SUMMONER, WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE OR ADD? (EVOLUTION & STAT ALLOCATION)

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

While I understand the sentiment and agree it would be nicer to have more of a focus on ourr pets, how would you propose that be done?

Keep in mind, you must use Arcanist as a base and you only have 5 skills to convert Arcanist into a fully fledged pet-focused Summoner.[/B]

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You can't without heavily modifying ACN. I mentioned some time ago that the only way you might get away with it is if they had left several abilities blank on ACN, to be determined by which carbuncle is out, and carry over into SMN and SCH depending on what they have out.

Even then, current SMN gameplay in XIV is solid, especially seeing they're great DPS and have back-up utility via battle-rez and Physic. I wouldn't throw that to the wind for any reason, really.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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What a giant let down, I guess this is the first FF where the summons are a joke. Glad I still have my FFXI summoner, I guess I can just pretend scholar is the only job arcanist can have. Talk about ruining an established FF rule, where your summoner actually has summons and not this egi crap. What's hilarious is that since arcanist gets a full summon, arcanist is the real summoner. lol

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I would love an ability that let's us take all of our dots off a mob and put them on another mob and also refreshes said dots. A simple quality of life change that would increase summoner's dps by a lot.

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You do, it's called Bane. Lv 30 Arcanist skill. 15% chance to refresh the DoTs.
Summoner has Fester at lv 35 on top. 100 potency per debuff on your target.

Honestly, the only issue I have is that I cannot give pets orders while attacking myself. The Egis are fine, and if you're not actively controlling your Egi manually, you're playing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Cegiana

What a giant let down, I guess this is the first FF where the summons are a joke. Glad I still have my FFXI summoner, I guess I can just pretend scholar is the only job arcanist can have. Talk about ruining an established FF rule, where your summoner actually has summons and not this egi crap. What's hilarious is that since arcanist gets a full summon, arcanist is the real summoner. lol

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that's true Arcanist feels more like a summoner because you have Carbuncle, and not Carbuncle-Egi.

As the days go by, I'm finding myself searching Summoner videos on YouTube from previous FF title's. I get so mesmerized on how awesome they were.

I miss summoner..

i was thinking, and i just put into perspective, Summoner in FFXIV is basically a NECROMANCER from other MMOS. Think about it, they have poisons and little pets which is the norm for the necromancer style.

Egi simply sucks, when you see Summoner everywhere then after a few weeks, there is barely any Summoner you know there is something wrong. What a big let down coming from FFXI to see Summoner in FFXIV how the pets are so ugly, small and so less powerful. Bring back the Summoner from FFXI please.

Imagine Quarrymill with 15 Ifrits and a few Titans standing around. I'd rather not have that.

I can't really see big powerful summons being around without being an annoyance in any other context than, say, SMN-initiated Limit Breaks. There they would work and be totally appropriate for heavy AoE damage.

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Originally Posted by Moontide

Imagine Quarrymill with 15 Ifrits and a few Titans standing around. I'd rather not have that.

I can't really see big powerful summons being around without being an annoyance in any other context than, say, SMN-initiated Limit Breaks. There they would work and be totally appropriate for heavy AoE damage.

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Big is a relative term.

Roegadyn are "big" but nobody complains about them, do they? I honestly find it annoying that people try to counter people's dissatisfaction with their appearance by saying "we can't have giant skyscraper sized summons running around everywhere" when that's usually not what's being asked for. Take this for example, an image that was created during the beta test.

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/7/7/774...ae8d2f24dc.png

Although they already said no, scaling the models to that degree is not going to suddenly eclipse the sun with "big powerful summons."

That aside, if the developers really are looking at our feedback, I hope they do something to give summons more utility.

i just hope we get to summon ff12 Espers. C'mon square enix, at least make those look good.

primal egi is like minions..except its not.

http://www.gamespot.com/final-fantas...439922/?page=1


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...class-reworked

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...grade-from-ACN

Just wanted to share this.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

Pretty sure... he/she meant aesthetics of how the Avatars were in FFXI. I agree the Summoner Job sucked in XI and it was my main and I LOVED IT SO MUCH! (SE WHY YOU NO GIVE US CAIT SITH...nvm wrong forum...) any who, I think relevant wise SMN is much more relevant here at least. As far as it being aesthetically pleasing, well I said my peace back on Beta Forums.

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Just from judging by his posts he considers everything inferior when someone mentions XI - Even though SMN isn't "inferior" 90% of the time like he claims - I could say SAM, DRK, PLD, NIN and WHM is inferior 90% of the time if I played with people who didn't know how to play too.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Just from judging by his posts he considers everything inferior when someone mentions XI - Even though SMN isn't "inferior" 90% of the time like he claims - I could say SAM, DRK, PLD, NIN and WHM is inferior 90% of the time if I played with people who didn't know how to play too.

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You got that backwards. SMN was inferior when played together with good players. As soon as you had melee with capped haste and a ton of ATK, they just did the same damage as your BPs, but every 10 seconds while you wait 45. However, remove all that haste, and remove all that attack, and it was actually balanced.

(I actually made an interesting observation once in the game. Saw a DRK hitting Cerberus for same damage as my avatar melee hits. Made me happy. Then he got Minuets, and started to hit 5 times as hard as my avatar, meaning he suddenly was worth 5 of me.)

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

God please don't do this. They are TOO BIG. They will take up TO MUCH ROOM. The Egi's just need to be more fleshed out and give them something that POPS, rather than size. Give them more detail

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Exactly! Size is not the main problem here. Its that the egis dont look as polished like the faires and carbuncles(hence why there arent many complaints about their designs). I hope they dont increase the size of them too much as they seem to fit well. They are big enogh to be noticed but not too big to overwhelm. Maybe a tiny upscale could happen but nothing too drastic. The ones in FFXI just look too big to me. The egis really just need more detail and a more finished look.

You guys need to remember that the art of summoning is not a job anymore is a skill, so just roll a PLD,BLM or whatever and just wait for the patch when is going to be implemented put it in your bar and summon an actual full size primal

Here is what i Think is ideal for the Egi. Its not big at all, and if implemented i think there should be a toggle to display Egi in sanctuaries ON/OFF.

http://i.imgur.com/aVKQqFY.jpg

(Updated OP)

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Here is what i Think is ideal for the Egi. Its not big at all, and if implemented i think there should be a toggle to display Egi in sanctuaries ON/OFF.

http://i.imgur.com/aVKQqFY.jpg

(Updated OP)

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Thank you. Like I said in my post, they don't have to be these giant skyscrapers people are complaining about to look great.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Here is what i Think is ideal for the Egi. Its not big at all, and if implemented i think there should be a toggle to display Egi in sanctuaries ON/OFF.

http://i.imgur.com/aVKQqFY.jpg

(Updated OP)

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You make me miss my avatars I don't miss XI so don't start with me people.....
I just miss my Avatars is all, look how beautiful they were! And that's XI graphics!!! On PS2 limitations!!!! Better than these Egi's /sigh.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Here is what i Think is ideal for the Egi. Its not big at all, and if implemented i think there should be a toggle to display Egi in sanctuaries ON/OFF.

http://i.imgur.com/aVKQqFY.jpg

(Updated OP)

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sadly you can't have an avatar of primordial, mostly because he will try to control you for stay longer, if you have play in the V1 you will remember how ifrit was furious that we was touched by another god.
don't take me wrong i feel the Egi need to be more detailed too, but not as big as this, the size they have are perfect, what i want is a more detailed version, more attuned with the elementa.

Titan-Egi look perfect, but ifrit and gardua look weird, i have wanted more element appear in them form.
simply i want the egi to look as nice than carbuncle.

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Honestly, the only issue I have is that I cannot give pets orders while attacking myself. The Egis are fine, and if you're not actively controlling your Egi manually, you're playing it wrong.

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Game design, you have to think, unless the SMN can give a response through mental input odds are when they order the pet they have to verbally tell the pet what to do, so if they are casting a spell their ability to command the pet is lost during those windows.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

/snip

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People even today in the real forums still do not get it. No one is asking for FULL primal power!

People (myself included) want more aesthetically pleasing Egi's with their Egi powers still intact, not controlling full Primal's at all! lol....

Because not everyone is pleased with the current Egi's appearance and would rather have something like that as their Egi models.

What about some sort of merging skill at level 55 or higher, so the own character becomes a ghost like spirit beeing while you gain control of a physical appearance of the egi himself with most of the original powers?
If you sacrify your own äther energy for doing such an action it would not harm the planet and its ätherflow...

Currently thats the idea to fix the problem, even when i really hate it because i do not like to mix 2+ old Final Fantasy Jobs into one...
I like the idea with evolving too, but thats a bit odd because its not really fitting into a final fantasy!

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You need to re-read my post. I point out that Carbuncle was only an avatar of light in 1 game, and it wasn't even a main numbered title. FFXII: Revanant Wings is the ONLY FF GAME WHERE CARBUNCLE IS RELATED TO THE LIGHT ELEMENT. She is normally a NON-ELEMENTAL summon. Once again, you are wrong. Also, in THIS GAME, Arcanist has nothing to do with dark magic.

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I don't know if you've noticed, but this game barely cares about elements. Cast Meteor/Fire on Ifrit? Sure why not. Beat the crap out of Titan with Stone 2! Garuda Egi can hurt garuda, makes sense yo.

That's another area where summoner is strange. You don't really have a wind pet, fire pet, and earth pet, you have a ranged pet, tank pet, and melee pet.

I'd give the SMN some not-so-well-known summonings like those from FF12
instead of those sad little pityful Egi excuses.

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

Its that the egis dont look as polished like the faires and carbuncles (hence why there arent many complaints about their designs). The egis really just need more detail and a more finished look.

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If you mean the lighting effects on egi's, it seems to be similar to the effects for minions (they have the same amount of "gloss" as a baby imp or baby behemoth).

You do have to keep in mind that the egi's abstract-ish appearance is a good compromise when you've already established you can't have anything directly represented from the primals due to them tempering/brainwashing you. It's harder to judge an interpretation when it is different from the original in a notable way. You'd probably have more complaints if they had gone for egis looking like LQ primals rather than given the abstract shapes they currently have.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

If you mean the lighting effects on egi's, it seems to be similar to the effects for minions (they have the same amount of "gloss" as a baby imp or baby behemoth).

You do have to keep in mind that the egi's abstract-ish appearance is a good compromise when you've already established you can't have anything directly represented from the primals due to them tempering/brainwashing you. It's harder to judge an interpretation when it is different from the original in a notable way. You'd probably have more complaints if they had gone for egis looking like LQ primals rather than given the abstract shapes they currently have.

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In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/game/#!/jobs/content

Sorry, but... all ways to try include "lore" as a way to go against better looking Egi's becomes invalid with that piece of "lore" right there straight from SE's own FFXIV:ARR site.

I'm personally not asking that we can summon full primals with their full primal powers, but really? We can't have full Primal looks? with a sized downgrade? I honestly don't get it, unless from what I remember reading from the Beta forums was true, and it's just Yoshida's personal preference since he doesn't like how "Final Fantasy XI" had their Avatars set up. Which imo is just a cop-out of not wanting to put forth the effort for aesthetically pleasing Egi's.

Again My personal opinion.

I'm signing this and i agree with the guy that made this thread. SE really need to read this thread.

While I have no strong feelings about this one way or the other, what about at least having the egi turn into not-huge versions of their avatars when you cast spur/rouse/enkindle? It's not what most of you are asking for, but it could be a middle ground since the devs don't want to redesign the egi.

Be call if there was a spell that allowed to summon and call out all of ur Egi at the same time for them to do a combo signature move. Or spell to let us summon 2 summons at the same time but the longer you keep them out will slowly drain all your mana. And make Fenrir just a bit bigger than Carbuncle or the same size i will be unhappy if he looks as crap as Titan Egi and the other egi.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

If you mean the lighting effects on egi's, it seems to be similar to the effects for minions (they have the same amount of "gloss" as a baby imp or baby behemoth).

You do have to keep in mind that the egi's abstract-ish appearance is a good compromise when you've already established you can't have anything directly represented from the primals due to them tempering/brainwashing you. It's harder to judge an interpretation when it is different from the original in a notable way. You'd probably have more complaints if they had gone for egis looking like LQ primals rather than given the abstract shapes they currently have.

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I don't mean the gloss I mean polish as in a finished look. You can have an abstracted version of the primals without them looking unfinished. To me Ifirit doesn't have this problem as much and while Titian also needs detail he still gets the point across for the most part but Garuda is way too simplified and doesn't feel finished. Carbuncle/Faries actually feel like finished creatures, not because of their glow but their overall design.

I do agree with you about them just making a LQ/Smaller version of the primals. I would not want that. I just feel more detail and a better overall design is needed for the egis to feel interesting and pop more. Out of all of them Ifirit has the more interesting look out of the 3 because of his shape and the slight details given to him like his exaggerated claws and horns and the pattern on him body.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Thank you. Like I said in my post, they don't have to be these giant skyscrapers people are complaining about to look great.

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So true...

http://www.lionking.org/~mtanga/macr...mod_fenrir.jpg

I just wanted to add this for LOLZ

I was hoping Summoner Egi would adopt something like this.

Imagine this is Ifrit Egi. First stage at Lv50, the second stage at Lv55, third Lv60, etc etc.
http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/34/03pp.jpg

They say the egi are a "portion" of the power. If you compare sizes... its a very very very very very small portion.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing my SMN as it is. But its nothing like I had hoped for, and is lacking. A masterful summon class that doesn't have a focus on summons.

Its almost as bad as making a bard that uses almost no son..... oh wait. You screwed bard up too...

Don't use iconic names for classes that have years of meaning behind them and then make them something entirely different.

I'm fine with how they appear right now, but I wouldn't be opposed to their appearance changing as the level cap increased. Our Egis, after all, are a reflection of ourselves and the power we have taken in and channel. As we become more powerful, so should the physical 'forms' of the Egis. To be clear, I'm not on board for a carbon copy of avatars from FFXI -- some of which were used as examples for how Egis 'should' look in the OP. Rather, I would be in full support of the Egis changing in some way as we became more powerful. That said... I really don't have an issue with how my Egis look. It's a different game, yadda yadda.

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

To me Ifirit doesn't have this problem as much and while Titian also needs detail he still gets the point across for the most part but Garuda is way too simplified and doesn't feel finished.

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I don't think you can do much with Garuda seeing how over-sex-appealed her design is without simplifying her look. If she had been made more....bestial like in FFXI you might have more to work with, but our Garuda is a large-breasted, thong-wearing, stiletto heel-using psycho chick with claws for hands and wings on her back. The transition wouldn't really work, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I don't think you can do much with Garuda seeing how over-sex-appealed her design is without simplifying her look. If she had been made more....bestial like in FFXI you might have more to work with, but our Garuda is a large-breasted, thong-wearing, stiletto heel-using psycho chick with claws for hands and wings on her back. The transition wouldn't really work, IMO.

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Just have to chime in here to 1000% agree with Duelle. Gardua's design in FFXI is way superior to the one presented in FFXIV. :/

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I don't think you can do much with Garuda seeing how over-sex-appealed her design is without simplifying her look. If she had been made more....bestial like in FFXI you might have more to work with, but our Garuda is a large-breasted, thong-wearing, stiletto heel-using psycho chick with claws for hands and wings on her back. The transition wouldn't really work, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

Just have to chime in here to 1000% agree with Duelle. Gardua's design in FFXI is way superior to the one presented in FFXIV. :/

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I'm sorry I can't let this slide. Looks is subjective, but what the hell are you two smoking? "FFXI Garuda has a more bestial look" "Is more superior" ?
Are we seeing the same thing here? Okay, one has a thong thing, and the other is just completely butt naked, and showing off her breast.

I just can't agree with both of you. At least FFXIV Garuda has more modesty.

http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/801/lauy.jpg http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/713/fyy7.png

I would like the summoner to be effectively a summoner. Why we loose the chance to summon carbuncle? Our summons are just a (small) improvement to original carbuncles, except for ifrit. Actually I'm more or less a "warlock", spamming debuff.

The pet is completely irrelevant, I don't do anything with it, while I've done the summoner expecting to have a SUMMON and not A PET. When you played as Yuna in FFX, summoning means your gameplay revolves ENTIRELY around the summon. I don't expect something similar, but I expect the summon being 70-80% of my gameplay, not 10% (summoning it).

It's one of the ugliest gameplay ever implemented.
And for me, the only "good looking" egi is ifrit, the titan being the worst probably.

Really, improve our gameplay, GIVE GAMBITS FOR SUMMONS, really guys I can't believe CHOCOBOS have deeper gameplay than our summons... are we crazy?

I don't mind the DoTs, well..I wouldn't mind Miasma II not being around self but I really do enjoy them but maybe I'm wrong, I feel we need some sort of potency boost and I think it should be in the area of the pets. Or just in general a boost to the pets. I wouldn't mind a reduced cool down on some of their abilities or even give each pet a new ability where they put on their own DoT. And just to put some sort of uniqueness to it, their own buff with a larger cool down like make Earthen Ward AoE..but that's just me. I hope to see some changes to this job I adore so much.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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Who are the 79 people who liked this? This is pretty much SE saying "yeah the current egi's look bad and there isn't anything we are going to do about it. Maybe next time". I love Summoner but why did they make the egi's so ugly. This is just another let down.

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Originally Posted by TibTheSummoner

Who are the 79 people who liked this? This is pretty much SE saying "yeah the current egi's look bad and there isn't anything we are going to do about it. Maybe next time". I love Summoner but why did they make the egi's so ugly. This is just another let down.

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They aren't saying "Egis look bad." They are saying they are designed to be a 'manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals'. Thus, smaller and less detailed. They do not have the same level of detail as the primals because they are not as 'developed'. For the beastmen to summon the primals, they need to put a LOT of effort in. We are just ONE person summoning a small fraction of that primal.

Remember that the primals themselves are NOT stand-alone beings. They are given the power BY those who revere them. This is why 'discouraging' beastmen will in turn weaken the primals, but angering the beastmen will only mean that the primals will grow even MORE powerful. Primals who have been given too much power will develop a mind of their own and overthrow even those who revere them... which is usually what ends up happening and why people become 'tainted'. Each primal has a distinct personality... Ramuh, for example, is territorial. IF we, as summoners, call upon TOO MUCH POWER, we will be manifesting something into this world that we can no longer control or command and then we will run into the same issues the beastmen have with the primals. We need to be careful if we are going to be summoning.

We are NOT summoning avatars of the primals. We are drawing from the same energy that the primals come from -- aethereal energy (we are arcanists at our base, remember). Our relic weapon has a crystal designed to better channel that energy. This is why the Egis appear as they do and do not have a personality... BECAUSE we are just one summoner. I don't understand how people don't get this. It's in the storyline. :(

As I said earlier, however -- As summoners grow more powerful, so should the appearance of our Egis. It would be weird for a level 30 Summoner's Egi to have the same appearance as a level 60 Summoner's Egi. I hope the appearance will be altered for higher level summoners as the level cap is raised. For now, I'm fine with the appearance...