Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

Can you tell me the purpose of labeling a Gladiator with Red Mage title ?

We can already tell with 90% accuracy that Red Mage skills won't be equippable cross-class.

You can already equip Thaumaturge and Conjurer skills on your Gladiator you know (which is the rough equivalent of having a level 37 subjob if you want FFXI example). Your Paladin might even have "astral magic affinity trait" that will enhance these base spells.

And we don't know about weapons yet. Specialisations might not allow completely new weapons (only variants, ex: Marauder having Dark Knight job allows to use Scythes which is only a variant of a Great Axe) since the base classes are weapon specialists.

As far as we know, jobs only draw the line of a class roles, there are not classes.

You can take a look at this old chart that was made few months ago, that may be the kind of path SE is taking.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/gridv.png/

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Bigger Image Fix: http://a.yfrog.com/img638/4315/gridv.png

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Actually, that chart is giving each Job its own weapon. But take that away and the chart seems more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Can you tell me the purpose of labeling a Gladiator with Red Mage title ?

We can already tell with 90% accuracy that Red Mage skills won't be equippable cross-class.

You can already equip Thaumaturge and Conjurer skills on your Gladiator you know (which is the rough equivalent of having a level 37 subjob if you want FFXI example). Your Paladin might even have "astral magic affinity trait" that will enhance these base spells.

And we don't know about weapons yet. Specialisations might not allow completely new weapons (only variants, ex: Marauder having Dark Knight job allows to use Scythes which is only a variant of a Great Axe) since the base classes are weapon specialists.

As far as we know, jobs only draw the line of a class roles, there are not classes.

You can take a look at this old chart that was made few months ago, that may be the kind of path SE is taking.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/gridv.png/

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I think your misunderstanding what they said about jobs.

Job Actions: spells and skills only the Job itself can give you like White Mage's Benediction for instance, Can only be used if your job is White Mage.

It doesn't matter what you do with your weapon at that point the White Mage is what gives you those specific actions.

Then the White Mage limits what actions you can equip from all classes. If you equip White Mage you can't equip the black magic spells Conjurer knows, Even if you are a Conjurer.

So at this point it doesn't matter if you stay Conjurer or not so why keep the limitation in place?

In the end Once you assign a Job your Job Actions, and Class Actions/Cross-Class Actions get narrowed down into only a few select choices. After that the only thing your weapon does is define stats, and define how you do damage in a fight. If you use an Axe your physical attacks will mostly be AOE. if you us a Conjurer Staff your spells will cast AOE in a circle.

Etc.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Actually the OP stated that he doesn't want Jobs to be locked only to the Class that unlocks them. Pretty much take this example:



Not all classes can use any job, but think of the jobs in FFXI and how many weapons they could use. Apply that system to the game and that would make sense. Better than one class = 1 job only. That would be just an advanced class n top of a class.

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Huh o.o the OP want all Class to be allow to play every job meaning

Conj be allow to play any job as long as the person unlock monk with pugs Which then means if you level up conj you allow to use Monk on your conj because you unlock it on pug that what he wants,.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Huh o.o the OP want all Class to be allow to play every job meaning

Conj be allow to play any job as long as the person unlock monk with pugs Which then means if you level up conj you allow to use Monk on your conj because you unlock it on pug that what he wants,.

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What is wrong with that? Especially if you use a affinity system like so.

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As far as affinities, I believe if each skill should have a Favorable Class (The class that its learned from) And Cross Class (Skill from a different class) Designation.
But then also a Core Job (Job that focuses around this skill) Favorable Job (Job that can use this skill) Neutral Job (Job that is neither for or against the skill) and an Opposing Job (Job that normally can not use the skill)
Each of those statuses give a point.

Favored Class: 2
Cross Class: 1
Core Job: 3
Favored Job: 2
Neutral Job: 1
Opposing Job: -3

As an Example we'll use Conjurer / White Mage with the Skill Cure.

Conjurer for Cure is a Favored Class: it earns 2 Points
White Mage for Cure is a Core Job: it earns 3 points.

Total 5 Points:

Each point gives 20% Affinity: so Conjurer / White Mage can use Cure at 100% Affinity.

Then we take a look at.

Pugilist / Monk:

Pugilist is Cross Class for Cure: 1
Monk is Neutral for Cure: 1
Total is 2 Points:

Pugilist / Monk can use cure at 40% Affinity.

Now. If the Pugilist equips a Conjurers Affinity trait, he can push it to 50%.


Now we'll take a look at.

Thaumaturge / Black Mage:

Thaumaturge is a Cross Class for Cure : 1
Black Mage is an Opposing Job for Cure: -3
Total Points -2

Because you have to have positive affinity to equip the skill, and -2 points means -40% affinity.
Black Mage Can Not Equip Cure.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

What is wrong with that? Especially if you use a affinity system like so.

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It's not that anything is wrong with it, its just we don't want that.

You obviously do so its just a matter or how many people want a mish mash to add to the existing mish mash.

And how many want to add some restriction and specialisation to the existing mish mash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

What is wrong with that? Especially if you use a affinity system like so.

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once again -.- it make no sense that a COnj can be a samurai or a conj can be a PLD it's make no sense sorry i don't know how many time i have to say it.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/gridv.png/

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You have Musketeer branching off from Archer and Arcanist branching off from Thaumaturge. That doesn't make any sense. Those are classes, not jobs, they even have their class guilds already in LL. Musketeer is someone who uses muskets or guns how is that a specialization of an archer?

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

once again -.- it make no sense that a COnj can be a samurai or a conj can be a PLD it's make no sense sorry i don't know how many time i have to say it.

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Again. A Conjurer/Samurai wouldn't be the best choice but the game shouldn't enforce that by locking the choice out, it should enforce it with a system that properly balances those options so the player can determine if that choice is no good. Once it has been no player use it if its that bad.

Also You have to reflect on the issue that your character isn't just your class and your Job.

Its a mix of all kinds of things.

1. Weapon Class
2. Job
3. Assigned Stats
4. Physical Appearance through Gear
5. Assisted Stats through Gear.
6. Personal Choice.

The system you want wants to cut everything out of the equation and make the Character be about the first two only.

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Originally Posted by Carpe

You have Musketeer branching off from Archer and Arcanist branching off from Thaumaturge. That doesn't make any sense. Those are classes, not jobs, they even have their class guilds already in LL. Musketeer is someone who uses muskets or guns how is that a specialization of an archer?

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It isn't, its just evidence that people still confuse Class with Job and think they are synonymous when they are not.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

From a realistic point of view, it only REALLY works flawlessly as a system is if they're specialisations of the current classes. Job-specific armour won't work any other way, and it'll kill the old-school job-uniqueness idea they're shooting for if you can equip any armour under any class.

It's not really a personal preference of method because it's probably not the most exciting thing they could do. However, I think it's just the most reasonable way of looking at it by far. A gladiator who specialises in being a Red mage loses the ability to wear armour that either augments the base class, or the job. Besides, a gladiator using red mage -is not- a specialisation anyway, it would only serve to make an even more watery unclear system than what we have now.

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Well, in order for a Red Mage to be a Red Mage "traditionally" they need to be able to do a few things.

1. Use Swords.
2. Cast Black Magic.
3. Cast White Magic.
4. Gain a Doublecast/Chainspell like ability.

Now under the Armory System, a character can't fulfill #1 unless they are a Gladiator. The other things can be cross-classed in. Therefore, Red Mages have to be Gladiators. That's the stone-cold logic of the existing system.

Seems kinda unfair to Conjurers and Thaumaturges doesn't it?? They will NEVER be able to be Red Mages simply because they use twigs and legbones as their weapons.

Now I ask if that is what we want as a player base? If so, cool. Let The Development Team know. If not, also cool. Again, we need to let the Development Team know.