Say yes to Cross-world group finder

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Originally Posted by Ostia

Whats next ? No pvp in any form, because that will lead to a bad community ? Woot there goes another chunk of the player base they could have tapped 8-)

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Only way that would be relevant and not a terrible example at all is if said PVP was open and you couldn't help yourself but be effected by Johny Appleseed wanting to romp allover your face.

We can "Opt out" of Cross server parties, but it still effects our comunity in ways we can not control, like it or not Ninja looting would be a problem wether there were name changes or not. Hell it's not even the biggest problem though, it's segregating the community of a server because it might be easier or faster to get a cross server group going.

Whats the point of servers at that point? Why not just merge us all into one server! then you can have all the cross server play you ever wanted.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Because if they have the system we have to use it matter what because it's not like we can /sh most players wont even want to do it that way they just sit in the city and wait for a dungeon. I play wow and i /tell players who just did a dungeon with me and they said no and this happen many many times not only one time. So yes trust me players would like to just do random dungeon then players in there own world.

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So from what you are saying, most players would rather use the LFG tool, than grouping, then if majority wants that, who are you to tell them they cant ? since when is your money more important than their money ? since when should anybody play the game they pay for(Eventually) pay and play as you see fit ? The LFG is an option, it does not disables your character from forming groups from your own server or ls, if people want to group from their own server, they can, if they dont, they can use it, is a WIN/WIN for both sides.

Plus why do you or anybody else cares, if jimmy the noob is sitting in town waiting for a group ? does it affect you ? does he sitting in town, cast's a debuff on your character where he gets no XP/SP ?

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Kaeden

You have over 2,000 posts... it's impossible not to be in the same thread as you. In addition, I don't twist anything... you do. And that's what I was pointing out. As I stated before... if you don't agree with someone, all you do is take one of their statements out of context, find some convoluted way of bringing up a horrible experience in FFXI or WoW, and then try and make a connection between the two that doesn't exist. And when people try to explain to you how you're going off-topic or just taking things out of context, then you "play the victim" and accuse them of being rude, being ignorant, or you just insult them.

Sorry sweetheart... this is your pattern. I'd really just like to expose you for the troll you are (since I don't think that anyone could be doing all that by mistake). Though I think that's starting to become apparent to most.

As for the topic: As I've stated before, I agree with NO cross-server instances. Accountability is completely lost and the system is abused horrifically. All you have to do is look at DCUO and their auto-grouping feature for instances (it would be even worse if it was cross-server).

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Kilta_firelotus

kaeden you such a (fill in the blank). Holding grugdes is pretty sad thing to do dude, as well as basing your fight on something so sad as post count. My post count is high cuz I like socialising on here. I do not type very well, bor do I say what I want to say very well. I use my personal experiences or as ppl put it "sob stories" as the best way I can get my point across. If I don't do that I get lost into what I try to say, and it wouldn't come out well.

Which is also what others are unintentionaly doing. Including you. You guys do not want this system based on past experiences on previous mmo. Just not talking in detail.

And also no one here is stating an opinion, they are stating facts which are infact invalid. Sorry but again, there is no valid reason not to have cross sever que systems. WoW had a bad community before dingeon finder. DCUO was bad before their cross server que. And honestly as someone pointed out, what community are you trying to protect?

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You both have your own opinions, and that is great. That's the point of discussions.

However, there is no need to make things a personal matter. Such things should be left aside for the sake of topic progression. If you both want to take it to a personal matter then by all means do so, but not on the public forums.

Something for the both of you to know: People have left the forums recently, highlighting such child-like fighting. Personally, I think that is an indication that the conduct between people here is a serious issue. Personally, I would feel ashamed if my actions caused somebody to quit the forums of this game.

back on topic:

I still personally dislike the cross-server party ideas. If anything, I would very much like it if SE at least waited until the PS3 release of this game came out. That would give SE a better indication of server population; thus, giving them a better indication on what action needs to be taken to make party forming easier for all players

Kimiko x

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Originally Posted by Ostia

So from what you are saying, most players would rather use the LFG tool, than grouping, then if majority wants that, who are you to tell them they cant ? since when is your money more important than their money ? since when should anybody play the game they pay for(Eventually) pay and play as you see fit ? The LFG is an option, it does not disables your character from forming groups from your own server or ls, if people want to group from their own server, they can, if they dont, they can use it, is a WIN/WIN for both sides.

Plus why do you or anybody else cares, if jimmy the noob is sitting in town waiting for a group ? does it affect you ? does he sitting in town, cast's a debuff on your character where he gets no XP/SP ?

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Ya it does affect me if there server dungeon, meaning everyone would better of doing them then partying with players there own world. This happen in WOW and Rift i play them and i know what am talking about this is the dumbest idea and i'll agree that i don't want it in FFXIV.Yes the noob jimmy would affect my gameplay becuase him and everyone like him who does not want to /tell players to party up would be doing random dungeon. Then i have to do them myself becuase no one would even /tell me for my /sh and it would be a waste of my time to do so.

so yes it does affect my good sir you all have your own opinions why we should have it but the cons to having this system would just just affect overall Gameplay. everyone just be sitting in town waiting for dungeon and you still have to wait for hours to get one it's not like you going to enter one in 1-10min so i don't know why casual even want it. Sometime going to take you over 1hour just to get in a dungeon if your not a tank. Top of that they be loads of areas in eorzea pointless and no meaning to them beside killing for mats or for DOL to get item from.

Sadly i can care less if they add it but just saying better if we don't have it now so players can build a comunity with each other then maybe 1-2years form ps3 release they add it.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

People are right that cross server LDFs destroy a community feel, because if you have no ties with the community you are in, you have no reason to care. I really do think SE needs to consider this and address it before doing anything. I offered one small solution. But if you want to actually promote a community, you need to have community based activities that acually encourage people to meet each other and contribute. Which I think SE has been doing pretty well without pushing too hard.

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It doesn't really destroy the community unless it is the only way to get anything done.

In the case of WoW, you still had notable rivalries and such when it came to open world PvP, which was largely comprised of Wintergrasp during WotLK. The same cliques still existed in the raiding scene with private chat channels created to allow the "core" players to get raids and groups together. You simply did not have a ludicrous and overt dependence on potentially anyone on the server. Not to mention there were still people shouting in the hub cities to get groups together.

So...what's the big deal?

There really isn't a big deal as I said before, they are just afraid the game will be a WoW clone and in no way possible will that be the case because generally people that still play FFXIV are hardcore fans to some extent or another. I understand you have an opinion and I understand you may not like it, but the sole reason of it destroys communities yet on any game I have played that has this feature the community is perfectly fine.

Some people are worried about "Ninja Looting" in the dungeons and I think they could come up with a fair system to counter this to some extent. I don't see a point of not adding the system just to appease part of the game population when another part really do want it. I prefer to have multiple options when it comes to stuff than have one set way of doing things. Options create the most immersion for me and if one night I want to use that feature then I have the option to do so and if I want to run with my LS I can do that too. How does it destroy community?, it doesn't force you to use it. Using the same logic as McDonalds doesn't make you fat, you are the one buying the food and eating it, not McDonalds.

There is a ton of things I want from WoW in this game. Cross server dungeon grouping or PvP just isn't one of them. If this had been a vanilla WoW clone with an FFXI skin I probably would play it until the end of time.

Haha amen. But to not want a feature that will benefit a portion of the current FFXIV players and supporters is dumb. To dislike and hate on the casual players and yet a lot of them want FFXIV to do well and even though I don't agree with all of their ideas of how to make the game better I think this one would appease a fair amount of people especially if they implement it in a better way than WoW has. As I said before let them say how they would implement it before you totally shoot the idea down.

I don't hate on casual players, I consider myself one.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Some people are worried about "Ninja Looting" in the dungeons and I think they could come up with a fair system to counter this to some extent. I don't see a point of not adding the system just to appease part of the game population when another part really do want it. I prefer to have multiple options when it comes to stuff than have one set way of doing things. Options create the most immersion for me and if one night I want to use that feature then I have the option to do so and if I want to run with my LS I can do that too. How does it destroy community?, it doesn't force you to use it. Using the same logic as McDonalds doesn't make you fat, you are the one buying the food and eating it, not McDonalds.

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I agree with you. At the same time, ninja looting is just kinda there, and there's always been safeguards and reasonable measures to deal with it. I used to state that I'd kick anyone ninja-ing a drop (I tanked when pugging, so I usually ended up with leader because of it). I'd also hold off on rolling until the end, and caught and kicked ninjas thanks to that.

It's not a reasonable concern because it happens. All you can do is do your best to protect yourself against it, but such is the risk when it comes to dealing with other people. Not to mention it'd do nothing to stop those who ninja things while in a LS or guild.

I say yes.

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Originally Posted by Ostia

The community is the only one that can take care of the community, using wow as an example, as some people have done, is stupid, because the game mechanics and community are totally different, there is no change name, in this game, if i'm a ninja, i cant just change my name or make another toon, w/o loosing all the progress i have done here :/

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Which is exactly one of the problems with cross-server parties. People don't need to worry about accountability because they will most likely never see them again. But thanks for making one of the points for us.

And PvP would only "ruin the community" if it was open world PvP. Having a duel system or Ballista-like PvP would not adversely effect the community since it would be pure, real choice. Cross-server parties are not pure, real choice. The fact they would even exist means it have an effect (a bad one) on the community.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Which is exactly one of the problems with cross-server parties. People don't need to worry about accountability because they will most likely never see them again. But thanks for making one of the points for us.

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I agree even if you post it on website saying player warning they wont care he did it because it was a random dungeon players on his world would easy go it's a random dungeon i would have done the same thing. no one want to waste time doing a dungeon and seeing a item they need so they just going to ninja loot thing they want for later.

now if you do this with players on your own world they would post it on the forums within there world and players wont invite them and they would get bad rep. Most wow players don't even care if you ninja loot in dungeons they just kick you and you can join other one in 30mins :)

ya you guys still are not really giving valid reasons, and are saiying myths NOT facts. fact WoW had a bad community well before dungeon finder and cross server que systems, looking for anyone willing to help was nearly impossible. I played WoW pre dungeon fimder and played on about 5 servers. Getting help with dungeons for quests was painstaking. Between shouting, asking in guilds I was on, no one cared to help. Similar is happening on ffxi. And from what I'm hearing ppl in ffxiv are stuck in their LS's. Aion is the same also. It is not that ppl are lazy to look for help, it is that there is no one willing to help. And as for accountability, that is player by player. It can happen no matter what. I met plenty of crude players in every mmo. You guys are not winning any "nice people" awards either truth be told. Sorry but irritated at ppl bringoing up myths as facts.

Half if not everything you guys are saying can happen with or with out cross server grouping. And what other people do is none of your concern.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ya you guys still are not really giving valid reasons, and are saiying myths NOT facts. fact WoW had a bad community well before dungeon finder and cross server que systems, looking for anyone willing to help was nearly impossible. I played WoW pre dungeon fimder and played on about 5 servers. Getting help with dungeons for quests was painstaking. Between shouting, asking in guilds I was on, no one cared to help. Similar is happening on ffxi. And from what I'm hearing ppl in ffxiv are stuck in their LS's. Aion is the same also. It is not that ppl are lazy to look for help, it is that there is no one willing to help. And as for accountability, that is player by player. It can happen no matter what. I met plenty of crude players in every mmo. You guys are not winning any "nice people" awards either truth be told. Sorry but irritated at ppl bringoing up myths as facts.

Half if not everything you guys are saying can happen with or with out cross server grouping. And what other people do is none of your concern.

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Fact: cross server que has an effect on a community.
Myth: all MMO's suffer from the same bad communities.

Not all MMO communities suffer from the same problems, and not all communities are as rude,crude or inconsiderate compared to others.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ya you guys still are not really giving valid reasons, and are saiying myths NOT facts. fact WoW had a bad community well before dungeon finder and cross server que systems, looking for anyone willing to help was nearly impossible. I played WoW pre dungeon fimder and played on about 5 servers. Getting help with dungeons for quests was painstaking. Between shouting, asking in guilds I was on, no one cared to help. Similar is happening on ffxi. And from what I'm hearing ppl in ffxiv are stuck in their LS's. Aion is the same also. It is not that ppl are lazy to look for help, it is that there is no one willing to help. And as for accountability, that is player by player. It can happen no matter what. I met plenty of crude players in every mmo. You guys are not winning any "nice people" awards either truth be told. Sorry but irritated at ppl bringoing up myths as facts.

Half if not everything you guys are saying can happen with or with out cross server grouping. And what other people do is none of your concern.

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You type more words in a day then i do in a month. How does your English have so much downs?

Not being a jerk, i am honestly curious. So curious, in fact, that i wrote you this poem.

Your words are crap
They make me cry.

Even with amazing girth
fantastic topics you turn to dirt.

Opinions bold and without merit
you have less brains then my brother's ferret.

His name is trouble, he sniffs his crotch
I hope one day you find the decency
to cease your thoughts and let them rot.

It took me seconds to write this. It is childish, makes me feel bad, and worthless.
But hey, at least it's legible.

commat I got ADD...... Not that easy for me to type "well enough".



And bled you would be surpised... I've been on several ffxi server WoW servers and every Aion server. (i like jumping around) And honestly I saw very few to no differences. People are people they will act how every they want. To say cross server grouping causes these issues is asinine.

I proposed this in mirror thread.

the reason for cross server grouping is most cases is the community on the same server isn't always as helpful as you guys assume. I had a rough time in WoW and ffxi getting stuff done due to lack of help. People do not join pugs under the same excuse as "ninja looting" So ppl stick with their LS. I played WoW pre dungeon finder and got left in a dungeon. I didn't do anything wrong, ppl just got their gear and left. And it took me an hour to find those ppl.

If you guys do not want cross server grouping do your part. Be more able, willing, forethcoming with grouping with ppl outside your LS's for levequests and such.

Oh and commat... that poem is pretty bad. I write better poetry then I do with typing out stuff. I find it funny that ppl assume they write a poem just by rhyming words....
How is this for a poem

As day turns to twilight
The raven flies.
Flying along the trail lit by the moon.
A cry echos in the night
the raven flies the moon lit path
It comes to a house, old and grayed
Another cry is echo'ed into the night
The raven lands
the moon shining on a window

The raven peeks
He calls, the crys halt
Away into the night
Goes the raven and this soul

/Signed for yes. This will not only keep playing in groups a fresh experience, but also maintain healthy dungeon populations/circulations.

Once again you've missed the point. You assume i think that poems have to rhyme, i don't. Or, that i care about the strength of mine, which i pointed out in my first post i don't.

The point was to tease you.

A proper comeback from you would have been a poem about how i am a fat looser that sits around all day doing nothing(which i am and do) or something of that sort. You weren't supposed to take out your diary and post a real poem.

Anyways, sorry for making fun of you.
nice poem, I like stories about birds.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

commat I got ADD...... Not that easy for me to type "well enough".



And bled you would be surpised... I've been on several ffxi server WoW servers and every Aion server. (i like jumping around) And honestly I saw very few to no differences. People are people they will act how every they want. To say cross server grouping causes these issues is asinine.

I proposed this in mirror thread.

the reason for cross server grouping is most cases is the community on the same server isn't always as helpful as you guys assume. I had a rough time in WoW and ffxi getting stuff done due to lack of help. People do not join pugs under the same excuse as "ninja looting" So ppl stick with their LS. I played WoW pre dungeon finder and got left in a dungeon. I didn't do anything wrong, ppl just got their gear and left. And it took me an hour to find those ppl.

If you guys do not want cross server grouping do your part. Be more able, willing, forethcoming with grouping with ppl outside your LS's for levequests and such.

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You are not the only person to play multiple MMO's i myself have played: Diablo 2, FFXI, WoW, Maple Story, Aion, Dragonball Online, and I watched a buddy play blade chronicle quit a bit.

You state that bad communities and people are in every game and yes that is true, but just like in normal biological genomes, people don't all ways have the predisposition to be crude,rude, or unhelpful, that is brought about by external forces (our environment). In this case i stated that environmental factors can have a negative impact on gaming communities (environmental factor = cross server que). In a majority of Japanese MMORPG's that i have played the communities are not as bad as the western communities; to blindly state that something exists thus it exists everywhere is ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Bled

You are not the only person to play multiple MMO's i myself have played: Diablo 2, FFXI, WoW, Maple Story, Aion, Dragonball Online, and I watched a buddy play blade chronicle quit a bit.

You state that bad communities and people are in every game and yes that is true, but just like in normal biological genomes, people don't all ways have the predisposition to be crude,rude, or unhelpful, that is brought about by external forces (our environment). In this case i stated that environmental factors can have a negative impact on gaming communities (environmental factor = cross server que). In a majority of Japanese MMORPG's that i have played the communities are not as bad as the western communities; to blindly state that something exists thus it exists everywhere is ignorant.

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coss server grouping come up from a bad community to start with. It wouldn't happen if looking for people wasn't such a pain. Don't want grouping? Help more to make it not needed.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

coss server grouping come up from a bad community to start with. It wouldn't happen if looking for people wasn't such a pain. Don't want grouping? Help more to make it not needed.

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What you are stating as your staple end of thread sentence: "Don't want cross server grouping? Help more to make it not needed," Is a collective action problem. You can tell me to help out all day long and i can go and help everyone i come across with what ever they may need, yet that does not influence anyone else to do said kind acts, thus why do it at all (i all ready help plenty of people out so stop point the finger at me).

People here are having a hard time understanding this concept, unless there is coercion or some other social device to make people act in their own common interest, rational, self-interested people will not work to achieve their common or group interests.

ps diablo not really a mmo. It more of a dungeon runner with online capabilities. Kinda like warcraft being an rts with online capabilities.
Anyway cross server grouping is only to ease the wait time for looking for groups to do stuff. No one wants to look/wait for hours for people. Nor should ppl be forced to join linkshell or guilds to get help. As I stated WoW had issues way before stuff was added. Barely anyway helped or joined in on stuff unless it was a guild person and only if they felt bored enough (not often) Personally. Its nobodies buiness to prevent such a feature to be added for such asinine reasoning. If you don't want it, Do your part and be more willing to group with others w/o stipulations. From what i hear, there is so many rules you guys require for leveling.. i personally find it stupid.

How about ease up on them and open parting more. Remember its a game, not a work place.

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Originally Posted by Bled

What you are stating as your staple end of thread sentence: "Don't want cross server grouping? Help more to make it not needed," Is a collective action problem you can tell me to help out all day long and i can go and help everyone i come across, yet that does not influence anyone else to do said kind acts.

People here are having a hard time understanding this concept, unless there is coercion or some other social device to make people act in their common interest, rational, self-interested people will not work to achieve their common or group interests.

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then you can't complain, nor should others. No one has time or are willing to look/wait for hours to get groups. Which is why que systems are put in. To in a way ease that wait. In WoW i que up for a battleground faster then it takes me to get 1 person to group with me for a dungeon run I need for a quest. That is how bad it got before the dungeon finder. You guys really need to think why these systems are put in more.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ps diablo not really a mmo. It more of a dungeon runner with online capabilities. Kinda like warcraft being an rts with online capabilities.
Anyway cross server grouping is only to ease the wait time for looking for groups to do stuff. No one wants to look/wait for hours for people. Nor should ppl be forced to join linkshell or guilds to get help. As I stated WoW had issues way before stuff was added. Barely anyway helped or joined in on stuff unless it was a guild person and only if they felt bored enough (not often) Personally. Its nobodies buiness to prevent such a feature to be added for such asinine reasoning. If you don't want it, Do your part and be more willing to group with others w/o stipulations. From what i hear, there is so many rules you guys require for leveling.. i personally find it stupid.

How about ease up on them and open parting more. Remember its a game, not a work place.

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MMORPG is the acronym for Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game... last i checked Diablo 2 was massive, a multiplayer game, online, and had role playing elements...

Just because a game ran on a lobby basis does not detract from what it was originally labeled as, Diablo 2 and Phantasy Star Online are just a few of the beginning MMORPG's.

We all know why WoW dev put cross server grouping in their game the argument is whether or not it belongs HERE!

Jeebus Kilta, the Edit button is there for a REASON. Use it instead of double and triple replying every bloody post, please. I have you on ignore and you're still managing to be agitating somehow...