graphs? There's nothing people can really do with that info that's constructive.

Where does one even find good constructive feedback in this thread? Which are the comments that give a clear direction for ways to improve the game? You can't just say "more midcore" and expect even the players to know what it is you want.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Edit: Also even if people Disagree, WHY do you always wanna push it down, The DEVS NEED TO SEE all forms of feed back. if you think your feed back is better, you're doing it wrong.

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This is simply a woe is me and victim complex. Seeing this official forums are overwhelmingly negative, both in term of thread created and posters I fail to see where this "push down" narrative come from.

Most of the time I see complain, they try to make it they're representing a majority. But when they got counter, they cried they're being silent also by majority. So which is it? Are you a majority or not a majority? You can not have a cake and eat it too. You don't want to see all form of feedback, you want to see only the one you agree with.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

This is simply a woe is me and victim complex. Seeing this official forums are overwhelmingly negative, both in term of thread created and posters I fail to see where this "push down" narrative come from.

Most of the time I see complain, they try to make it they're representing a majority. But when they got counter, they cried they're being silent also by majority. So which is it? Are you a majority or not a majority? You can not have a cake and eat it too. You don't want to see all form of feedback, you want to see only the one you agree with.

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And that will be the case no matter what. It would help if we had a community person that watch the forums that moderate it but however they stepped down back in heaven ward. I can agree with you where there are some malice is some of the forum post however i can also say that there our general concern and feedback. Should we take for instance the housing as a example. Speaking for myself i have a house but i wouldn't mind having instance housing for myself and others.

People even on here will defend that the lottery system is the best thing. Such as this gem here https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ou-wanted-this. I can say i didn't want this and i prefer people to get a house. but people like rng that bad.

Or take in consideration with this teir of raiding. Since you do raid with multiple alts before the patch you should know what i am referring to. During that time somebody made a post about https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eded-thanks%21. I can agree with half this post but don't go about belittling people on how they should feel.

Another note keep in mind that some people thinks players of ffxiv is a cult. A soon as you talk bad about it you are going to get heat because of it

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

The 14 community Denies it's history, at least in NA, and pushes away anyone being Critical of the game. As much as I like and enjoy the Devs, and Yoshi P. Ishikawa, Soken, Foxclon, and Koji Fox are figure heads. While these people do work on the game, the Parasocial relationship we have with them doesn't change that the Devs are lacking hard. Everytime since back in 2.0, people wanna defend them from the Truth.

Why is it that Yoshi P has always had a bad schedule for pushing out promised content since back then, and every attempt to talk about it was ignored and pushed down upon. Why is it that Diadem has been reworked multiple times, but the moment you say the same for Deep Dungeons, people say its fine as is. Diadem is Living Proof that the devs don;t listen to what we want. What the game needs is clear communication with the players. An NA and EU team, based in those regions for feed back to take directly to the Devs. People from the company Active on these forums, because the community Managers have been inactive on ALL forums, EU, NA and JP.

We need to be more truthful and honest and objective on whats wrong in the game. This isn;t me saying the game doesn;t have good, but why praise them for the little good thats here? That's not how to teach anyone how to be and do better. Yoshi P always asks us to give feed back and say whats bad, but when we do, the community either makes it impossible to talk about, OR the devs just ignore it. These are issues.

Edit: Also even if people Disagree, WHY do you always wanna push it down, The DEVS NEED TO SEE all forms of feed back. if you think your feed back is better, you're doing it wrong.

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Truth be told, to me anyways that alot of people that just joined the game find it more "fun" as for the veteran players has no say in it. I will equate to my job sadly. Its all about the new player experience. I know it shouldn't have to be but that how it feels