No Arrows in ARR?!

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Fact: Both the BRD and WAR have that option, BRD doesn't have the option not to use arrows.

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THEY HAVE!!! but...you need to smack mob's face with your fist XD

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Dunno why I'm even going to grace this with an answer...

where the hell in my argument did I EVER say I was rich or was leet?!?! If you really must know I currently have less than 100k on my char right now, and the most I've ever had in this game at any time was 3 million gil (which is not much in this game) and I still have no problem affording ammunition for my bard, I have yet to beat garuda or van darnus on hard or even extreme mode yet, I hardly consider myself leet. I used myself as an example, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of main job arcs/brds who got to level 50, and never once cursed the fact that they had to buy ammo.

Also, justifying getting rid of something because you think it is archaic or outdated is just concieted of you. As I stated before, no one has given a good reason to get rid of the feature. (and given that you keep repeating the same garbage, it's unlikely there is one) Until I hear otherwise from say a mod or a dev, I say to you again: I win, debate over, goodbye.

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Im sorry did you say I win again?

Also never said you are rich, just said the "I did it so everyone else has to" complaint is useless. And unlike you I dont have to provide a reason why its gone, so it doesn't matter what I say (arrows are gone because chocolate tastes good, just a dandy reason for you). Since SE has removed it and you are complaining its gone, you have to give reason and petition it back.

Since you cant, I must win (according to your logic)

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Dunno why I'm even going to grace this with an answer...

where the hell in my argument did I EVER say I was rich or was leet?!?! If you really must know I currently have less than 100k on my char right now, and the most I've ever had in this game at any time was 3 million gil (which is not much in this game) and I still have no problem affording ammunition for my bard, I have yet to beat garuda or van darnus on hard or even extreme mode yet, I hardly consider myself leet. I used myself as an example, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of main job arcs/brds who got to level 50, and never once cursed the fact that they had to buy ammo.

Also, justifying getting rid of something because you think it is archaic or outdated is just concieted of you. As I stated before, no one has given a good reason to get rid of the feature. (and given that you keep repeating the same garbage, it's unlikely there is one) Until I hear otherwise from say a mod or a dev, I say to you again: I win, debate over, goodbye.

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Wow... the "I win" stuff should have stayed in second grade in my opinion. You've yet to even address the system, other than the fact of "I did it, so should everyone else". Just because a system limps on and functions does not mean it's a good system. Tell me with a straight face you enjoy spending an hour a week (rough estimate) or the equivalent in gil to get your arrows. I can tell you, unless you're nuts, you don't enjoy it. Your only defense of the system is that it works now. There's always room to change it for the better. As of now, it's a chore.

MMO's are focusing more on real content rather than chore based gameplay.

*Edit* And it's not just a few people here on forums who think the system is outdated. The industry as a whole has moved away from consumable ammo within the past few years. They realized that no matter how much immersion there is or minor economy flow (since it's not a gil sink to begin with unless you use only vendor arrows), chores like this only serve to add to player burnout.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Lol ok I just had to comment on this one.

Looking at the archer/bard forum, I see one thread asking for arrow removal that is buried under a few pages, but that is about it. One thread, that is it. I can't comment on the other languages, however, I am pretty sure there was little demand for it...

With all of these changes we are getting, maybe they aren't doing them because people are whining, but rather because... *gasp* these changes make sense...

We are seeing many changes in 2.0 that are clearly being made to make the game more enjoyable to a larger audience. It is obvious these alterations are causing you some amount of mental distress, yet here you remain. Instead of griping about them catering to certain "lifestyles", maybe you should take a step back and realize that they have a clear vision for 2.0, and you were expecting them to cater it to your "lifestyle".

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Well, considering they are changing the ammo system because more than a few people were using weathered arrows all the way to cobalt, I would say the bums won, dude. Oh, and about their clear vision for 2.0, what we say does have an impact on what happens. You would do well to remember that, instead of trying to justify every bad decision. I know they don't listen to every "griper", but on occasion they do tend to listen to player feedback. Don't be that guy, no one likes SE apologists.

I'm sure they had a clear vision for 1.0 as well, or at least that's what they told you and the stock holders.

I don't know how 2.0 will turn out, I can only voice my opinion and let the chips fall where they may.

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Originally Posted by Hart

Well, considering they are changing the ammo system because more than a few people were using weathered arrows all the way to cobalt, I would say the bums won, dude.

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They in no way stated that was the reason. You're literally pulling facts out of the air to support your position. Yoshi-P gave the dev team's reasoning in the translation. I suggest you reread for context and clarity

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Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

Please list all of the FF games where you have to actually buy the ammo for your bow/gun/etc.

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III, IV, and XI.

V I think had to as well, but I'm not completely certain.

any chance they will implement quivers with these?

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/im...0px-Arrows.PNG

XD

Im glad that there wont be arrow requirement anymore. They are a hasstle to make anyways

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Originally Posted by Aion

any chance they will implement quivers with these?

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/im...0px-Arrows.PNG

XD

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Nope, if they're taking away managing this, may as well have only single arrows with no special properties, since that would be micromanagement, which people seemingly hate.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Nope, if they're taking away managing this, may as well have only single arrows with no special properties, since that would be micromanagement, which people seemingly hate.

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The sun might turn into a cow too. The moon will be a horse and the game will be farmville.

On topic: Yeah it would be cool, they haven't mentioned what type of arrows we'll get. I'm going to guess it'll be like FFXII's quiver system.

Do we play the same game?

Ok, whatever. Bring on 2.0! I can't wait to see how much easier they can make things. You've succeeded in converting me on this whole no arrow thing, really, I can't thank you enough. You said something earlier about researching for stuff outside of the game and how that was just a punishment. I wholeheartedly agree, they should implement tutorials that tell you how to beat certain bosses, oh, or maybe ghosts that appear in-game that show you where to stand in real time. Internet searches are so archaic, am I right? On second thought, some things are just too hard, we almost need an auto-pilot of sorts like in NSMB.

What other "outdated" mechanics can we get rid of? How about repairs, that is usually a real bummer. Man, I really hate going to get my stuff repaired. I mean, this is fantasy right?! Seems like a pretty inconvenient and outdated system.



In all seriousness though, I really don't understand why people support casualization of this game, how much easier can it get? I'm all for adding systems and tweaking stuff but look at how many people have every job maxed. Look at how easy everything has become.

Take this whole reducing gil fiasco for example, look at the uproar. Everything is getting adjusted and everybody isn't really losing anything but people just can't handle it. People with the means to get their original sum of money back. Do people even feel a sense of accomplishment when they play? I just have a hard time coming around to the idea that taking something away from the game is beneficial, especially when that thing is the archers need for arrows.

They took away the need for TP when they added auto attacks, now they're giving max TP at the beginning of every fight. Have we really sunk so low, that we don't have the attention span to wait for attacks to land before we can make with the flashy moves?

I guess I'm just old-fashioned, maybe I do need to get with the times. Unfortunately for you all, Yoshi-P will have to drag me kicking and screaming.

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Originally Posted by Hart

Do we play the same game?

Ok, whatever. Bring on 2.0! I can't wait to see how much easier they can make things. You've succeeded in converting me on this whole no arrow thing, really, I can't thank you enough. You said something earlier about researching for stuff outside of the game and how that was just a punishment. I wholeheartedly agree, they should implement tutorials that tell you how to beat certain bosses, oh, or maybe ghosts that appear in-game that show you where to stand in real time. Internet searches are so archaic, am I right? On second thought, some things are just too hard, we almost need an auto-pilot of sorts like in NSMB.

What other "outdated" mechanics can we get rid of? How about repairs, that is usually a real bummer. Man, I really hate going to get my stuff repaired. I mean, this is fantasy right?! Seems like a pretty inconvenient and outdated system.



In all seriousness though, I really don't understand why people support casualization of this game, how much easier can it get? I'm all for adding systems and tweaking stuff but look at how many people have every job maxed. Look at how easy everything has become.

Take this whole reducing gil fiasco for example, look at the uproar. Everything is getting adjusted and everybody isn't really losing anything but people just can't handle it. People with the means to get their original sum of money back. Do people even feel a sense of accomplishment when they play? I just have a hard time coming around to the idea that taking something away from the game is beneficial, especially when that thing is the archers need for arrows.

They took away the need for TP when they added auto attacks, now they're giving max TP at the beginning of every fight. Have we really sunk so low, that we don't have the attention span to wait for attacks to land before we can make with the flashy moves?

I guess I'm just old-fashioned, maybe I do need to get with the times. Unfortunately for you all, Yoshi-P will have to drag me kicking and screaming.

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FOIrYyQawG...0/StrawMan.jpg

lol @ straw man.

Yo but you guys are missing the best part. ARC/BRD gets AUTO SHOT! Talk about making shit casual. Now people won't get carpal tunnel while doing white damage.

THEY NEED TO PUT SKILL BACK IN THIS GAME GUYZ.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lreuddYzXd1qct44h.gif

Carpal tunnel is like the rumble pack but inside my wrist

without it how will I feel the realistic pangs of pain that my character surely feels???

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FOIrYyQawG...0/StrawMan.jpg

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You sir, you I like.

Also time /=/ skill

Micromanagement of inventory/=/ skill

Micromanagement of cooldowns = skill

Theorycrafting can possibly equal skill if you're the one creating/deriving formulas, or you're trying a new gear set that bucks trends in order to hit certain caps.

Farming mats /=/ skill

Running out of Fire = skill come ARR...and right now if you're not living in the EU

lol@lolzpics

My only concern in all of this....Will this affect arc/brds damage output. I see people saying "well maybe they will put in quivers you just equip and always have that arrow" I ask since they did finally make it so that arrow damage is a visible factor in combined damage with the bow so removing it would mean one of two routes:

A.) Bow damage will increase and arrows will just magically appear when you go to shoot (no equip able item for arrows)

or

B.) As others speculate there will be quivers you buy that give an endless amount of xtype of arrow that has visible damage similar to current existing arrows.

or

C.) Bow damage will not increase, quivers will have special properties but no damage increase meaning you'll still have multiple inventory slots dedicated to ammo that will be swapped in depending on what you are fighting. (I highly doubt this since SE mechanics and general consensus is to avoid gear swapping period)


That being said two routes will result in brd/arc doing less damage (unless special property, non-consumable, arrows will compensate for this). That being said I'd like to have clarification as to just how they are going to work out this new system of "no need to buy arrows guys!" since it is a combined effect to ranged attack output.

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

That being said two routes will result in brd/arc doing less damage (unless special property, non-consumable, arrows will compensate for this). That being said I'd like to have clarification as to just how they are going to work out this new system of "no need to buy arrows guys!" since it is a combined effect to ranged attack output.

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Clearly the formula is reworked so that the per shot damage is not dictated by Bow + Arrow and instead just Bow... I mean seriously what the hell do you expect them to do? Remove arrows and leave current formula as is?

Also, there are no quivers confirmed so you can stop trying to include that in your speculating.

God these forums...

A little bird just told me that arrows are being replaced with rubber bands. Different colors and thicknesses do different types of damage. Instead of quivers, we'll be carrying rubber band balls, and our 15-minute skill is to hurl the entire ball at our target "softball pitcher-style", after which it bounces back at us to reuse. SE has the animation all set up after spending days with various Midwestern State Varsity teams to get it "just right". Bard songs will also now all be played by twanging on a rubber band; green for ballad, red for minuet, and blue for paeon.

Needless to say, I'm on the edge of my seat for this update.

I love the idea of various quivers. FFXII used this method for bows. Especially since BRD DD is fucking useless now, it'd be nice to not waste money to deal minor damage.

I love the flow of butthurt that bursts forth with each new seemingly minor update about FFXIV:ARR.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...30/832/9c6.gif

Seriously, don't stop. I'm entertained.

Still stupid, there is no point.

You all are seriously blind followers. "WHATEVER YOSHI DOES, IS GOD LIKE!"

I would say its more about the dynamics of the gear system.. there is probably an issue with being able to use arrows with a set.. since the set is similar to a bazaar system it would be like trying to shoot arrows from your retainer.. all of the other classes can equip a weapon in one of their gear sets and it stays there.. right now having to reload ammo quickly from your inventory to a gear set may be an issue.. just a thought

And now people have been warned about this, arrows prices are going to drown in the abyssal depths of darkness... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Still stupid, there is no point.

You all are seriously blind followers. "WHATEVER YOSHI DOES, IS GOD LIKE!"

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You are the last person on these forums that can say that.

You have never suggested anything actually progressive for this game.

You are the leading example of a person who repeatedly petitions and rallies for a personal cause under the guise of it being better for the game.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You are the last person on these forums that can say that.

You have never suggested anything actually progressive for this game.

You are the leading example of a person who repeatedly petitions and rallies for a personal cause under the guise of it being better for the game.

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That is wrong my friend, I've given many ideas. Sorry lol ^.^

Hey Rokien...

Playing ARR isn't mandatory. Feel free to you know... not.

I mean I have problems with ARR, but this is a positive change. Stop shitting on everything just so you can act out your persona.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

That is wrong my friend, I've given many ideas. Sorry lol ^.^

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I didn't say you never gave ideas. I stated that none of them were progressive ones for the betterment of the game as a whole. Repeatedly proven true by the massive opposition you face by the community to the point of ridicule.

Reading comprehension 101.

Also, I'm not your friend.

Arrows seem to be not "inn" any longer. in any MMO.

Tera, DAOC etc.

Casual for the win.

Stockpiling ammunition does not make one hardcore.

This is an example of streamlining. It doesn't remove a measure of skill, but rather a pointless annoyance.

Speaking as someone who leveled Botanist, Miner, Carpenter and Blacksmith to make his own ammo I gotta say... I couldn't be happier.

This is a great bit of news that I am personally very happy about.

Can I keep my old arrows for the memories? I want to especially keep a stack of mythril arrows, cause those fuckers were a journey (especially before they added the vultures to la noscea).

Am really sad they taking out the ammo, cause they are opting for a MOAR REALISUTIKU game yet what they been doing since they take out animations and physics now the reality that is if you are gonna shoot something,...well ladies and gentleman its not big science that you will end up will less things to shoot. sad sad bout this

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Stockpiling ammunition does not make one hardcore.

This is an example of streamlining. It doesn't remove a measure of skill, but rather a pointless annoyance.

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well it also has nothing to do with hardcore. its roleplaying wise.

Oh look! They're making it so <insert gameplay change that presents a nearly imperceptible negative impact on any given class>! We should do a 20+ page thread arguing over it!

If they served no real purpose as a consumable, there's no reason to keep them. By purpose I mean:

*Various effects or damage types based on equipped ammo.
*A reason to switch or conserve ammo for a particular weapon (not even a factor in this game, more so in shooters)

The current arrows serve no real purpose. What's the difference between using arrows right now and a proposed system of not using arrows? One less item to carry around. That's it.

Going from a lore perspective, that's an entirely different issue. Though over time I've come to realize that not everything in a game needs a precise explanation and often trying to explain some things just makes it more confusing than leaving it to the imagination. As long as it is consistent and the game world itself treats the game mechanic like it should be there, there's no problem with it in my eyes.

I'm still not sure why people are arguing about cost and prices and stuff, when the major reason why they took out arrows is because managing ammo is a pain in the ass and literally serves no game enhancing purpose for this genre in any way.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Going from a lore perspective, that's an entirely different issue. Though over time I've come to realize that not everything in a game needs a precise explanation and often trying to explain some things just makes it more confusing than leaving it to the imagination. As long as it is consistent and the game world itself treats the game mechanic like it should be there, there's no problem with it in my eyes.

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There's not even any 'lore' needed to explain the lack of arrows or using arrows. A bow or crossbow that shoots arrows, and a gun that shoots bullets is more or less implied by the game world. What people mean to say is they want realism, to which I will only need to point them to release day FFXIV which tried very hard to be realistic and ended up being a piece of s**t. Realism in video games is good in moderate amounts.

Realism in video games is only good when they make a clever game mechanic to represent it and it doesn't hinder more fundamental aspects of the game. Such as inventory management in games like Resident Evil 4 and food in The World Ends With You.

In an MMO things like class balance hold fundamental value and segregating classes via ammunition requirements is a good way to throw it off.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

Clearly the formula is reworked so that the per shot damage is not dictated by Bow + Arrow and instead just Bow... I mean seriously what the hell do you expect them to do? Remove arrows and leave current formula as is?

Also, there are no quivers confirmed so you can stop trying to include that in your speculating.

God these forums...

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Using your own words..."god these forums" since you obviously can't read and it wasn't meant as mere speculation more so asking for clarification of how they will offset the change to output. Current formula puts bow+ammo combination up with 2hander damage totals (106+56=162). You drop the ammo portion you are left with just the bow, and as of yet they have not mentioned anything about how they will address no longer needing to buy consumable ammo.

To clarify the part you didn't quote, that was actual speculation, it was to find out if one of those options will be the way they compensate for the loss of consumable ammo. One was based off how original ranged damage to various targets would work in original class inception, and thus worked into strategy of how archer would approach each situation based on mob. Another is based on not needing any additional equipment other than the bow itself for output in which they would instead increase the Bow damage rating to make up for the loss. The last is what will happen if they don't adjust the bow damage to make up for the damage lost from the consumable damage part of the equation (AKA consumable arrows) and instead just make the projectile magically appear from thin air only retaining the bows base damage for output. To this end it is wide open for speculation, and because of this I asked for clear-cut picture to community reps so they can then relay the inquiry to developers to get a clarified response.