So is there anything good about Dawntrail at all?

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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The forum is weirdly super negative about pretty much anything and everything. It's such a disconnect from what people say in-game about it and then going here and seeing hyperbole and negativity all-round.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

long story short is people who play video games are not good judges of video games.

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Is this bait? This is legendary levels of bait.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

The Forum Criers are getting paid by EA or something to downtalk everything in the game and litterally everything, even if it is something that people like very much and it is EVERYTHING they don't like :D

So ya dont worry about the forums, you may see one good thread now and then.

People should read Charles Dickens Book: Great Expectations

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Wish i was paid by EA. In that case i at least be able TO PLAY the game in the first place

The maps are really beautiful, well forested or cactused in Shaaloani's case. It was very jarring to go from lush tropical maps, jungles and floodplains to like.... Arizona. :D But I love that map too. Really captures the dry air of the Sonoran and the mesas. I love love love loved the magical blue undergrowth beneath the canopy in Yak T'el. A place like that is where I pictured the Fae coming from in SB before they were driven out of LaHEE forest. Maps from past expansions have seemed extremely bare and empty of any detail in comparison.

Not a fan of Tuli's bgm, it's a bit too high energy for town music. The track isn't bad, it just doesn't fit in my opinion. I feel like the main city should have a more mellow vibe because of the amount of time you have to spend there. The story did have an overdose of Wuk and I didn't realize how much until we got a break from her in Shaaloani. When the poo hit the proverbial fan, I did whine a bit when we had to go back being errand runner for her again. I got bored of the twins, loved Erenville participating as a guide, missed G'raha and screamed with joy when he reappeared. I really, really missed having our whole cast of Scion friends for most of the msq.

I have mobility issues with my hands on account of stroke and I've been playing primarily with trusts. The npc's seem to have been programmed to intentionally screw up now and then. Alisaie eats AoE's like nobody's business lately! I usually park myself right on top of Krile (who I marked with a + sign because she's so smol) and when a big hit is coming, she'll just stand right in the dead zone until the last second and then move, so I'm a step behind and get squashed by fists or lasers or what have you. It does teach the mechanic but also makes me a bit insane. I really, really, really love that I don't have to run all the way back.

Valigarmanda was a fun trial in trust, only died once. They played it up like this snake-bird was a massive threat and it took Galool Jaja and friends 10 days of continuous fighting to finally trap it and we smooshed him like a bug! Because of my reaction time I'm having a lot of trouble navigating Vanguard with trusts because of the crazy amount of AoE's stacking up all together, but most players seemed to enjoy the jump in difficulty. I hope I can get past it because I really want to see the rest of the story. I went up to 5 tries before I got booted out of the instance and packed it in for the night.

I wish there was a story only option we could choose that doesn't award gear for the people that play just for the story and aren't planning to participate in endgame raiding where we could watch the cutscenes and skip over the combat. I don't play with other people unless it's required because I don't want to inconvenience anybody with my disability but pretty much everything requires completion of the msq. All in all I enjoyed the story up to 97, where it started getting really interesting.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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The scene where

Vrtra appears and blasts the crap out of the airships? I mean, that was utterly epic in my view..... and ironically used 'Footfalls' from Endwalker as backing music!

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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Serious answer: Dawntrail is very good and you should stop reading this forum

Yeah, I just finished it last night.

The story isn't as hype as EW or ShB, but we (hopefully) all should have realized that beforehand. Other than a couple of minor gripes, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to the next chapter. The fights, environments, music, art, and new graphics are all super awesome.

Seems to me like the negativity around it is being massively overblown by a sizeable but very loud (overall) minority of people that are for some reason, obsessing over portraying it as the worst story ever and getting other people to agree with them.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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I was genuinely bored for the first like 2 levels and Wuk is an annoying character, but once you get about halfway through, things start to get more interesting. It's definitely not the best FF story, but it does get better if you can make yourself keep playing lol.

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Originally Posted by Isala

You literally had entire cutscenes running at single digit FPS! What the hell do you mean minor issues?!

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I litterally didn't but go off

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

I litterally didn't but go off

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There's no way you didn't have the 3 FPS windmill, or the 5 FPS classmates. Stop lying.

almost all of the zones were beautiful (except the cyberpunk one- it was big, boring and empty)
The trials & dungeons are great
The artifact gear is great imo- it looks so much better in game than I expected
AST card changes are tonedeaf (except the card descriptions)

I stayed off of the forums until now bc I knew the forums would be a circle jerk of hate.
So this is just my opinion Minor spoilers-

The pacing of the MSQ feels odd & I felt like I was rushed through each zone, given very little catching up with others to do & at the end, suddenly during a very serious conflict NOW we're taking our time to stop & enjoy the scenery & goof off? At the end, It was incredibly disjointed, as if now we're pumping the breaks. There were some good moments in the MSQ that I very much enjoyed- At times I enjoyed wuk lamat's character but I found myself more & more wanting her to be quiet. I lost interest by the final zone & zoned out for the remainder (except the milala area, that was interesting!)

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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I greatly disliked the story this time around, but I'm not going to say that it's literally all bad. There's a lot of hyperbole going around on both sides of "IT SUCKS IT'S THE WORST EVER" or "IT'S GREAT I LOVE IT HOW DARE YOU BE SO NEGATIVE." Typical black and white internet mob thinking. There are some good character moments in here...on occasion...if you're willing to sift through to get to them. The zones themselves are (mostly) beautiful and I enjoyed the music and game play. I liked exploring the new zones and learning about the new cultures. If you like Erenville, there's some really nice moments with him in the second half. Your enjoyment is going to vary somewhat by what common anime character tropes you find enjoyable or intolerable. But if anyone here hasn't finished the MSQ, PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, stop looking at the forums, and don't let other people influence your perspective of the MSQ. I purposely stayed off social media and here before I finished it. Turns out, I didn't like it. But decide how much you like or dislike it for yourself, at your own pace.

Solution 9 is so gorgeous! I can see myself chilling here vibing to the music for the next two years. Wish we could fly outside the market area though.

The music as a whole was very good this expansion. There was the one Disney song I didn't like, but that was the only one.

I'm also really happy about the two dye system and some hairstyles that got updated graphics. Can't wait to get more of those! Hrothgals were a nice addition too and I love seeing so many of them in cities.

The highlight for me has been viper. Such a fun job to play and twin swords is one of the coolest weapon types.

The mechanics in the dungeons and trials are fun as heck. And the world-building in Tural was fantastic.

I loved the first half of it. 2nd half not so much.

I mean combat feels great in general, in pve some of the revised mechanics are very interesting (looking at you ex1 tankbuster, you are cool) and some QoL stuff within the combat system feels pretty great even if you get lag spikes.
Graphical update is pretty great, old surfaces look amazing, for instance crystal tower looks superb, open world zones look great as well.
I guess thats it, hopefully this is a sort of an ARR style reboot

Never read the forums unless you're prepared for negativity. I found all sorts of haters on the forums saying that the mount tilt is giving everyone motion sickness, the expansion sucks, the main NPC sucks, graphics update sucks, etc. I go look up all of that stuff on YouTube and the comments were all positive with people that love everything- including the mount tilt. The forums have become a dumping ground for negativity.

People just want to complain for the "thrill" it seems. The story was good, disjointed in some instances, but what story isn't. I mean, as cute as the Loporrits are most people would say that part dragged in Endwalker, yet no one hates them. Plus, this was all new information, being given to us, to lay the groundwork for the next 10 years. Of course some of it might feel boring.

I think what most people are butt-hurt over, is that they are no longer the star of the show. Which is something we knew going into the expansion. I'm not going to say I loved every moment, but the way you see others talk, you'd think this expansion gave them cancer or something.

It's the age old adage of, "it's different, so it sucks". Until something even more different comes along, than it's perfect. People can be so confusing.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

It's the age old adage of, "it's different, so it sucks". Until something even more different comes along, than it's perfect. People can be so confusing.

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That is exactly what the complaints about the graphics update are all about. It changed faces so subtly that you need a before and after shot with a magnifying glass and a pixel by pixel comparison to find them, but that's enough to spark a megathread and other smaller threads of hate for the update.

Try as I might, I can't find anything to hate about my own character. His eyebrows look slightly different. There might be a pixel or two that are different now. Honestly, he looks great!

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Originally Posted by Eloah

People just want to complain for the "thrill" it seems. The story was good, disjointed in some instances, but what story isn't. I mean, as cute as the Loporrits are most people would say that part dragged in Endwalker, yet no one hates them. Plus, this was all new information, being given to us, to lay the groundwork for the next 10 years. Of course some of it might feel boring.

I think what most people are butt-hurt over, is that they are no longer the star of the show. Which is something we knew going into the expansion. I'm not going to say I loved every moment, but the way you see others talk, you'd think this expansion gave them cancer or something.

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The story was objectively poorly written. Endwalker and Shadowbringers, the two expansions with the most lauded story, aren't perfect and have some pacing issues, but their reception was positive because the story was good and fulfilling despite that. Dawntrail's was an audiobook version of a 5th grade textbook chapter about Peru stretched for about 20 hours, then a remix of Shadowbringers pulled out of its butt at the last minute. Every single part of it fell flat.

I'm firmly in the camp that your character shouldn't be the main character in an MMO, it's something I've criticized about modern MMOs including XIV for a long time. It really shrinks the scope of the world, which should actually be the focus. We were just some adventurer for huge swathes of XI, and people love it. But Dawntrail is like if we arrived in Aht Urgan and Naja Salaheem, instead of having a (still very cheesy, very anime, like the criticisms of Wuk) personality, just took us on a tour of Aht Urgan White Gate for about 20 hours of cutscenes and then out of nowhere we fight Luzaf.

The content overall is by far the best we had in a long while, I dare to say is the best from all expansions all the dungeons and Trials even the solo instances felt different and enjoyable, MSQ is just a skip and idc about it anymore I look forward for the raids and savage and all the content announced. Ppl talk alot about the story like if they replay the MSQ million of times, I have no doubt that the New Game+ is one of the most unused features of this game, after a patch or a expansion drops the msq is only relevant for a about a month from the moment you start the rest of the time you just log to do your daylies, to raid, to RP or do any other content that is not MSQ. So idk MSQ sucks yeah but look forward to the actual good stuff that came in DT and the actual stuff you will be re doing in your sub time

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

The story was objectively poorly written. Endwalker and Shadowbringers, the two expansions with the most lauded story, aren't perfect and have some pacing issues, but their reception was positive because the story was good and fulfilling despite that. Dawntrail's was an audiobook version of a 5th grade textbook chapter about Peru stretched for about 20 hours, then a remix of Shadowbringers pulled out of its butt at the last minute. Every single part of it fell flat.

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I wont argue over how the story is written, as that is up to interpretation. I've seen people like the first half, hate the second, and vice versa. The story is divided, by design, but how it connects could've been better.

The main thing I think a lot of people seem to miss is the meaning of the overall narrative, which is the antithesis of Endwalker. Endwalker was about life having no meaning, so it should end. But Dawntrail is about life having meaning because it ends.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

The story was objectively poorly written.

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I think you mean subjectively. Because this is your opinion. DT is actually getting good reviews everywhere but here. It's not as good as ShB or EW and its flaws are being rightfully criticized. I myself gave the expansion a 7/10.

But the vast majority of people still find it good. Except those of you who post on the official forums. Who will literally complain about everything. I would say most of you would be happier playing WoW, but their forums are worse than ours. One glance over there and you would think it's the worst game in the history of MMOs.

I've never seen the forums this bad. I'm only going to use it if I really need to give feedback, it's completely lost it's value as a way to discuss things.

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Originally Posted by Lium

I think you mean subjectively. Because this is your opinion. DT is actually getting good reviews everywhere but here. It's not as good as ShB or EW and its flaws are being rightfully criticized. I myself gave the expansion a 7/10.

But the vast majority of people still find it good. Except those of you who post on the official forums. Who will literally complain about everything. I would say most of you would be happier playing WoW, but their forums are worse than ours. One glance over there and you would think it's the worst game in the history of MMOs.

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Really? It is sitting at 5.3 user score on metacritic.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Really? It is sitting at 5.3 user score on metacritic.

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Yes, because user scores aren't impacted by review bombs or anything. An even then that indicates mixed and not overly negative.

Critics gave it an 81.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Yes, because user scores aren't impacted by review bombs or anything. An even then that indicates mixed and not overly negative.

Critics gave it an 81.

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And critics aren't biased to rate it more favorably to continue to receive review codes in the future?

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Originally Posted by Lium

Yes, because user scores aren't impacted by review bombs or anything. An even then that indicates mixed and not overly negative.

Critics gave it an 81.

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Imagine still taking critics serious this day and age.

To come back to the question the threat started with: Yes, there are of course positive aspects of DT that I love.
For example the encounters and dungeons are great so far, I've enjoyed most of the music (even if some tracks are repetitive and some old ones are constantly reused, which irks me a little) and the launch was really smooth. i can't wait to start with the two Ex bosses. They look really promising.

The graphic update is...mh...
Well it has it's ups and downs. Some characters look amazing now but others look kinda uncanny and I can understand the frustration some players feel because of this. Also DT brought some technical problems with it like stutters and FPS drops (especially on PC) that haven't been adressed yet.

The story and bad voice acting are things that spoil the whole thing quite a bit for me though. Getting through the MSQ was really hard and only the thought of what comes after kept me going. :/

But I try to hope for the best, I still wish the negative feedback would somehow be recognized by the devs but oh well..we'll have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Imagine still taking critics serious this day and age.

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Imagine putting any kind of stock in user scores. I mean, at all.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Imagine putting any kind of stock in user scores. I mean, at all.

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They give a better expression of how the public is receiving the game even with review bombing.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

They give a better expression of how the public is receiving the game even with review bombing.

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Any 12-year-old with an internet connection can write a "user review". That's why so many of the "reviews" have to be purged. They are either overly positive or overly negative. Designed to drive the score up or down depending on the agenda of the reviewer.

This is why I have always put little to no value in user scores for any media. They are mostly agenda-driven and spammy.

I read reviews from actual journalists, and talk to friends and co-workers whose opinions I trust. But ultimately, I make up my own mind on how I feel about a certain product.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Any 12-year-old with an internet connection can write a "user review". That's why so many of the "reviews" have to be purged. They are either overly positive or overly negative. Designed to drive the score up or down depending on the agenda of the reviewer.

This is why I have always put little to no value in user scores for any media. They are mostly agenda-driven and spammy.

I read reviews from actual journalists, and talk to friends and co-workers whose opinions I trust. But ultimately, I make up my own mind on how I feel about a certain product.

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Yeah, you should actually go read those user reviews the 5.3 is the rating after they purged nearly 1000 negative reviews

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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A lot of us have actually enjoyed it - so far. I got blindsided by IRL so I'm still not even done yet, but I've had a good time. (I'm halfway through the Zone 6 in the level 99 MSQ.)

I don't understand why everyone is hating is so much. I've liked almost everything so far. Have I loved it as much as Shadowbringers? No, because that expansions MSQ was a perfect 100 and nothing is ever going to top it. But so far DT is hovering around a 90-95 for me.

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I skipped literally every cutscene the game would allow after a certain point and I never, EVER did that before with the MSQ.

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Sorry, not sorry, but the moment someone admits they re a cutscene skipper, I immediately elect to ignore their opinion of MSQ. It's a slow build and a slow burn, and if you skipped everything past a certain point, then you lost the whole reason for slow build/slow burn.

There's definitely weak points, but there are some very strong points too, and by blanket skipping, you're throwing out the steak with the spinach.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

A lot of us have actually enjoyed it - so far. I got blindsided by IRL so I'm still not even done yet, but I've had a good time. (I'm halfway through the Zone 6 in the level 99 MSQ.)

I don't understand why everyone is hating is so much. I've liked almost everything so far. Have I loved it as much as Shadowbringers? No, because that expansions MSQ was a perfect 100 and nothing is ever going to top it. But so far DT is hovering around a 90-95 for me.

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Because you likely enjoy Wuk. She is a divisive character but is shoved in your face so much and they try and force you to like her. That it will ruin the entire experience if you don't like her. This alone will sour people to DT, before even getting to the other issues of pacing, practically ignoring other characters that were said to be getting the spotlight, plot holes, seeming retcons and so much more

Everything that isn't the story (which I had serious issues with) is unambiguously good and better than Endwalker in my eyes. Dungeons and trials are much more interesting and engaging, I'm generally happy with class changes (speaking as an Astrologian and Black Mage), and the graphics update makes a lot of older content shine - it's a subtle but significant improvement.

I mean, I could do without listening to SHINE again, but the new tracks are generally excellent as always and I will for sure be buying the soundtrack.

I'd still recommend Dawntrail, since the expansion playtime I have ahead of me (which is gameplay focused) is way, way more time than the playtime I have behind me (which is story focused).

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Because you likely enjoy Wuk. She is a divisive character but is shoved in your face so much and they try and force you to like her that it will ruin the entire experience if you don't like her. This alone will sour people to DT, before even getting to the other issues of pacing, practically ignoring other characters that were said to be getting the spotlight, plot holes, seeming retcons and so much more

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I disliked her in the beginning, same way I disliked Alphinaud in 2.x but saw him eat a massive piece of humble pie in 2.55 and get over himself. We all hated Alphinaud in ARR. Nobody really started to like him until we saw him grow up in HW.

In the case of Wuk Lamat, her character flaw was not hubris and being a smarmy little git like ARR Alphinaud, but being naive and sheltered, and unaware of her own skill set. She's willing to put in the work to understand and try to fix someone's problems, and genuinely believes she can find common ground with anyone. (After all, Gulool Ja Ja was able to do it.)

Once she realizes that's her talent, her confidence grows. She's still very much an unga bunga smash your way through problems at heart (she's a better DPS than she is a tank in trusts btw) but she's also happy to do fetch quests if it means understanding other people better. She's a younger version of the WoL.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I disliked her in the beginning, same way I disliked Alphinaud in 2.x but saw him eat a massive piece of humble pie in 2.55 and get over himself. We all hated Alphinaud in ARR. Nobody really started to like him until we saw him grow up in HW.

In the case of Wuk Lamat, her character flaw was not hubris and being a smarmy little git like ARR Alphinaud, but being naive and sheltered, and unaware of her own skill set. She's willing to put in the work to understand and try to fix someone's problems, and genuinely believes she can find common ground with anyone. (After all, Gulool Ja Ja was able to do it.)

Once she realizes that's her talent, her confidence grows. She's still very much an unga bunga smash your way through problems at heart (she's a better DPS than she is a tank in trusts btw) but she's also happy to do fetch quests if it means understanding other people better. She's a younger version of the WoL.

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Except, that naivity and so forth is never really punished. She never fails at fixing problems or really has her world view challenged. Hell one of the first possible challenges was mcguffined away by a mob attack so the giants couldn't challenge her view on being able to just work things out. Even with Bajool's father, he just magically changes his tone after a lifetime of essentially being in a cult. She has not grown like Alphinaud did. Her tradgedies have nothing to do with her failings (except getting kidnapped, but taht is glossed over so much it amounts to nothing) but the actions of others doing what they do regardless of her presence. Bakool woudl still have been and acted the way he did. Zarool would stil have done what he did. Nothing Wuk did led to any consequence from her actions.

I like the new dungeons, even though I haven't quite got a handle on them yet. The new locales look nice. Some of the new music added in this expansion is catchy. I know people say the jazz in Tuliyollal seems out of place, but I really enjoy that one.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Except, that naivity and so forth is never really punished. She never fails at fixing problems or really has her world view challenged. Hell one of the first possible challenges was mcguffined away by a mob attack so the giants couldn't challenge her view on being able to just work things out. Even with Bajool's father, he just magically changes his tone after a lifetime of essentially being in a cult. She has not grown like Alphinaud did. Her tradgedies have nothing to do with her failings (except getting kidnapped, but taht is glossed over so much it amounts to nothing) but the actions of others doing what they do regardless of her presence. Bakool woudl still have been and acted the way he did. Zarool would stil have done what he did. Nothing Wuk did led to any consequence from her actions.

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Yeah compared to Alphinaud in late ARR into HW, I think he got like one personal victory.
Even after his big failure that led to the Scions being hunted almost everything he attempted to do in Ishgard to establish peace between them and the dragons failed. Throughout the entire MSQ he tried and failed to resolve the war peacefully and even in the end of 3.0 he never really had a victory, it was all your victories.
Post Heavensward in the dragonsong war the only personal victory he got was being able to free Estinien from his possession from Nidhogg without killing him.

Compared to Wuk Lamat Alphinaud was put through a massive gauntlet of failures before he started to grow. I don't think even any of the other Scions besides like Thancred come close to how much of a struggle Alphinaud had. It's really so strange that they couldn't repeat what they did for Alphinaud with Wuk.