Highly Notorious Monsters

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

You should never eliminate content that so many obviously have interest in solely due to the fact that someone may find a way to exploit the systems flaws. There are flaws in every system, and it is up to the developer to address, and solve those issues.

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Was going to say exactly what you just said.

If someone wants to eliminate botters/hackers just eliminate any desire to play the game, which SE did pretty well up until they announced 2.0.

Imo, I would prefer SE finding faster effective ways to remove botters from the game, rather then never implementing endless valuable content because there might be a chance 1 person could bot it.

Personally, I've never botted, and those who did never ruined 11 for me, and the bot/click crafters never ruined 14 for me.

If you read nothing else, read this: I'd love to have BCNMs and force pop HNMs in the game. That would be great and I want it. Please, do make this. What I DON'T want is world spawn HNMs with long repop timers and a high likelyhood for cheating- in short, everything that was wrong with HNM in FFXI.

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Do you have proof everyone botted and cheated tho?

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It happens. A lot. You can't tell me it doesn't happen. I didn't say *you* cheated, heck I wasn't even talking to you in this thread until now. That doesn't mean cheating didn't happen, and didn't happen often. That's the first thing anyone says: "Prove it!" There are actually people out there who gloated about botting (and they were the ones that eventually got banned, ah, sweet justice), and there were welll known programs being SOLD on the internet. The bots were there, the kind of people that would want to use them were there, you just put 2 and 2 together. Any other competitive desire should be suffiicently fufilled by who gets what drop within your group.

Again: this doesn't mean that everyone was cheating. But there was enough cheating to impact the game.

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We're not talking about bringing the FFXI HNMs in XIV as they were, but creating something new altogether.

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That's fine. But many people ARE talking about the old fashioned HNM system. And that's what I'm speaking against. I have nothing whatsoever against a new system that addresses the problems that FFXI had.

Any HNM system that is developed must be built with the possibility of cheating in mind. There are many great ways to implement bosses in the game that don't easily allow for any kind of cheating. World spawn pops with 24~72 hour pop times just aren't one of them.

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I don't know how for example Dark Ixion and Sandworm worked in XI, were they bottable despite of popping in different zones? I've assumed SE tried to counter botting with their design.

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These were some of the most interesting monsters of their kind, though there were people doing whatever they could to get a claim advantage, such as paying more money to have mules in every zone to more easily locate the NM- but that's not quite as bad as using actual cheats.

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You mean you have PvP for your competition needs and you don't need it elsewhere. Other people might prefer other kinds of competition between players and player groups, or like both. Each to their own.

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No. Not I / for my, and I. PvP offers more than enough ability to fill anybody's competitive desire. It's the WHOLE REASON PvP exists at all (or rather, will exist). Competing for a claim, and then not playing that day if you lose (if you're not one of the people who can devote their life to the game anyway) is not fun at all. I don't know how anyone can find that fun. If you were having fun, it's because you won claim consistently- odds are it was because your team had a botter.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Again: this doesn't mean that everyone was cheating. But there was enough cheating to impact the game.

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Oh definitely, no one can argue or deny that.

Which is why we have had so many people offer opinions on ways to avoid the narrow walkways that would bring botting/cheating/exploitation to this game. No one wants that.

Regardless of it takes a couple patches. Exempting huge amounts of content solely due to the fact that someone may find a way to temporarily exploit it would be negligent at best, imo. There can always be patches, and fixes to whatever problems they come up with.

But I agree with you, I do not want to see botting come into this game. Which is why I would ask you to offer us ideas, and comments on how we can operate an open-world HNM system that would not allow for botting/cheating/exploiting.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It happens. A lot. You can't tell me it doesn't happen. I didn't say *you* cheated, heck I wasn't even talking to you in this thread until now. That doesn't mean cheating didn't happen, and didn't happen often. That's the first thing anyone says: "Prove it!" There are actually people out there who gloated about botting (and they were the ones that eventually got banned, ah, sweet justice), and there were welll known programs being SOLD on the internet. The bots were there, the kind of people that would want to use them were there, you just put 2 and 2 together.

Again: this doesn't mean that everyone was cheating. But there was enough cheating to impact the game.

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I never said it didn't happen but your on here rampaging acting like 100% of endgame ls did it when very few did. Also if you didn't know GM's were present @ tons of popular camps sites staying unseen. I have personally witness plenty of botters get banned on the spot by a GM @ an camp. Like i said again the 3 second rule SE added to mob claims made it harder for bots to operate.

Just as a side note you will never get rid of botters in a game or RMT they go in hand and hand.

Edit: BTW op you do know we are getting our very first world NM in 2.0 tho right :)

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Originally Posted by Firon

I never said it didn't happen but your on here rampaging acting like 100% of endgame ls did it when very few did. Also if you didn't know GM's were present @ tons of popular camps sites staying unseen. I have personally witness plenty of botters get banned on the spot by a GM @ an camp. Like i said again the 3 second rule SE added to mob claims made it harder for bots to operate.

Just as a side note you will never get rid of botters in a game or RMT they go in hand and hand.

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95% of my linkshell botted every single day. Only people ever that got banned used speed hacks or POS.
You guys just better pray that you dont spend 4 years watching NMs being killed if you end up on the wrong side of the fence.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

95% of my linkshell botted every single day. Only people ever that got banned used speed hacks or POS.
You guys just better pray that you dont spend 4 years watching NMs being killed if you end up on the wrong side of the fence.

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that's nice to know but I have out claim many botters plenty of time i claimed over 50 faf's/ 20 nidhogs and i'm sure there were plenty of botter's there.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

95% of my linkshell botted every single day. Only people ever that got banned used speed hacks or POS.
You guys just better pray that you dont spend 4 years watching NMs being killed if you end up on the wrong side of the fence.

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We don't plan on it, as we don't want a copy+paste of XI's bottable system.

I'm sure there are ways to nullify botting, and create a system that promotes healthy competition between linkshells, but doesn't allow botting/cheating/exploiting, etc.

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I never said it didn't happen but your on here rampaging acting like 100% of endgame ls did it when very few did.

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Absolutely not. Only a few linkshells did it- but they won nearly every time they were there- That's more than enough to eventually ruin it for everyone else (of course, if the drop rates weren't so abysmal, those botters might not have stuck around as long, but that's probably another topic)

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

We don't plan on it, as we don't want a copy+paste of XI's bottable system.

I'm sure there are ways to nullify botting, and create a system that promotes healthy competition between linkshells, but doesn't allow botting/cheating/exploiting, etc.

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Your signature is in conflict with what you want. I'm still waiting for a way to have world spawn NMs without any potential for abuse. Frankly, I think the probelm is potentially worse for FFXIV because claim doesn't prevent people from attacking a monster. Thus people can mess with enmity and such to ruin your fight. Any HNM in the open world just has to be in an instance or it's going to be chaos.

I don't support open-world HNMs unless you can show me a clear, concise way to have them without any of the problems that existed in FFXI. I DO support instanced HNMs, BCNMs and other fights that you don't have to compete with other people for the right to attempt.

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that's nice to know but I have out claim many botters plenty of time i claimed over 50 faf's/ 20 nidhogs and i'm sure there were plenty of botter's there.

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Just because botting wasn't a 100% guarantee, doesn't mean it wasn't a problem.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

We don't plan on it, as we don't want a copy+paste of XI's bottable system.

I'm sure there are ways to nullify botting, and create a system that promotes healthy competition between linkshells, but doesn't allow botting/cheating/exploiting, etc.

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This is SE, every time they attempted they failed.