PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

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Max DPS in 4 GCDs (GCD only skills) :
Stone 3: 530 MP
Aero I: 353 MP
Aero II: 442 MP
Aero III: 707 MP
Total: 2032 MP

Max Healing in 4 GCDs (GCD only skills):
Cure: 442 MP
Cure II: 884 MP
Regen: 618 MP
Medica II: 1502 MP
Total: 3446 MP

What are you even on about? It costs less to DPS for 4 GCDs than it does to get max raw healing on a single target in 4 GCDs. Even at 70, it's going to cost less, because Aero II will replace Aero I.

Don't try to be shady when you don't even know the math yourself.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Max DPS in 4 GCDs (GCD only skills) :
Stone 3: 530 MP
Aero I: 353 MP
Aero II: 442 MP
Aero III: 707 MP
Total: 2032 MP

Max Healing in 4 GCDs (GCD only skills):
Cure: 442 MP
Cure II: 884 MP
Regen: 618 MP
Medica II: 1502 MP
Total: 3446 MP

What are you even on about? It costs less to DPS for 4 GCDs than it does to get max raw healing on a single target in 4 GCDs. Even at 70, it's going to cost less, because Aero II will replace Aero I.

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Your ignoring the durations of most of those heals and that a lot of the time you don't need to spam Cure 2. Freecast procs quite frequently too.

People don't use Aero 1 much since its total potency is the same as Stone 3. Not really worth putting it on apart from when trying to work an off GCD into the rotation.

In short your maths is broken. Your not taking into account how healing is actually played. Your applying dps logic to healing. Healing is about healing enough and meeting a quota not spamming maximum healing output, particularly in this game where healing potency is overpowered. Also that isn't really Max healing. Max healing you wouldn't be using Cure.

Personally I rarely run out of mana healing unless I am healing stupid. I run out of it plenty dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Your ignoring the durations of most of those heals and that a lot of the time you don't need to spam Cure 2. Freecast procs quite frequently too.

People don't use Aero 1 much since its total potency is the same as Stone 3. Not really worth putting it on apart from when trying to work an off GCD into the rotation.

In short your maths is broken. Your not taking into account how healing is actually played. Your applying dps logic to healing.

Personally I rarely run out of mana healing unless I am healing stupid. I run out of it plenty dpsing.

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I run out of mp DPSing when with DPS that can't dps *

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

In the A12N normal that I described, there were zero dps issues. The healers were not good, at all. They didn't time their heals properly so the cleave->tankbuster->cleave killed me, the MT, then the dps with top aggro died, then the OT died, all because of lack of heals.

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How do you get to 60 without nowing how to heal hp correctly? O_o it is not like dps where .5 sec off =500+ dps loss.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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The fact of the matter is, a healer spamming Cure II is doing much less for the party, and themselves, than a healer who uses what they need to but provides DPS to the group. I have had it time and time again where I've seen a healer use Lustrate on a target that took 1000 damage, or a White Mage using Cure II on a target that took 500 damage, instead of a Cure I. At this point, I hate overhealing, and that's why I'm using overhealing as an example here.

I've never had a point where I've ran out of MP purely because of DPS, it's always someone dying that causes me to run dry.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

The fact of the matter is, a healer spamming Cure II is doing much less for the party, and themselves, than a healer who uses what they need to but provides DPS to the group. I have had it time and time again where I've seen a healer use Lustrate on a target that took 1000 damage, or a White Mage using Cure II on a target that took 500 damage, instead of a Cure I. At this point, I hate overhealing, and that's why I'm using overhealing as an example here.

I've never had a point where I've ran out of MP purely because of DPS, it's always someone dying that causes me to run dry.

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I tetragrammaton minor damage sometimes but that is because tetragrammaton is free and sometimes I don't need it. Healers who use Cure 2 on a target who only took 500 damage at level 60 either don't know what they are doing or aren't paying much attention.

Either way it doesn't change my point that your maths, and the logic behind them, were wrong. DPS does consume more mana over time than healing does, even sustained healing. Healing has more options to mitigate mana cost plus free heals available.

To be fair though SCH do almost never run out of mana. Its more an issue for WHMs who have more expensive dps spells and less effective mana regen options than the other two healers.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I run out of mp DPSing when with DPS that can't dps *



How do you get to 60 without nowing how to heal hp correctly? O_o it is not like dps where .5 sec off =500+ dps loss.

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FATES and leves mostly. My first healer instance was running a12N completely blind and while too lazy to read tooltips. Turned out it didn't really matter because my cohealer told me to go full dps, so I did. I wasn't actually in charge of healing till... I think my 20th run? I don't remember.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Who cares? Like seriously. As long as you aren't in my raid group doing raid content, I don't really care what you do in dungeons as a healer.

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If healers were better in the few pieces of content there are to do outside of raiding, then maybe we'd have a bigger raiding community.

Not sure who wrote this but I will make it short. A lot of healers claims to know fights, but they clearly don't. There is a huge difference on a healer who DPS and then goes back to healing when a buster or raid AoE is about to come, than a healer who spams heals all the time. Why is there a difference? Because good players knows and remembers when the DMG is coming, while the other one doesn't care and just heals way too much. 12n is a good example, seen too many aoe heal spams during adds for no reason and they go out of mp so fast.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Not sure who wrote this but I will make it short. A lot of healers claims to know fights, but they clearly don't. There is a huge difference on a healer who DPS and then goes back to healing when a buster or raid AoE is about to come, than a healer who spams heals all the time. Why is there a difference? Because good players knows and remembers when the DMG is coming, while the other one doesn't care and just heals way too much. 12n is a good example, seen too many aoe heal spams during adds for no reason and they go out of mp so fast.

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To be fair, in pugs you have to allow for people taking damage from things they shouldn't be.

In the end people will still do what they want to do. DPS healers will always DPS and lazy "only-heals" healers will, well only heal. In 4/24 man content or primals both will be accepted, but in savage raids only the people who try to play the job at its maximum will be accepted.

This change only makes easier to heal and dps, but lazy people will always be lazy.