Best DPS class in the game?

I've been having a blast playing the Archer, but I'm thinking about trying out the black mage eventually. It seems they are making a case as being the best at DPS.

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Originally Posted by Vizu

This thread is asking which of the dps classes comes out on top assuming a stand still fight under optimal conditions and equal gearing / player skill.

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It'll be monk, their damage will go down the toilet when boss mechanics start showing up though. They'll prob be either top or bottom of the dps pile, never in the middle. Bard prob wont be great but at least it'll be consistent

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

There is no top-dps... this is not WoW were everyone compares dps. Aslong as you do your teamwork right, dps does not matter. Every job is outfitted with skills to stun mobs that overpower your party. If you're a dps keep in mind to protect your healer from adds and keep damaging bosses.

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Good DPS is the difference between 30min dungeon runs vs 15min dungeon runs. It's the difference between being able ignore adds and burn down a boss vs kiting/killing adds. If you like casual teams that take twice as long to get something done, that's fine. Some of us like efficiency.

If you want burst dmg i would go with a Dragoon ;)

BARD's rule...you will see.

Would need good parses to tell really, and even then it can be situation. I can tell you that Monk is sure a lot more complicated then Dragoon is though to play. XD

Now does Bard still count as DPS or is not just support class?

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Originally Posted by Monkeytarget

Now does Bard still count as DPS or is not just support class?

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Bard is a DPS class. Their songs are nice but they're still DPS.

Monks or Dragoons NEED to be at the top of the food chain when it comes to dishing out the most damage (at least against single targets/bosses) under optimal conditions because they are melee. It just doesn't make any sense for someone standing 20 feet and out of harm's way to be doing more damage than those who need to stick to targets like glue in order to be useful.

Honestly on bosses if the monk or dragoon uses their level 3 limit break they are going to be top DPS, bards dont have access to any dps limit breaks but have better overall DPS than the other classes

Granted I'm only level 34, but I seem to outdamage everyone as archer, I have to wait a little while before attacking otherwise the tank has a hard time taking agro back, that and if the tank dies I tend to kite the boss on my own, aslong as it's not ranged.

A dragoon will never run out of TP unless they are spamming AoE.

from my experience much like the majority of replies Id say DRG and BLM are best

I can't speak for end-game class balance as of yet. Errors, and work have kept me from level racing like I usually do. However, through parsing mid-level dungeons between guildies who I've known to be good mmo players for a long time, I've observed that most of the dps classes are right in line with each other. For the most part my DRG will win on a short fight because of burst CD's. However, on a long fight my friends and I would often be 2-3 hundred damage apart on a boss, for overall damage.

The only class so far I have noticed lacking a bit is summoner (of course including the pet dps)

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Originally Posted by Deelo

Good DPS is the difference between 30min dungeon runs vs 15min dungeon runs. It's the difference between being able ignore adds and burn down a boss vs kiting/killing adds. If you like casual teams that take twice as long to get something done, that's fine. Some of us like efficiency.

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Are you talking about the very best DPS who will allow the 15min dungeon run versus the 2nd best that is only allowing to do it 30min ?
Meaning that a badly equipped best dps is better than a perfectly equiped 2nd or 3rd best ?

I'm a tank. I find that a lot of DPS use nothing but AOE which makes my job harder than it needs to be. My question is: Is it unreasonable to ask the DPS in my group to lay off the AOE a bit and use more single target skills?
Please don't flame. I just want nice, smooth runs. I'm just not sure if any of the caster DPS needs to rely on AOE more than single target, though I would think that they do not.
Thanks in advance!

Edit: Before anyone asks, I do mark my targets, I wait for TP and MP to restore, and I ask for advice if I'm not sure how something should be tanked. In other words, I do my best to get along with the team and keep it fun and organized for all ;)

No it's not wierd to ask ppl to ease up. I even held back on Ifrit since I kept getting the aggro.
But pplndont seem to get everyone just started and even tanks are just learning the ropes.
I do want to ask you to stay on topic and forum, since this is a dps topic on a dps forum and your post is very misplaced.

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Originally Posted by Ambacht

No it's not wierd to ask ppl to ease up. I even held back on Ifrit since I kept getting the aggro.
But pplndont seem to get everyone just started and even tanks are just learning the ropes.
I do want to ask you to stay on topic and forum, since this is a dps topic on a dps forum and your post is very misplaced.

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Misplaced? I figured asking the people who play the role was the best place to ask and this seems to be a thread that gets looked at by all DPS classes... But thanks for the response.

Ah thought it was something like that, then yeah fair enough.
GL tanking mate :)

I find that DPS is more often the problem than tanks,
not following marked targets (or even bothing to mark targets if the tank doesnt know how)
not watching the agro indicator, its very obvious, and it shows you the mob your looking at, if your climbing up slow down your dps

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Originally Posted by Velyse

Watch for Arcanist / Summoner once they start getting to 50. The DoT damage adds up fast, and that's not even counting the actual summons.

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How would you know? You're level 26 ACN

I am enjoying playing a Thaumaturge, its good to have a good tank to have with you and you do double damage. I also played as a Arcanist, and had fun having a pet, but its takes some getting used to with the control aspect. But I am still trying to figure out what job I am going to end up being.

For parsing a few runs at 50 with class quest gear, BRD is uncontested in DPS between DRG and BLM.
BLM was ahead of DRG but this might be coming from having a better weapon and also getting high benefits from BRD Requiem. I would rate them as equal.

BRD is ahead for many reason :
- only class that can deal damage while moving. BLM must cast and DRG need to avoid aoe by running away from melee range.
- Songs are supposed to lower DPS by 20%. If a BRD does not use them, his dps is higher. If he must use them, he will fall behind other dps

I dunno much about other class but BRD have a very high need of critical to unlock their full potential. I believe their DPS will grow a lot more than other class due to proc being dependants on critical hits.

I think Summoner could be quite a good DPS if they would rework Ruin. The spell is just horrible. Minimal damage, maximal casting time - not good.

What about Fester? This spell is nice to read. Potency of 300 that makes this spell one of the strongest ( the strongest? ) in the game - anybody got experience with that?

From my not lvl 50 testing with a few FC members I have found BRD to be the best DPS at our lvls (37) will do more testing this weekend after we cap and get some gear but it seems with the right gear BRD can do significant dmg with 10%elemental song and lost of +crit

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Originally Posted by Thotor

BRD is ahead for many reason :
- only class that can deal damage while moving. BLM must cast and DRG need to avoid aoe by running away from melee range.
- Songs are supposed to lower DPS by 20%. If a BRD does not use them, his dps is higher. If he must use them, he will fall behind other dps

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Yes, basically in a practical fight (Which means adds, disapearing boss, movement needed etc) it is :

BRD > BLM > DRG > SMN > MNK

Which is sad because the utility they all bring is like :

BRD (Songs) > BLM (Resist CD + Transcendance) > SMN (REZ + Virus) > MNK (Mantra + 10% INT debuff) > DRG (5% Mantra)

So basically the best dps also brings the best utility. The perfect raid is like :

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1 PLD
1 WAR
1 WHM
1 SCH
1 SMN
1 BRD
1 BLM
1 MNK

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No point in having a Dragoon. :(

As it currently stands, I don't see how BLM will not be topping the DPS chart.

There is a huge and inherent benefit from being ranged right now and it's crippling DRGs and MNKs very significantly.

As a MNK, if Shoulder Tackle (MNK'S Charge skill) is not up and I'm not within 10 yards to activate it, I have no abilities or spells to close onto the target but only Fists of Wind which add a very minor and significantly difficult to notice run-speed "boost." By the time I'm able to my first ability on the target, a BLM might be on their third cast of Fire II/Fire III spells especially if they proc the buff that enables them to reduce their casting time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. A BRD, optimally, might be on their fourth GCD attack if you include their skill that's off the GCD in their rotation.

A L40 BLM can crit Fire III for over 300 damage by simply standing there and pressing one button. I have to constantly be moving from back to flank and if I miss one (just one) attack in my rotation, I can't compete against a BLM that's dishing out his/her optimal rotation. BLM is an unbelievably simply designed but extremely efficient class and they're the best at single-target DPS and AoE DPS. I'm not sure how it's supposed to be balanced out but BLMs, BRDs, and SMNs are currently kings in dungeons and dominate/hold a monopoly on Fates EXP gain as AoE attacks reign supreme.

This needs to be seriously looked at and remedied accordingly as it's simply not fair for melee classes to have this inherent handicap as compared to ranged classes who don't seem to have any drawbacks besides being a bit squisher than melee classes in terms of dishing out DPS.

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Originally Posted by roflcaust

As it currently stands, I don't see how BLM will not be topping the DPS chart.

There is a huge and inherent benefit from being ranged right now and it's crippling DRGs and MNKs very significantly.

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This needs to be seriously looked at and remedied accordingly as it's simply not fair for melee classes to have this inherent handicap as compared to ranged classes who don't seem to have any drawbacks besides being a bit squisher than melee classes in terms of dishing out DPS.

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Agreed. Melee should have higher Base Damage to off set the positional requirements.

Utility should also be factored in. Either every DPS class has to bring equal Utility (boring IMO) or there needs to be an inverse ratio between DPS and Utility.
A lot of this comes from the odd decision to change Bard to a DPS class. I'm still unsure why Bard wasn't kept as Utility and Ranger wasn't added as the DPS Job for Archer.

Archers are overpowered as hell and way to easy and boring to play as, i guess if you enjoy puting half your rotation on one macro and spamming that and calling it fun more power to you, monk is alot harder but the PUG's rotation is much more satisfying if you know how to do it

Another problem i have is with how caster weapons and melee weapons are balanced, casters get full ability damage whill physical weapons are half ability damage half auto attack, auto attacks are useless in a game thats all about spaming abilities non stop, plus all the casters get 50% more ability damage on top of this, it makes playing as a melee DPS unrewarding when you hit for so low on your attacks

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Originally Posted by TheWitcher

Archers are overpowered as hell and way to easy and boring to play as, i guess if you enjoy puting half your rotation on one macro and spamming that and calling it fun more power to you, monk is alot harder but the PUG's rotation is much more satisfying if you know how to do it

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Yup agree 100% with the BRD comment, when I first started I want to be a BRD but after the first instance I changed my mind quickly. Its just sooooo boring to play compared to other classes but it makes sense why they are number 1 in terms of damage.

How are people judging damage btw? There are no mods to truly say and I highly doubt people are switching out DPS to run instances then checking how fast it takes.

many MMOs have had out of game damage meters like ACT (covered both EQs, aion and rift).

i doubt they are switching out DPSers, so its all kinda incidental. i imagine we will start to have more dummy test after a few weeks. maybe everyone in AF gear level 50 doing 5 min parses? i'd love to try to iron out damage formulas for spreadsheets like i did in tera :) (http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...ntitleds-3.jpg amazing how loved and hated stuff like that gets you)

Bards apparently get highest damage to counterbalance songs taking out 20%? Of course, Bards refuse to use the good songs with the 20% penalty.

My WHM girlfriend wishes more bards used Mana Regen song.

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Originally Posted by Spythe

Yup agree 100% with the BRD comment, when I first started I want to be a BRD but after the first instance I changed my mind quickly. Its just sooooo boring to play compared to other classes but it makes sense why they are number 1 in terms of damage.

How are people judging damage btw? There are no mods to truly say and I highly doubt people are switching out DPS to run instances then checking how fast it takes.

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I dont see the rational for Bards having the amount of damage they have, the have by far the strongest support of any DPS class and have no right having top 1 DPS compared to Classes like Dragoon that have zero utility and are melee which means they take more damage, they really have no buisness having the amazing kit that they do and imo a Bard should be the lowest DPS of all the Dps classes because the have the strongest support

Anyone whos played the classes in beta and on live can tell who does the most DPS, just by playing them you can tell which one is better, and combined with Simplistic rotations BLM and Bard are easily the top DPS characters right now

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Originally Posted by Leonas

Bards apparently get highest damage to counterbalance songs taking out 20%? Of course, Bards refuse to use the good songs with the 20% penalty.

My WHM girlfriend wishes more bards used Mana Regen song.

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y guild has dowed HM ifrit and Garuda and i topped DPS as bard while using songs according to zams parser

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Originally Posted by TheWitcher

Anyone whos played the classes in beta and on live can tell who does the most DPS, just by playing them you can tell which one is better, and combined with Simplistic rotations BLM and Bard are easily the top DPS characters right now

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Sorry but managing a white mages mana while still trying to max DPS is not "easy" part of the challenge on bard is to know when to use song and when not to, not only do you need to make sure the healers have mana you cannot gimp yourself while DPSing burns for DPS checks.

Not to mention what you epicly failed at realizing is there is not "support" classes there are classes with support. Scholars have the ability to increase skill an casting speed by 30% that is HUGE.

Also when you get to the hard modes there is every bit as much stuff for ranged dodge as well as melee. Dragoons and Monks simply get to tunnel DPS and not step in fire. Bards have to not step in file while being in relation to every mana user in raid and know when to use what song to get the best bang for the buck while not nerfing their own damage, and if you think a level 20 archer is the same as a level 50 bard in terms of play then you really are clueless.

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Originally Posted by TheWitcher

I dont see the rational for Bards having the amount of damage they have, the have by far the strongest support of any DPS class and have no right having top 1 DPS compared to Classes like Dragoon that have zero utility and are melee which means they take more damage, they really have no buisness having the amazing kit that they do and imo a Bard should be the lowest DPS of all the Dps classes because the have the strongest support

Anyone whos played the classes in beta and on live can tell who does the most DPS, just by playing them you can tell which one is better, and combined with Simplistic rotations BLM and Bard are easily the top DPS characters right now

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Sword dance LB.

Though the content does favor range heavily, that's only if they know the trick. If they don't brds are like the first to die...hard. They can't heal, they have no def, no HP, and they are hard to save unlike melees which are close to the tank.

and again Sword dance.

Every damage class has a weakness right now. Mnks fall off a cliff if they can't position, Drg's are the new drk, blms no longer have single damage prowess, brds can't take a hit, smn's can't burst, etc, etc, etc.

Their strengths are pretty much the same, Mnks are versatile and charge LB really fast, Drgs hit hard no matter what, blms aoe and sleep are godly in many fights, brds are consistant, and smns are super safe.

For most of the content Sword Dance LB owns so, you should almost always have a mnk/drg in your pt to make life easier. Can't say that for a brd.

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Originally Posted by Spythe

How are people judging damage btw? There are no mods to truly say and I highly doubt people are switching out DPS to run instances then checking how fast it takes.

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With log parser : http://ffxivlogrep.com/summary/

Songs is not something that must be always on. Good healers do not need mana songs except for a few encounters.
I see most healers wasting their mana.
Requiem is more important than mana song and does not apply a 20% dmg penalty.

You cannot judge a class at low level. BRD is weak and boring till lvl 45+ and it really shines at 48. There is no fixed rotation since you rely on proc.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

With log parser : http://ffxivlogrep.com/summary/

Songs is not something that must be always on. Good healers do not need mana songs except for a few encounters.
I see most healers wasting their mana.
Requiem is more important than mana song and does not apply a 20% dmg penalty.

You cannot judge a class at low level. BRD is weak and boring till lvl 45+ and it really shines at 48. There is no fixed rotation since you rely on proc.

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you have not done any of the hard modes yet... You are not killing that stuff without a bard using songs.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

You cannot judge a class at low level. BRD is weak and boring till lvl 45+ and it really shines at 48. There is no fixed rotation since you rely on proc.

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I've seen high lv BRD streams and a youtube video displaying BRD single damage rotation doesn't change at all but getting Windbite at mid 30s. AoE is a bit different and they also have a nice debuff but I just find the class boring to play in dungeons.

A lot of people are under estimating what a Dragoon actually brings to groups. Amazing burst damage for target switching, the slow debuff(think other classes bring this as well), threat drop move so threat isn't a huge issue, 2 set of stuns(not that great since most bosses are immune let game), and solid AOE damage. I think the Piercing debuff may also give extra dmg to BRD. If SE changes jump to make Dragoon immune/avoid to dmg while they jump and they will be great.