So I can't play and tell with EU/NA/JP friends in ARR...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

"Hi, I can't win this argument, so you're a troll."

You are just unbelievable. I've seen a lot of people full of it on the internet but you take the cake. The simple fact is, what is causing the latency issue is the distance from our clients to the servers in Japan. The only way to fix that is to bring new servers to our region, and that's exactly word for word what Yoshida said he was going to do. Hops are a result of your ISP, and SE can't do anything about it. Everything you have said in this thread has been based on fiction, and a general lack of understanding of how the internet works.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

a data center is just a building that houses servers.

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I am bawling over here!

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

I am bawling over here!

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I understand that you are upset over the change but there's no need to cry over it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

"Hi, I can't win this argument, so you're a troll."

You are just unbelievable. I've seen a lot of people full of it on the internet but you take the cake. The simple fact is, what is causing the latency issue is the distance from our clients to the servers in Japan. The only way to fix that is to bring new servers to our region, and that's exactly word for word what Yoshida said he was going to do. Hops are a result of your ISP, and SE can't do anything about it. Everything you have said in this thread has been based on fiction, and a general lack of understanding of how the internet works.

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I've won the argument and refuted all the misnomers and fallacies that you've presented with hard data and factual information. This will be my final reply to you. There are several others who have agreed with me thus far, and will continue to after my final reply. I guess you can never admit that you're wrong. All you insist on doing is calling into question my 12 years of experience in the industry. I guess you still didn't look up what ATM is yet. Its exactly what I described to you. While its an older technology its very much heavily in use and allows you to bind virtual circuits called PVCs to physical circuits Those PVCs can be assigned bandwidth limits and other traffic shaping rules.

Sounds like you need to also read up on the OSI model is because in any of your assertions you really fail to comprehend the differences between Layer 2 and Layer 3 routing. I mean the OSI model is the basic of basic. Its whats taught day one in entry Cisco certification courses. Sooo. Yea bye.

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

I am bawling over here!

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Yea apparently he doesn't know what meet me rooms, carrier hotels or wire centers are either. Major fail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

I've won the argument and refuted all the misnomers and fallacies that you've presented with hard data and factual information. This will be my final reply to you. There are several others who have agreed with me thus far, and will continue to after my final reply. I guess you can never admit that you're wrong. All you insist on doing is calling into question my 12 years of experience in the industry. I guess you still didn't look up what ATM is yet. Its exactly what I described to you. While its an older technology its very much heavily in use and allows you to bind virtual circuits called PVCs to physical circuits Those PVCs can be assigned bandwidth limits and other traffic shaping rules.

Sounds like you need to also read up on the OSI model is because in any of your assertions you really fail to comprehend the differences between Layer 2 and Layer 3 routing. I mean the OSI model is the basic of basic. Its whats taught day one in entry Cisco certification courses. Sooo. Yea bye.

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The only place you've won this argument is in your own mind. Using other peoples opinions doesn't help your case, there are several people who have agreed with me as well hence my likes vs yours. You haven't provided any facts, and anything you've tried to pass off as a fact I've easily disproved with actual links to the information that proves it false even. All you've done is throw around a lot of terms that don't even relate to the topic in a frivolous attempt to try to convince people you know something about it when you obviously don't. Based on the accusations you've been making and the structure of your posts not only am I thoroughly convinced that you don't have 12 years experience as a "Network Engineer" as you claim, but I seriously question if you've even spent 12 years on this earth or not.

I'm glad to see you've conceded the point and decided to stop posting. It's better that this sort of misinformation isn't spread to others. I expect that we won't be seeing your face around here anyway after regional servers are in fact implemented.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Yea apparently he doesn't know what meet me rooms, carrier hotels or wire centers are either. Major fail.

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There you go throwing around random terms again that don't even apply. I thought you said you were going to save yourself the embarrassment and stop posting anyway.

*Gets popcorn* *Crunch*! :D

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Originally Posted by Starlord

*Gets popcorn* *Crunch*! :D

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http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...95/557/bd3.gif

I await the impending lock-inducing *and ruining our chances at getting a answer* flame war that is going to occur.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...95/557/bd3.gif

I await the impending lock-inducing *and ruining our chances at getting a answer* flame war that is going to occur.

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Don't worry there are like five other threads on the same subject. I doubt they will further elaborate though, Yoshida himself already made it perfectly clear. They probably consider it a good thing that some of you got confused somehow so that they don't have to hear people QQ about it. You'll be too excited when A Realm Reborn comes out to have time to complain about people being able to play on their own regions servers if they want to.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Yoshida himself already made it perfectly clear.

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Not very clear considering the confusion. But you keep telling yourself that.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Not very clear considering the confusion. But you keep telling yourself that.

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Right... "The players will have a choice of selecting a server based in their region or a server overseas." What's ambiguous about that? It's not his fault people don't know what a data center is, and instead of just looking it up came up with all these fantasy theories about it being a magic computer instead of being just a building that houses servers.

For the record this isn't even a topic of debate on the Japanese forums. It's just accepted as a fact like it should be considering it came straight from Yoshida himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Not very clear considering the confusion. But you keep telling yourself that.

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I love how he states that there is no confusion about it in the JP forums. Perhaps that is because there were no translation issues involved? Its happened before and I'm sure this isn't the last time.

Also note I stated I would no longer respond to Mijin, not too the thread. There are too many other intelligent people here to ignore such a lively topic! But alas we'll have to see what SE's official response to this is, if any.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

I love how he states that there is no confusion about it in the JP forums. Perhaps that is because there were no translation issues involved? Its happened before and I'm sure this isn't the last time.

Also note I stated I would no longer respond to Mijin, not too the thread. There are too many other intelligent people here to ignore such a lively topic! But alas we'll have to see what SE's official response to this is, if any.

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Lol I love how you just responded to something I said, but then a few sentences after claimed you were no longer responding to me.

content finder ? can i have it? were getting it

aka dungeons cross server- you cant RP with all your friends across multiple servers sitting around waiting. but youll be able to play with anyone

but yeah. no /tells to players on another server (if im assuming correctly) oh well! lol, youll have a mailbox, maybe that will help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veltaine

content finder ? can i have it? were getting it

aka dungeons cross server- you cant RP with all your friends across multiple servers sitting around waiting. but youll be able to play with anyone

but yeah. no /tells to players on another server (if im assuming correctly) oh well! lol, youll have a mailbox, maybe that will help

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This is just speculation, but I figured it would be the other way around like on WoW. Dungeon finder will be regional, and you will be able to msg people on your friends list regardless of server? idk we'll see. But if they allow cross region dungeon finder that kind of defeats the purpose of having regional servers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veltaine

content finder ? can i have it? were getting it

aka dungeons cross server- you cant RP with all your friends across multiple servers sitting around waiting. but youll be able to play with anyone

but yeah. no /tells to players on another server (if im assuming correctly) oh well! lol, youll have a mailbox, maybe that will help

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I almost wish there was a way they could go for a server architecture like Eve. But I'm not sure if that would be possible or fitting because its a different genre.

Mijin - one question. Do you actually spend anytime in-game, or does your playtime consist of forum posting? Practically every second or third post I see, is by you....and they're not short posts either.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Mijin - one question. Do you actually spend anytime in-game, or does your playtime consist of forum posting? Practically every second or third post I see, is by you....and they're not short posts either.

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I'm playing right now, I have two screens. I'm doing hamlet as DoH and it really doesn't take very much concentration...

http://mijin.org/wp-content/uploads/...ltitasking.png

The only time I post is when I'm actually ON the game tbh.

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Yoshida also hinted at his launch plans, mentioning that they will be opening completely blank servers for completely new players, so that they can discover and explore with fresh eyes. But however the launch turns out, one thing is for certain: from what we’ve seen so far, this truly is A Realm Reborn.

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Source: http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=30484&storypage=2

The new servers he mentions I'm assuming will be our regional servers that he talked about in the interview during the 25th anniversary event.

22ms to nearest server, 278ms to Tokyo >_>. All my friends in game are NA, I will have no one to play with if they do region only. I'm pretty sure they wont though, or at least only introduce new regional servers not change some over.

Here goes, I will try to keep this simple. It is hard since I do not know if anyone on this forum is a network engineer or just a video game player. But from what I can tell about how things work on company vs. personal internet. You get what you pay for.

Companies around the world have centralized servers they house all there precious data and secrets. But they also need their employees and customers to get access to this data. If a company only used one data center and everyone used "Home Internet", then it would be a slow response indeed. What some of them do is purchase high speed connections and I mean alot faster then what we can buy at home on cable modem. This high speed links move between what these companies call "Regional Servers". This allows you and me and their employees access to this data and a substantially faster rate.

Now the servers are all connected via this "High Speed Link". But to share the data between them all there is a process called replication. It can happen very very fast. Almost instant. Almost which is where the no matter what lag comes in. Rest assured it will be alot faster then it is today in ffxiv.

This does not mean isolated servers. This means replicated or "Clustered" data as it will actually be named. This is not a term that SE is going to use with end users or customers as we are termed.

The are going to generalize this and just say regional servers = faster connections. To most people that is all they need for information at this time. However since a few people on this thread might understand what I am saying I thought I would type up a explanation in a little more detail.

Now here comes the easy part.

You log into the game and pick NA server 1 for example. Anything you do on NA Server 1 is replicated to Tokyo 1 and all other servers in the network or "Game" as I will call it. The changes take place on the master server "Tokyo 1" and are replicated at a very fast rate. You get to keep using your broadband connection at whatever speed you can afford to buy. The connections between these servers is probably fiber optic and multi threaded. We are talking very very fast. By the time you swing a sword the japan player will see it in real time. More real time then current setup in servers.

This will drastically reduce the delay or lag as it is called while at the same time provide everyone with a more competitive chance at server resources.

This means all current server players can and for most likely foreseeable future be on the same server, just on a different back end link. This connection or "regional server" option is mostly a back end solution. To most it is very hard to understand but it is not really that complicated and for the most part is transparent to almost all customers.

I currently support this very type of network in my current job daily. It has proven to be of most help to me and my customers.


This Back end solution is not the same thing as regional servers. It is possible they could end up doing this if enough people wanted to play with just their countries servers. I however have not read or watch any video that has actually come out and said this is going to happen. I have however watched video which is clear that Yoshi-P does in fact support the back end solution I have suggested in my document on this forum today. Most of you will not even know the difference except maybe you have to pick a NA server for your first login and once on you will see the same faces as before. From around the world. No difference what so ever. Well maybe faster response times for you to swing that sword or axe lol.

^Best possible way to explain it. Love it. I just hope it keeps people from repeatedly freaking out, thinking we're going to wind up with region-only servers.

I just got one question for you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFPf7wrLWxg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WHS

Here goes, I will try to keep this simple. It is hard since I do not know if anyone on this forum is a network engineer or just a video game player. But from what I can tell about how things work on company vs. personal internet. You get what you pay for.

Companies around the world have centralized servers they house all there precious data and secrets. But they also need their employees and customers to get access to this data. If a company only used one data center and everyone used "Home Internet", then it would be a slow response indeed. What some of them do is purchase high speed connections and I mean alot faster then what we can buy at home on cable modem. This high speed links move between what these companies call "Regional Servers". This allows you and me and their employees access to this data and a substantially faster rate.

Now the servers are all connected via this "High Speed Link". But to share the data between them all there is a process called replication. It can happen very very fast. Almost instant. Almost which is where the no matter what lag comes in. Rest assured it will be alot faster then it is today in ffxiv.

This does not mean isolated servers. This means replicated or "Clustered" data as it will actually be named. This is not a term that SE is going to use with end users or customers as we are termed.

The are going to generalize this and just say regional servers = faster connections. To most people that is all they need for information at this time. However since a few people on this thread might understand what I am saying I thought I would type up a explanation in a little more detail.

Now here comes the easy part.

You log into the game and pick NA server 1 for example. Anything you do on NA Server 1 is replicated to Tokyo 1 and all other servers in the network or "Game" as I will call it. The changes take place on the master server "Tokyo 1" and are replicated at a very fast rate. You get to keep using your broadband connection at whatever speed you can afford to buy. The connections between these servers is probably fiber optic and multi threaded. We are talking very very fast. By the time you swing a sword the japan player will see it in real time. More real time then current setup in servers.

This will drastically reduce the delay or lag as it is called while at the same time provide everyone with a more competitive chance at server resources.

This means all current server players can and for most likely foreseeable future be on the same server, just on a different back end link. This connection or "regional server" option is mostly a back end solution. To most it is very hard to understand but it is not really that complicated and for the most part is transparent to almost all customers.

I currently support this very type of network in my current job daily. It has proven to be of most help to me and my customers.


This Back end solution is not the same thing as regional servers. It is possible they could end up doing this if enough people wanted to play with just their countries servers. I however have not read or watch any video that has actually come out and said this is going to happen. I have however watched video which is clear that Yoshi-P does in fact support the back end solution I have suggested in my document on this forum today. Most of you will not even know the difference except maybe you have to pick a NA server for your first login and once on you will see the same faces as before. From around the world. No difference what so ever. Well maybe faster response times for you to swing that sword or axe lol.

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It looks like what I thought when I heard about this "Multidata Servers", I only was not sure about the reality of it. :p
Anyway if the communication with "Tokyo 1" is something like 10 or less millisecond it won't affect in any way the gaming experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WHS

Long posts of opinions

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Hi,

I just wanted to let you know that what your suggesting isn't possible, and the reasons why have already been posted in this thread and many others several times over. We'll actually be getting regional servers in NA and EU that we will have the option to play on, and JP will have their own servers as well. This was confirmed by Yoshida in the recent talk show even, and in interviews.

Pseudo-regional/replicated server tech, while better than what we are working with now, is still like trying to place a band-aid on a broken leg.
Unless Square has devised a way to circumvent the laws of physics, even a VPN-like link directly to the server's doorstep (from the US, sans all the encryption nonsense) would add, at the very least, an extra 100-110ms (fiber optic cables have an inherent, real world latency of ~5µs/km, and that's over a ~21,000km submarine telecom link in the Pacific, like JUSCN or PC-1). Factor in other nice things such as router and signal amplifier latencies and intracontinental travel times, and, from New York, one is easily looking at a minimum ping of ~200-250ms (~100ms East <-> West coasts, 100+ms West coast <-> JP). That's also assuming 0 overhead/compute time from the servers too, which is completely unrealistic.

Now, in contrast, instead of (or in addition to?) investing in such tech and continuing to force players to endure such atrocious (for gaming) latencies, open up a shard or two in regional NOCs -- say, Chicago or Austin for NA, maybe Cologne/Leipzig, DE or Prague for Europe -- and allow players the choice; either play with "everybody" on Square's Worldwide, Japanese servers and sacrifice your ping/response times to do so, or play on a regional server with potentially less players but with more palatable pings (averaging ~50-100ms, typically). With everybody being able to make at least one character on every realm, is this really such a bad idea?

Lastly, if they were intending on having XIV be as slow as XI, in regards to combat, then I really don't think this would be as much of an issue to people. But after Ifrit, the talk of future PvP, the vocal admiration of World of Warcraft (not a bad thing, necessarily, I'm just being truthful here), and the possibly resultant desire to make combat more "fast-paced" or "interesting", people are understandably concerned, because that means their location/residence (which, for most, is largely unmovable) will have an even greater impact than it already does on their enjoyment of such a beautiful game... not to mention when a competitor has a near-guaranteed 1/4-second head start on everything they see and do.
At least when playing on a regional shard, that kind of advantage all but disappears.

Offering players the option is the best course of action here, "purity" and "tradition" be damned...

And as a bit of an aside -- even though, funny enough, it was the main point of the thread -- it would be sooooo nice if Square reps could be, y'know, not so quiet and nebulous on issues like this for a change. I know, some things get lost in translation, but...isn't that precisely why we have community reps..? To provide clarity and elucidate..? o.O
(Quick! Someone throw a ball of yarn! lol)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scratches

Pseudo-regional/replicated server tech, while better than what we are working with now, is still like trying to place a band-aid on a broken leg.
Unless Square has devised a way to circumvent the laws of physics, even a VPN-like link directly to the server's doorstep (from the US, sans all the encryption nonsense) would add, at the very least, an extra 100-110ms (fiber optic cables have an inherent, real world latency of ~5µs/km, and that's over a ~21,000km submarine telecom link in the Pacific, like JUSCN or PC-1). Factor in other nice things such as router and signal amplifier latencies and intracontinental travel times, and, from New York, one is easily looking at a minimum ping of ~200-250ms (~100ms East <-> West coasts, 100+ms West coast <-> JP). That's also assuming 0 overhead/compute time from the servers too, which is completely unrealistic.

Now, in contrast, instead of (or in addition to?) investing in such tech and continuing to force players to endure such atrocious (for gaming) latencies, open up a shard or two in regional NOCs -- say, Chicago or Austin for NA, maybe Cologne/Leipzig, DE or Prague for Europe -- and allow players the choice; either play with "everybody" on Square's Worldwide, Japanese servers and sacrifice your ping/response times to do so, or play on a regional server with potentially less players but with more palatable pings (averaging ~50-100ms, typically). With everybody being able to make at least one character on every realm, is this really such a bad idea?

Lastly, if they were intending on having XIV be as slow as XI, in regards to combat, then I really don't think this would be as much of an issue to people. But after Ifrit, the talk of future PvP, the vocal admiration of World of Warcraft (not a bad thing, necessarily, I'm just being truthful here), and the possibly resultant desire to make combat more "fast-paced" or "interesting", people are understandably concerned, because that means their location/residence (which, for most, is largely unmovable) will have an even greater impact than it already does on their enjoyment of such a beautiful game... not to mention when a competitor has a near-guaranteed 1/4-second head start on everything they see and do.
At least when playing on a regional shard, that kind of advantage all but disappears.

Offering players the option is the best course of action here, "purity" and "tradition" be damned...

And as a bit of an aside -- even though, funny enough, it was the main point of the thread -- it would be sooooo nice if Square reps could be, y'know, not so quiet and nebulous on issues like this for a change. I know, some things get lost in translation, but...isn't that precisely why we have community reps..? To provide clarity and elucidate..? o.O
(Quick! Someone throw a ball of yarn! lol)

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I agree with you 100%. I already linked to an interview that is less than two days old where Yoshida confirms that they are adding new servers. If that in addition to his exact quote that they would be adding regional servers in the talk show even aren't enough then I hope people will at least consider the fact that what there hoping for isn't even realistically possible. In any case, I suspect the reason why community reps aren't commenting on the subject is because, well look at all the people qqing. They would rather just let them go on believing what they want to believe until 2.0 comes out. They'll be a lot less likely to cry after it's already out considering they'll be busy.

From Live Interview 9/14:

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Yoshida: I wanted to address the issue of the new servers in other countries. First off when selecting a world it will show all of them but it will also show where each server is located. They will be unlocked, so for me, say I live in Japan, I can choose to use server located in Japan, and NA player can choose to choose the server closer to their region, but we don’t want to force the players to separate by countries since we have players who want to play in Japan or vice versa, and using content finder you can join with other region players and stuff also.

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So like I said, we will get our own servers in each region, but you can still play on other regions servers if it behoves you. Being right feels great. You should try it some time.

Why is this so complicated. FFXI uses regional data servers (just not as many as 14 will) When I connect to FFXI I do not connect to Japan, I connect to Los Angeles (from Seattle). A server to server connection is much faster than a client to server connection. Most of the lag is poor design, the rest can be attributed to server path limitations of client to server. Most other MMO out there use regional data servers. This is a common practice.

Still even in 11 most of the lag is related to your local connection, ISP, and computer.
That is why people on FIOS have less lag typically than those on Comcast. (as an example)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Network Engineer here. You're wrong.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-LIVE-Letter

How are you going to act now Mr. "Network Engineer"? :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cloverkitty

Why is this so complicated. FFXI uses regional data servers (just not as many as 14 will) When I connect to FFXI I do not connect to Japan, I connect to Los Angeles (from Seattle). A server to server connection is much faster than a client to server connection. Most of the lag is poor design, the rest can be attributed to server path limitations of client to server. Most other MMO out there use regional data servers. This is a common practice.

Still even in 11 most of the lag is related to your local connection, ISP, and computer.
That is why people on FIOS have less lag typically than those on Comcast. (as an example)

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Yep this is how it was supposed to be for XIV but like everything else, they're pushing to make XIV a standard MMO, so it's being like any other MMO you can find on the market, rather than something like XI.