Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

So by definition, a DPS signed up to do damage, so they should not use any supportive or mitigation skills ever?

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Correct! Especially when usage of said skills comes at a minor but still significant dps loss in the eyes of the community. BRD/MCH almost never actually need to use their support skills either, because MOAR DEEPS. And tanks for some reason are never pressured to exit tank stance despite the fact that it's superfluous and useless once you have aggro. It's just healers that get the static and rage!

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Might want to reread the last few posts. I said DPSing as a healer is obnoxiously boring and braindead, and can be competently achieved by being semi AFK.

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So why not do it??

Cleric Stance is like alcohol. Use it responsibly.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

...I hate healers that DPS and wish SE would slap even bigger penalties for using Cleric, like a 20 second lockout or a hefty resource cost like Grit. How does this sound like I support the healer dps meta I want dead?

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Dungeon queues would become unbearable and unfairly penalizes people who like to bounce between DPS and healing. You accomplish the same overall goal by simply increasing the outgoing damage. People capable of balancing the two will inevitably find those moments to DPS but it won't be nearly as frequent as it is now.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Correct! Especially when usage of said skills comes at a minor but still significant dps loss in the eyes of the community. BRD/MCH almost never actually need to use their support skills either, because MOAR DEEPS. And tanks for some reason are never pressured to exit tank stance despite the fact that it's superfluous and useless once you have aggro. It's just healers that get the static and rage!

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In raid scenarios, you'll be yelled at even more if you keep up tank stance. Likewise for Ninja, Bard and Machinist not using their support. Healers are targeted in dungeons because it's far more noticeable to see someone standing around compared to a Dark Knight keeping on Grit.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Correct! Especially when usage of said skills comes at a minor but still significant dps loss in the eyes of the community. BRD/MCH almost never actually need to use their support skills either, because MOAR DEEPS. And tanks for some reason are never pressured to exit tank stance despite the fact that it's superfluous and useless once you have aggro. It's just healers that get the static and rage!

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Actually during phase changes and when the boss is immune to damage, it is very common for BRD/MCH to restore mana. You see this in Savage mostly, but many DPS do in fact use their supportive skills as it is a DPS gain for the entire party when there is less pressure on the healers and/or teammates. When I did A2S, myself (SCH) and our WHM would spam our AoE rotation and be very low after I think the sixth or so mob pack. Our MCH would give us Mana for a little while so we could recover. Now myself using Blizzard 2 against upwards of 8 enemies is 50 x 8 potency every CD. It is very significant when paired with baned DoTs. Similarly, Holy, is just good damage, along with Aero 3. However Blizzard 2 and Holy are costly, especially when spammed over a certain period. The DPS gained from myself and the WHM going all out was a net gain when the MCH took time to gave us mana later.

So it's not always DPS MOAR to do more damage.

The roller coaster that is the healer situation either means healers are perfectly fine or is in dire need of change. Maybe the side that is still alive and able to pull the teeth out of their neck will be the true winning side.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Correct! Especially when usage of said skills comes at a minor but still significant dps loss in the eyes of the community. BRD/MCH almost never actually need to use their support skills either, because MOAR DEEPS. And tanks for some reason are never pressured to exit tank stance despite the fact that it's superfluous and useless once you have aggro. It's just healers that get the static and rage!

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Actually! The 10~% dps loss from using a mana turret is more than made up for by instances such as Holy/Gravity spam to the point of very low but manageable mana while temporarily under a turret. This is of course under Group DPS instead of personal DPS.

There's also lots of invulnerability phases in many fights where there's nothing better to do- kind of like when a teams healthy and a healer is standing around :^)

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Originally Posted by Rysir

The roller coaster that is the healer situation either means healers are perfectly fine or is in dire need of change. Maybe the side that is still alive and able to pull the teeth out of their neck will be the true winning side.

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Contrarily all the Healer DPS threads I've seen (A lot) seem to agree that the healing situation is not fine no matter which side looks at it. The conflict that exists is what people see fit to do with making the best out of a currently bad situation. You can either swim in the sludge wave or build a raft.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

So by definition, a DPS signed up to do damage, so they should not use any supportive or mitigation skills ever? Similarly, tanks signed up to tank enemies, so they are not expected to use any other damaging combos.

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Eh you are trying to over simplify, but the dps is there to dps, if using those extra abilities allows them to dps better or longer then yes they should be used. However, if using them hinders the groups progress then they should only be used when absolutely necessary i.e. specific mechanics designed for them. The healer is there to heal. So you heal first and foremost and ignore your dps. You have utility skills to use as well. Now with the healing taken care of and you have time to utilize the rest of your kit by all means use it. But expecting someone else to play the way you play because you feel that is how the class should be played is wrong assuming they are keeping the group alive.

Now if you want argue this in raids the situation changes, imo. Raids are designed typically with everyone bringing their full kit to bear.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Eh you are trying to over simplify, but the dps is there to dps, if using those extra abilities allows them to dps better or longer then yes they should be used. However, if using them hinders the groups progress then they should only be used when absolutely necessary i.e. specific mechanics designed for them. The healer is there to heal. So you heal first and foremost and ignore your dps. You have utility skills to use as well. Now with the healing taken care of and you have time to utilize the rest of your kit by all means use it. But expecting someone else to play the way you play because you feel that is how the class should be played is wrong assuming they are keeping the group alive.

Now if you want argue this in raids the situation changes, imo. Raids are designed typically with everyone bringing their full kit to bear.

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They are playing the class incorrectly however. By not using your entire kit, you are actually doing it wrong. If Healer A heals as well as Healer B but also does more damage, then it's not really an opinion anymore. Healer A's strategy is better because they accomplish all the goals and go the extra mile.

However when I am getting from this topic is that I am encouraged to auto eos in any non-savage content and do absolutely nothing above the bare minimum of keeping the party alive and tons of people will white knight me and pat me on the back for doing my job. DPS killed the boss before it enraged. No need to do anything more. Tank stay alive and held aggro. They did their job.

Since when did doing the absolutely minimum of a class someone deserve merit and validity?

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

They are playing the class incorrectly however. By not using your entire kit, you are actually doing it wrong. If Healer A heals as well as Healer B but also does more damage, then it's not really an opinion anymore. Healer A's strategy is better because they accomplish all the goals and go the extra mile.

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some extremes alot of healers just dont dps because to them extremes are hard, hence why its a nich piece of content, so Im not gona even get mad in extremes either if healers dont dps if they are just tryin to keep people alive. Some may not be able to manage both and as far as dungeons like I said this is as far as some players go period im willing to say half of the player base. For whatever reason they dont venture beyond doing dungeons, so i say give them a break if they are in their comfort zone then leave them the hell alone. Some players just can manage doing both better than others, why is it so hard for you to understand this