post-Dawntrail even story dungeons are harder and more punishing to heal than ever

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Originally Posted by Khutulun

Tbh, the dungeons don't feel that much more demanding. We're still outscaling them a week later. Did Alexandria again with IL 696 GNB, properly using mitigations felt completely optional. Even the current two post-story dungeons are getting out scaled rn. I'll probably be sleeping during them in a week. Shame really, the ever rising IL really breaks FF14's content across all expansions.

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Dungeons -- when my character is at the appropriate gear level for them -- are my favorite content in MMOs. Because they're there as a stepping stone, though, they are never fun for very long.

This is why Mythic+ became a thing in WoW. Even after they started releasing Heroic difficulties, dungeons were always fun for the first few weeks, and boring forever after.

I finally did it.


I died to the first boss like 12 times tonight before i won, and the final boss took several attempts too, it's attacks don't give you a lot of time to move either.... or much of a chance to heal and shield/mit before all of the raidwides and rings.

It was kinda dissappointing because it felt like in both cases i barely scraped by, with constanly ending up low health from a couple of screwups and felt like in addition to my damage uptime suffering, I felt like i wasn't throwing out heals/shields/mitagations out on time which is why it was so close... but maybe some of the wipes were due to tunnel visioning on damage and healing still...I'm not sure.

Just worried because a lot of people say the last dungeon is even harder, let alone the expert dungeons and the normal raid... but at least the trial i have up next i do have the piece of mind of a co-healer and stuff i guess...

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Originally Posted by Granis

I finally did it.


I died to the first boss like 12 times tonight before i won, and the final boss took several attempts too, it's attacks don't give you a lot of time to move either.... or much of a chance to heal and shield/mit before all of the raidwides and rings.

It was kinda dissappointing because it felt like in both cases i barely scraped by, with constanly ending up low health from a couple of screwups and felt like in addition to my damage uptime suffering, I felt like i wasn't throwing out heals/shields/mitagations out on time which is why it was so close... but maybe some of the wipes were due to tunnel visioning on damage and healing still...I'm not sure.

Just worried because a lot of people say the last dungeon is even harder, let alone the expert dungeons and the normal raid... but at least the trial i have up next i do have the piece of mind of a co-healer and stuff i guess...

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good job
people complain first boss of the last dungeon is hard. but again, that's okay, you'll make it. if you need help, you can let me know and i'll run it with you as tank or heal, genuinely and patiently

Healers cry when they don't have to heal.

Healers cry when they have to heal.


Personally as someone who off-role's healer - I think the difficulty is fine.

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Originally Posted by Granis

yes but consider this:

finding the button and clicking on it takes time, while you're also trying to orient yourself and move in time, if you're using the mouse to both click on buttons and for camera control as you used WASD to move, clicking even instant cast buttons might cause you to die if the AoEs are too fast or too punishing. I typically find i can only toss out my instant casts towards the end of a movement phase for this reason, and because the boss does this 4 times in a row, there isn't enough "breather room" to use any abilities until the mechanic is over with and someone has probably either died to the aoes, the poison dot, or the spread markers.

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Being a clicker isn't the fault of the game though - Nothing stops you from keybinding your important stuff to accessible keys or even an MMO Mouse.

If you kick the clicker habit and keybind, you'll notice your reaction time improve once you develop muscle memory for those keybinds.


Eukrasia is binded to F for me - it's close to my movement keys and easily accessible.

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Originally Posted by Granis

yes but consider this:

finding the button and clicking on it takes time, while you're also trying to orient yourself and move in time, if you're using the mouse to both click on buttons and for camera control as you used WASD to move, clicking even instant cast buttons might cause you to die if the AoEs are too fast or too punishing. I typically find i can only toss out my instant casts towards the end of a movement phase for this reason, and because the boss does this 4 times in a row, there isn't enough "breather room" to use any abilities until the mechanic is over with and someone has probably either died to the aoes, the poison dot, or the spread markers.

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I also click my abilities. It just feels awkward to hit ctrl, shift, or ctrl+shift with the same hand I'm trying to also click 1-5 with.

With that in mind, now that you are through the problem dungeon, I suggest playing tank. You can make a handful of mistakes and, as long as you mitigate tank busters properly, vuln stacks in dungeons are glorified cosmetics. In addition there are less buttons to press compared to most healers, so it's much easier to parse which ability you need to click. There are occasionally tank specific mechanics in higher difficulty fights, but alternating with the other tank to soak a tower in the 1st DT extreme is way easier than healing the same content. lol

Hi, I'm a healer main too and I need two give you two advices, that might help you:

1. If possible, try playing using a controller. Yes, I know, some might say that mouse and keyboard is the better option BUT if you ask me, casting skills and still being able to move around is so much easier using a controller. I struggled with movement in the past too and one day was forced to use a controller (faulty keyboard) and never looked back.

2. As a sage you have to stay close to the enemies. Most of your dps skills force you to get near enemies. And like others said, hugging a boss can make it easier to move out of an attack. :)

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Originally Posted by Zano

I also click my abilities. It just feels awkward to hit ctrl, shift, or ctrl+shift with the same hand I'm trying to also click 1-5 with.

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I agree here, i don't know how people do it pushing ctrl or shit+numbers, its jsut not possible for my hand, my little finger is already at 1, how am i suppose.d to push ctrl?
I have a total of 29 Hotkeys for abilities, that is about the maximum i can handle, i only click stuff i rarely use, like situational 2 minute cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

I agree here, i don't know how people do it pushing ctrl or shit+numbers, its jsut not possible for my hand, my little finger is already at 1, how am i suppose.d to push ctrl?
I have a total of 29 Hotkeys for abilities, that is about the maximum i can handle, i only click stuff i rarely use, like situational 2 minute cooldowns.

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I hit 1-2-3 with my ring, middle, and pointer fingers! I've always kept my pinky finger near shift or ctrl since many games will bind those buttons to either crouching/sprinting actions.

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Originally Posted by Granis

I finally did it.


I died to the first boss like 12 times tonight before i won, and the final boss took several attempts too, it's attacks don't give you a lot of time to move either.... or much of a chance to heal and shield/mit before all of the raidwides and rings.

It was kinda dissappointing because it felt like in both cases i barely scraped by, with constanly ending up low health from a couple of screwups and felt like in addition to my damage uptime suffering, I felt like i wasn't throwing out heals/shields/mitagations out on time which is why it was so close... but maybe some of the wipes were due to tunnel visioning on damage and healing still...I'm not sure.

Just worried because a lot of people say the last dungeon is even harder, let alone the expert dungeons and the normal raid... but at least the trial i have up next i do have the piece of mind of a co-healer and stuff i guess...

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Congrats! You practiced and overcame the challenge, and with more practice it'll get easier. This is how everyone gets better at the game over time. :)

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Originally Posted by Arohk

I agree here, i don't know how people do it pushing ctrl or shit+numbers, its jsut not possible for my hand, my little finger is already at 1, how am i suppose.d to push ctrl?
I have a total of 29 Hotkeys for abilities, that is about the maximum i can handle, i only click stuff i rarely use, like situational 2 minute cooldowns.

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Ring, middle, and index fingers on WASD. Thumb on Space. Pinky on shift, able to move to ctrl easily. This works wonders if you have an MMO mouse. I genuinely have no idea how people use the number row for their rotation and can expect to move with WASD, though.

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Originally Posted by EiraWoqiso

Ring, middle, and index fingers on WASD. Thumb on Space. Pinky on shift, able to move to ctrl easily. This works wonders if you have an MMO mouse. I genuinely have no idea how people use the number row for their rotation and can expect to move with WASD, though.

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Holding down both left click and right click will cause your character to move forward in the direction your camera is facing. Very helpful when long, continuous movement is needed.

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Originally Posted by Caitamm

Holding down both left click and right click will cause your character to move forward in the direction your camera is facing. Very helpful when long, continuous movement is needed.

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I tend to do that outside of raids, I've always found it to be a little tricky to use when trying to do mechanics. Cool to hear that people have it mastered though!

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Originally Posted by EiraWoqiso

Ring, middle, and index fingers on WASD. Thumb on Space. Pinky on shift, able to move to ctrl easily. This works wonders if you have an MMO mouse. I genuinely have no idea how people use the number row for their rotation and can expect to move with WASD, though.

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maybe that's what i need is an mmo mouse. In ffxiv I keep my ring, middle, and pointer finger on q, w, e respectively and move with legacy movement for ease of turning away from the boss for glare mechanics, and during movement intensive moments i can click all my abilities. When there are moments i can stand still I switch my wasd hand to 1-5 and click anything not in my main rotation, such as defensives or my spellcasting burst combo for pld. I can do extremes/savages pretty comfortably, but i think that my current playstyle would be an issue if I ever wanted to do an ultimate.

mmo mouse really helps you reach more buttons, technically, rebinding the buttons around your hand helps a lot too. Even if you don't have mmo mouse, if you have additional buttons on it, binding them will help you immensely.
I use WASD to move, I've unbound strafe, if you hold left mouse button and press AD, you will strafe anyways. I almost always hold left mouse button to be able to quickly scan my surroundings, especially during a fight.
I've bound Q-E-R-F-T-G-` to hotbar buttons (qwerty keyb), these are easily reachable with the fingers you use to move, so are 1-2-3-4. You bind like... less used skills to those, you bind your 6 most used skills to your mouse, can only really comfortably reach 6 with my thumb myself, not because too short, rather because too long and I have to flex my thumb to reach more. You can also bind -all- of these buttons again to shift + the button, can do the same with CTRL and ALT.
I have nothing bound to keys further right-hand side of that, I'd need to hmm, change the position of my hand that moves my character to reach them, and then it takes a fair bit of brainpower and time to find the right position and resettle your hand.
If you're constantly doing this in combat, this is a huge loss in efficiency. ;o

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Originally Posted by EiraWoqiso

I genuinely have no idea how people use the number row for their rotation and can expect to move with WASD, though.

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it is a combination of moving with your mouse as well, but you need quick fingers, i use Q and E to strafe though instead of A and D which is closer to the numbers buttons.

looks like this
https://i.imgur.com/bnQR5ZD.jpeg

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

I've bound Q-E-R-F-T-G-` to hotbar buttons (qwerty keyb), these are easily reachable with the fingers you use to move, so are 1-2-3-4. You bind like... less used skills to those, you bind your 6 most used skills to your mouse, can only really comfortably reach 6 with my thumb myself, not because too short, rather because too long and I have to flex my thumb to reach more. You can also bind -all- of these buttons again to shift + the button, can do the same with CTRL and ALT.
I have nothing bound to keys further right-hand side of that, I'd need to hmm, change the position of my hand that moves my character to reach them, and then it takes a fair bit of brainpower and time to find the right position and resettle your hand.
If you're constantly doing this in combat, this is a huge loss in efficiency. ;o

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I use Q and E for strafing but i do keep important things on R and F. I'm very bad at finding where i am on the keyboard if i move my fingers too far away from q, w, e. lol

I just click the skill on the screen if I'm in a movement heavy part of the fight, it's on the far right of my bar, or on my 2nd/3rd skill bar. I have no doubt that changing to utilizing more hotkeys would probably make me a better player in the long run, but I'd hate the friction caused by relearning how to play the game.

This is basically how i organize all my tank bars:
https://i.imgur.com/39VWiAT.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Zano

I also click my abilities. It just feels awkward to hit ctrl, shift, or ctrl+shift with the same hand I'm trying to also click 1-5 with.

With that in mind, now that you are through the problem dungeon, I suggest playing tank. You can make a handful of mistakes and, as long as you mitigate tank busters properly, vuln stacks in dungeons are glorified cosmetics. In addition there are less buttons to press compared to most healers, so it's much easier to parse which ability you need to click. There are occasionally tank specific mechanics in higher difficulty fights, but alternating with the other tank to soak a tower in the 1st DT extreme is way easier than healing the same content. lol

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I rebound my ctrl and shift to mouse buttons instead.

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Originally Posted by Zano

I also click my abilities. It just feels awkward to hit ctrl, shift, or ctrl+shift with the same hand I'm trying to also click 1-5 with.

With that in mind, now that you are through the problem dungeon, I suggest playing tank. You can make a handful of mistakes and, as long as you mitigate tank busters properly, vuln stacks in dungeons are glorified cosmetics. In addition there are less buttons to press compared to most healers, so it's much easier to parse which ability you need to click. There are occasionally tank specific mechanics in higher difficulty fights, but alternating with the other tank to soak a tower in the 1st DT extreme is way easier than healing the same content. lol

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I generally don't bind ctrl/shift/alt-number keys into anything rotational because it's too awkward to mash in a fight. When I use modifier keys, it's usually with QWERASDFZXCV, which is a lot more comfortable. There's some overlap with WASD on those, which is where mouse movement comes in. I used to use autorun (bound to ~) a lot in WoW too, but using abilities stops your autorun in FF for some reason, so I've had to get out of that habit. If it's something crazy like needing to hit Ctrl-A while strafing left, I'll usually jump and hit the key while my momentum carries me in the air.

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Originally Posted by Caitamm

Holding down both left click and right click will cause your character to move forward in the direction your camera is facing. Very helpful when long, continuous movement is needed.

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I set my auto-run to middle mouse button and just do that instead tbh >.>

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Originally Posted by Granis

yes but consider this:

finding the button and clicking on it takes time, while you're also trying to orient yourself and move in time, if you're using the mouse to both click on buttons and for camera control as you used WASD to move, clicking even instant cast buttons might cause you to die if the AoEs are too fast or too punishing. I typically find i can only toss out my instant casts towards the end of a movement phase for this reason, and because the boss does this 4 times in a row, there isn't enough "breather room" to use any abilities until the mechanic is over with and someone has probably either died to the aoes, the poison dot, or the spread markers.

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Mayble the problem is that you are CLICKING buttons instead of having them on a keybind. I thought that was "MMO 101" since I started playing wow like 20 years ago.

I use a Logitech G600 mouse.


I keep things like my ST abilities, AOE abilities on the mouse.

Raid buffs, role abilities and mitigation are keybinded near my WASD keys for easy accessibility


Investing in an MMO mouse was one of the best investments I've made in my MMO gaming time and I also had 13 years of WoW before I came here.

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Originally Posted by royox

Mayble the problem is that you are CLICKING buttons instead of having them on a keybind. I thought that was "MMO 101" since I started playing wow like 20 years ago.

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I remember the days when ppl were like "lol clicker" "lmao clicker" when they saw a UI of someone without keybinds.

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Originally Posted by Granis

maybe for melees or other jobs with tons of instant cast abilities this isn't a big deal, but it's a huge deal for healers

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Maybe stop healing and let them die,

and so they stop trolling healers on the forum.

What I found is that they reused too many old models and mechs,

and I wonder if they really made much efforts in the new dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Granis

yes but consider this....(Snipped for space)

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As someone who plays Sge when I heal, I can only think that possibly this has to do with your layout and familiarity with said layout. I use a Controller/KB hybrid method of playing myself, but I know that if I've played other jobs for too long my over all reactions on Sge drop as I am thinking of a different layout and familiarity with said layout. I tend to have a very methodical way of mitigating various types of damage when it comes to either single target or party wide, such as pairing mits/sheilds with HoT, or seeking to enhance next shield to spread out the use of stronger shielding party/raid wide attacks. My familiarity with the layout is what makes it work as well as it does, but as far as healing others that comes down to how well they are avoiding damage as well as they have brought back more Vuln/DoT effects that are fairly potent to encourage avoiding them.


Luckily Sge is built in a way they can move and toss out heals/mits/sheilds rather easily with very few causing someone to root in place or learn to slide cast well. I find more often than not when I haven't been able to keep someone up, it wasn't due to being unable to keep them alive so much as they weren't very good at avoiding outgoing attacks. With DT they have started using bot Animated and Telegraphed tells, meaning if someone isn't paying attention they are more likely to take damage due to missing the animated tells prior to an otherwise avoidable attack. If they are playing like this, then yeah...the content is not very forgiving about it and you'll be lucky to keep them alive even with your best efforts. Part of the learning curve.

Just don’t touch the bad stuff. The end.

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

Maybe stop healing and let them die,

and so they stop trolling healers on the forum.

What I found is that they reused too many old models and mechs,

and I wonder if they really made much efforts in the new dungeons.

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You do realise you can actually be reported and account actioned for that?

Refusing to heal your group and causing other players to become incapacitated as a result is lethargic gameplay.



The official part of the ToS covering such behavior would be

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・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Refers to an act of obstructive behavior such as using specific skills in an unintended manner or taking advantage of battle mechanics to interfere with the gameplay of other players.

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

With DT they have started using bot Animated and Telegraphed tells

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Those have been in the game since ARR.

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Originally Posted by Besame

I used 3rd party apps like Healbot and 1 other I cannot recall and loved it

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I had to lookup healbot, as I don't play WoW and don't have any reason to know anything about any WoW addons, and likewise any addon with the word "bot" in the name is screaming "Doesn't want to play the game", but yeah... what I discovered: Healbot is an addon that primarily monitors various aspects in WoW about your party that would be relevant for healers, however, it DOES have the ability to automate casting of spells based on thresholds. Because of you claiming you enjoyed the use of such an addon in WoW, you have lost any and all credibility with me regarding anything to do with Final Fantasy XIV.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

You do realise you can actually be reported and account actioned for that?

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Not if they die to mechs themselves with 5 stacks of vulnerability,

While I am busy dodging the mechs running around

Git good and stop complaining,

I am not there to babysit you.

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Originally Posted by royox

Those have been in the game since ARR.

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They relied more heavily on telegraphed tells in ARR up to Stormblood. They didn't start relying on Animated tells more until Shadowbringers and beyond. Don't confuse an attack animation for an animated tell. Animated tells typically will have no telegraph or very limited telegraph (appear/disappear instantly). Animated tells are where the animation winds up more dramatically/positions before the attack is released with no cast/use bar.

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

They relied more heavily on telegraphed tells in ARR up to Stormblood. They didn't start relying on Animated tells more until Shadowbringers and beyond. Don't confuse an attack animation for an animated tell. Animated tells typically will have no telegraph or very limited telegraph (appear/disappear instantly). Animated tells are where the animation winds up more dramatically/positions before the attack is released with no cast/use bar.

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Well we had the Chimera that would change drastically the effects of the same attack depending on the eye glowing. Or Shiva changing weapons. The "Cyclops" kind of enemies didn't have a telegraph (they added them later because of reasons). But yeah I agree stormblood and shadowbringers is when they drastically increased the quantity of bosses that will do an animation as a "tell" of what's coming

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

They relied more heavily on telegraphed tells in ARR up to Stormblood. They didn't start relying on Animated tells more until Shadowbringers and beyond. Don't confuse an attack animation for an animated tell. Animated tells typically will have no telegraph or very limited telegraph (appear/disappear instantly). Animated tells are where the animation winds up more dramatically/positions before the attack is released with no cast/use bar.

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Exdeath says "Hi!"

*Edit* Kefka and Omega MF with environmental telegraphs, also. There have been examples of boss animation and environmental telegraphs since the beginning. The only expansion where I can't really think of one example is Endwalker.