Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

I'm just saying, to back down now and please the wider audience would be defeating the purpose of a non conventional race - heck even to this day there are people who wish we got the original female Au Ra concept art, even if miss scalie Miqo over there is far more popular, it doesn't invalidate them wanting something different.

If they wanted to go for a non-human race but still round around within conventional beauty standards, they could've easily gone the Bless route of "basically taller Miqo" and save all the drama

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/74nUsHV00Yk/maxresdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

With ESO, it's a bit different. At least, unless they have changed things since the year and a half I last played. Races in ESO actually have their own racial passives, and there is a certain level of meta when making player races. There were/are objectively better races at their respective roles (stamina or magicka based). I'm not up to date with the meta there, so I don't know what is best currently for each class/role.

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Yeah, ESO stats are moot for a lot of reasons, but definitely because dark elf and khajiit are just BiS for pretty much everything right now.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Yeah, ESO stats are moot for a lot of reasons, but definitely because dark elf and khajiit are just BiS for pretty much everything right now.

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I'm surprised Khajiit isn't more popular then. Even being a beast race.

If dark elf was meta when I played, it'd probably be my main. More of my alts are dunmer though, ironically.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

If they wanted to go for a non-human race but still round around within conventional beauty standards, they could've easily gone the Bless route of "basically taller Miqo" and save all the drama

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Even if femhroth were to get a more beastlike head than that Bless variant, I don't think they also have to be as bulky as some of the wanted depictions.

Dunmer being superior, as things should be. On topic, I can definitely see fem Hrothgar being like Highlander Miqo'te and being mildly popular. If they go the fem Roe route, then it's going to be a waste of money and dev time.

I just to go on the record by saying that female Roegadyn is second to none; along with female Viera they're the most beautiful females in the game. Just want to make that clear.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Dunmer being superior, as things should be. On topic, I can definitely see fem Hrothgar being like Highlander Miqo'te and being mildly popular. If they go the fem Roe route, then it's going to be a waste of money and dev time.

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They will most definitely not be short and soft so they'd be a "waste" either way, might as well be a waste that makes sense

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm surprised Khajiit isn't more popular then. Even being a beast race.

If dark elf was meta when I played, it'd probably be my main. More of my alts are dunmer though, ironically.

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Very hard to pick apart the data because everyone (self included) has copies of several races and class combinations for pushing content depending on where the nerf hammers and buff winds land. My Godslayer prog group is 100% Khajiit, and our RL made jokes about everyone enjoying their ZOS assigned fursonas.

Then there's also just people who rerolled, because race change is $$, but those old capped races are still there. Getting to 50 is easy, so that's also not a good stat to follow. I will say just from my own observations that the most popular races are Khajiit, High Elf, and Dunmer. Just from all the Trial/PvP discords I'm in and scanning their comps.

Just a handful of Bosmer :( (PLEASE BUFF WOOD ELVES. WE ARE ARCHERS BY NATURE! OUR NICHE SHOULD BE BOW/BOW!!)

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm surprised Khajiit isn't more popular then. Even being a beast race.

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Few people play meta, they tend to focus on what they like playing. Example, I have quite a few Orc and Argonian characters alongside my Khajiit simply because I like how they look, I don't really care about meta.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

They will most definitely not be short and soft so they'd be a "waste" either way, might as well be a waste that makes sense

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Highlanders are short and soft? I think you have a skewed perspective my friend, but that's all too common in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Dunmer being superior, as things should be. On topic, I can definitely see fem Hrothgar being like Highlander Miqo'te and being mildly popular. If they go the fem Roe route, then it's going to be a waste of money and dev time.

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A waste of money and Dev time would be to give us the same slim Bodies we already have. To go through the effort to create something different, just to go back make them More of the Same thing we already have these Options for. Hyur, Elezen, Miqote, Au-ra, Viera, there is already 5 options right there for the same old "Traditional Beauty standard" and the "Conventionally Attractive" Body.
A Fanbase is still a fanbase, Hrothgar of either gender dont need to be All over the place like the Viera, Miqote or Female Au-ra to be a successful Race. Besides, it would be bloody boring if bloody everybody plays the same race. So Hrothgar only appealing to a Niche? PERFECT. Thats the purpose.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

I just to go on the record by saying that female Roegadyn is second to none; along with female Viera they're the most beautiful females in the game. Just want to make that clear.

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I dont agree with Viera being all that Pretty...
But I will Stand this Post for FemRoes. There are more good looking FemRoes then people are willing to admit in this Game. And with how few there are by comparrision to the other races, they stand out more when they appear.
The same can be done with FemHroth if they dont chicken out and go the Easymode route of Slim.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Highlanders are short and soft? I think you have a skewed perspective my friend, but that's all too common in this thread.

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Highlanders are also nowhere near as popular as Miqo, Au Ra, and even popotoes. By the notion of some people, anything that isn't short uwu kawaii waifu is a waste - heck, despite Viera being popular people still complained they're too masculine for being *gasp* tall and aloof! ...the audacity!

So male Hrothgar with boobs is going to get them the dosh eh? That's not a body shape, that's appealing to a fetish.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

So male Hrothgar with boobs is going to get them the dosh eh? That's not a body shape, that's appealing to a fetish.

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Now, why would that be a fetish? Care to elaborate on why a body type is sexual? I'd argue that the pin-up and model-esque body types of the most popular races are more fetishy than a bulky cat woman.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

So male Hrothgar with boobs is going to get them the dosh eh? That's not a body shape, that's appealing to a fetish.

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See nobody asking for muscular females is asking for Male Hrothgar with Boobs.
Nobody is asking for them to be build like refrigerators either.

There is plenty of fanart in this thread that illustrates what people like me are looking for, and its nothing like these silly Dismissive Memes that are getting thrown around.

And HELLO, Hrothgar by themselves could be seen as appealing to a fetish. But fetish is not the point or goal (not mine at least) i want something that isnt more of the same thing we already have in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

A waste of money and Dev time would be to give us the same slim Bodies we already have. To go through the effort to create something different, just to go back make them More of the Same thing we already have these Options for. Hyur, Elezen, Miqote, Au-ra, Viera, there is already 5 options right there for the same old "Traditional Beauty standard" and the "Conventionally Attractive" Body.
A Fanbase is still a fanbase, Hrothgar of either gender dont need to be All over the place like the Viera, Miqote or Female Au-ra to be a successful Race. Besides, it would be bloody boring if bloody everybody plays the same race. So Hrothgar only appealing to a Niche? PERFECT. Thats the purpose.

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Agreed; and honestly, as someone who expected not to like Hrothgar in general, I ended up playing one for a pretty good chunk of SHB. They might be "niche" but they have a strange amount of aesthetic range that ended up making them more popular than the refrigerators that Roe men are (in terms of active players). You see a lot of them trying to glam up in tough looks and armor, but there's an equal amount that look cute and soft wearing sweater glams and flower crowns despite being a bulkier race. Its hard to say those looks work as well on Roe or Highlanders; but I guess thats all opinion.

I don't see how the same couldn't be done for Hrothgals. They can be catered to a niche audience and still turn out great. ...trying to imagine the bulkier Hrothgals in the knit sweater and flower crown glam and I love it :)

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Now, why would that be a fetish? Care to elaborate on why a body type is sexual? I'd argue that the pin-up and model-esque body types of the most popular races are more fetishy than a bulky cat woman.

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Because it is extremely niche and outside the norm. Its a body shape they really doesn't occur naturally.

My big complaint with male Hrothgar, and someone I hope they fix with female Hrothgar, is that I hope one of their sleeping positions is curling into a little ball.

Something about a big ol' cat doing something we associate only with with cats is something I never tire of.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Because it is extremely niche and outside the norm. Its a body shape they really doesn't occur naturally.

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Are you trying to say that cat girls, which overwhelming exist only in less that sfw media, aren't a fetish? Or girls with lithe, tiny frames and a succubus associated designs aren't a fetish?

Just say you're not into it and move on. It's a bad look when your only argument is "but the sex weirdos".

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

See nobody asking for muscular females is asking for Male Hrothgar with Boobs.
Nobody is asking for them to be build like refrigerators either.

There is plenty of fanart in this thread that illustrates what people like me are looking for, and its nothing like these silly Dismissive Memes that are getting thrown around.

And HELLO, Hrothgar by themselves could be seen as appealing to a fetish. But fetish is not the point or goal (not mine at least) i want something that isnt more of the same thing we already have in FFXIV

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The fanart looks like what I am describing as male Hrothgar with boobs.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

The fanart looks like what I am describing as male Hrothgar with boobs.

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Then it is sad to say you have a very limited imagination.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Because it is extremely niche and outside the norm. Its a body shape they really doesn't occur naturally.

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Woman can have more wide and muscular bodies, and men can have smaller and more feminine bodies as well.
These types of bodies are natural on both sides. The degree of the shape can be tied to genetics, environment, diet as well as activity.

Hey how ever you have to justify it to yourself is cool, just be aware that's not likely the way SE is going to go. If they somehow do, well it'll turn out like FemRoe where it'll probably be a resource drain with no engagement or long term profit.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Hey how ever you have to justify it to yourself is cool, just be aware that's not likely the way SE is going to go. If they somehow do, well it'll turn out like FemRoe where it'll probably be a resource drain with no engagement or long term profit.

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Small bodies like 5 other race options doesnt guarantee Profit or popularity.

People talk about Male Hrothgar and how bad they are, yet they have a pretty big playerbase despite the complainants about "being to big" "just smaller MaleRoe" and "limited hair & headgear options.
YoshiP should push abit of body diversity here. If as he claimed that the Hrothgar are suppose to add variety and more diverse options...then prove it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Small bodies like 5 other race options doesnt guarantee Profit or popularity.

People talk about Male Hrothgar and how bad they are, yet they have a pretty big playerbase despite the complainants about "being to big" "just smaller MaleRoe" and "limited hair & headgear options.
YoshiP should push abit of body diversity here. If as he claimed that the Hrothgar are suppose to add variety and more diverse options...then prove it.

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Ehhhh... Au ra are the second most popular female race and viera 3rd going by active players whereas female roegadyn are barely even a blip on the radar and hrothgar are the 4th least played race/gender in the entire game only really edging out roegadyn

Doing some approximations and female roe account for something like 1.1% of the active player base, yikes i knew they were rare but not THAT rare

I love how now that the male Viera thread has accomplished its purpose all the "controversies" flew over here

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Originally Posted by Frooty

Doing some approximations and female roe account for something like 1.1% of the active player base, yikes i knew they were rare but not THAT rare

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Hrothgar and Elezen are nearly neck to neck on that site (which I have always found dubious). We also don't see data on what Hyur is since we can't really call Highlander and Midlander the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I love how now that the male Viera thread has accomplished its purpose all the "controversies" flew over here

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Maybe if Yoshi P makes good on his desire to better fill the PvP niche we can let off steam elsewhere :P

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I love how now that the male Viera thread has accomplished its purpose all the "controversies" flew over here

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No Controversies.
We haven't accused YoshiP or the Devs or SE of anything that would be an attack of them and their views or character.
Plus nobodies talking about how (artificially) important it is that we get Female Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Hrothgar and Elezen are nearly neck to neck on that site (which I have always found dubious). We also don't see data on what Hyur is since we can't really call Highlander and Midlander the same thing.

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Comparing it to the bancho census and theyre relatively similar, female highlanders seem to be as popular as female roe/elezen in their entirety (seawolf + hellsguard)

Male elezen may have more of an edge in this one but its still not that much of one

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Originally Posted by Frooty

Comparing it to the bancho census and theyre relatively similar, female highlanders seem to be as popular as female roe/elezen in their entirety (seawolf + hellsguard)

Male elezen may have more of an edge in this one but its still not that much of one

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The reason I want to bring it up is because I do want to focus on fem Elezen and fem Roe. The two big complaints people have with these models is their animations. Most fem Elezen players went to Viera (and I have a feeling a lot of male Elezen will do the same for m Viera). Lots of people who wanted to be female Elezen, but couldn't due to animations jumped on Viera. They share the same niche as tall, elf-like races but even with the limitations of customization Viera just move better.

fem Roes currently have one alternate choice for the tall, strong woman. If you don't like how fem Roe moves or how gear sits on them then tough luck! Unless you want to use fem Highlander, but they're still human. Humans, although usually the most popular choice in any mmo, don't hold the same appeal to everyone. I personally do not ever play humans, and I'll take as much "knock off human" as FF will allow me.

I'm in a camp where I think all of the original races need a face lift, or at least let us swap animations like we can with our sit/idle. I do believe that them just looking extremely stiff and uncomfortable all of the time is the bigger turn off than them being tall and muscular.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Now, why would that be a fetish? Care to elaborate on why a body type is sexual? I'd argue that the pin-up and model-esque body types of the most popular races are more fetishy than a bulky cat woman.

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Just wanted to step in to say that the word "fetish" is being tossed around strangely/ wrong here. A fetish is having an intense sexual arousal for things or parts of the body that are not typically deemed sexual. Common example is foot fetish and shoe fetish. There's also racial fetishism, which is very problematic.
People have tossed it around in place of saying they just have a kink, so most people don't really look into it and use it interchangeably now. A typical female form is not some fetish and shouldn't be seen as inherently sexualized (which I feel is the word you're looking for, but idk).

I believe the word Cauras is looking for is "appealing to a Kink".
And yes, when I read some posters here go on about wanting a large, beefed out, masculine shaped woman to "crush my skull between her thighs/ step on my spine until it's a fine power" (only 2 of a number of comments I've seen from some regs in this thread) then that at the very least reads as a kink (BDSM/ Femdom) and at most(?) could be Paraphilia (there's some grey area around the "non-medical" use of "Fetish" and Paraphilia. Extreme BDSM can become Paraphilia).

And there's nothing wrong with that, MV thread was very open about how much they wanted the MV bod to reflect what they find attractive. But at the end of the day, it's wanting your specific kink to be reflected in this option when the whole point of the race is simply "animal headed people". It's wanting them to reflect a niche within a niche at the close of the core focal group they need to appeal to. Just because someone's kink is more niche doesn't make it more viable or noble than another.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

snap.

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The problem with Femroe is that they look Masculine and the racial facial traits of RoeBros they were given (Wedge nose, small eye's ECT) are seen as fairly unattractive features for what it otherwise just a human face.
Animation and model wise, Elezen were boned because of 1.0. They didn't know how to properly scale the Middie model, and they had someone not-great animate them (even YP said that person no longer works there. But he also said that some Elezen may like the race for those animations so they can't take that way from them).

Femroe and Highlander females were added in 2.0 and their model/ animation quality reflects this. They animate well and the things they wear fit them without problem. Thing is, the only thing unique about Highlander is that they're the "taller, more athletic, not as cute" human clan, so that's not really much of a stand-out choice. They're ... just humans. For Femroe, they have masculine measurements ... so they look manly. This isn't just from having muscle, it's in the shoulders/ waist/ hips ratio. This mean that they commonly look like men in most gear. That's why they look "uncomfortable" doing the girly animations they share with other races or wearing so much gear.
They have carved out a niche for that with Futa RP but by a huge margin they are the least picked thing in this game, and it's because of looking masculine and having unconventionally attractive facial features.
This is why I've been saying for the longest that the devs would likely look at highlanders and Viera for body shapes to build Hrothgals, cause if you want to make an animal headed female then that's a rather strong choice from the player. Very likely don't want to saddle them with the same Femroe problem of "Oh yeah, hope you like looking like a male in most things in this game".

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Just because someone's kink is more niche doesn't make it more viable or noble than another.

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I was using language from the thread, but you're absolutely right!

I am also glad you brought up the MV thread because I'm getting kind of tired of this coming up only when people ask for body types that don't fit stereotypical norms. As a woman who has had a much bigger frame in the past, I am well aware of how people talk about bodies, and how the counterpoint of "they're appealing to people's fetish/kink" always comes up when these bodies get brought up for customization.

You can design a cool race without having to sexualize it. That is my big issue with alot of these fan arts and proposed designs is that they are blatantly sexual. Not thinking how animations, proportions and how gear sits on the model within the art style of 14. That is one of the issues that plague Roes: bad animations, poor proportions and gear sitting on the model like trash.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

You can design a cool race without having to sexualize it. That is my big issue with alot of these fan arts and proposed designs is that they are blatantly sexual. Not thinking how animations, proportions and how gear sits on the model within the art style of 14. That is one of the issues that plague Roes: bad animations, poor proportions and gear sitting on the model like trash.

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That proves the difference in mindsets here.
As Ive pointed out, fetish is not my goal or the point. Wider/more muscle is a look I like on a Girl sometimes, but its not for any sexual or fetish reason. How they animate, is a choice on the devs, because these bodytypes can function just fine in both the real world and in the virtual world.
Roes Animate just fine, but this is one of those "Your Opinion" things.

Some gear doesn't look as good as others, this is a fact.
ShB Dancer Veteran Gear does not look as good on a Femroe. Ah well, either they will make a new Dancer glam that will look better, or ill suck it up and find a new look.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

And HELLO, Hrothgar by themselves could be seen as appealing to a fetish.

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I still can't believe that's a thing.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Highlanders are also nowhere near as popular as Miqo, Au Ra, and even popotoes. By the notion of some people, anything that isn't short uwu kawaii waifu is a waste - heck, despite Viera being popular people still complained they're too masculine for being *gasp* tall and aloof! ...the audacity!

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There's different precadent though. The addition of female hrothgar would be a newly added race, after it has been said in interviews how costly adding any more is. Like I said on a previous page, it makes sense that viera was chosen over them, not once, but twice!

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

If they somehow do, well it'll turn out like FemRoe where it'll probably be a resource drain with no engagement or long term profit.

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Unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Small bodies like 5 other race options doesnt guarantee Profit or popularity.

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Them being a full on beast race, probably means they wouldn't be as popular right off the bat, but having a a very niche bodytype?

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I love how now that the male Viera thread has accomplished its purpose all the "controversies" flew over here

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I've been posting about the same thing in this thread for over two years now.

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Originally Posted by Frooty

Comparing it to the bancho census and theyre relatively similar, female highlanders seem to be as popular as female roe/elezen in their entirety (seawolf + hellsguard)

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I think a highlander bodytype could look quite good on femhroth. :)

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I still can't believe that's a thing.

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Well believe it, its been a thing for quite a long time, way before Hrothgar in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Well believe it, its been a thing for quite a long time, way before Hrothgar in FFXIV.

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I'll say. *looks at Egyptian mythology*

I miss when furries were acceptable targets on the internet. Those were the days.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I miss when furries were acceptable targets on the internet. Those were the days.

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So today? XD

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think a highlander bodytype could look quite good on femhroth. :)

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Agree personally, they have a very good balance of muscle and curve and most importantly i never found a single piece of gear that looked awkward on them whereas roe (and to a lesser extent elezen) looked bad (or at least not as good) in most of the gear i used

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'll say. *looks at Egyptian mythology*

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Incorrect, Kemetic (egyptia) culture had nothing to do with furry fetish nor is it a mythology. The ones that engaged in furry behavior were the romans.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Incorrect, Kemetic (egyptia) culture had nothing to do with furry fetish nor is it a mythology. The ones that engaged in furry behavior were the romans.

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Nothing with Talking or Anthropomorphic Animals have anything to do with Furry Culture.
The Furry Culture abducts it into their culture. And those that dont know any better just call it Furry shit.

Rocket Racoon has NOTHING to do with the Furry Culture. But once the MCU made him look cool, here comes the Furries to take hold of it.