Delete rescue from the game.

Not to interrupt you two and your handbags-at-dawn duel you've got going on but

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Oh, and it also needs to be a fight where you need KB immunity at some point in the fight, so now that it's on CD, you get KO'd by that mechanic.

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Skill issue

never thought I'd be saying that unironically about anything

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I would LOVE to see you test this. Have someone use Rescue on you when you're in the middle of a fight at some random point so you don't know it's coming. See if you can react quick enough to use Arm's Length/Surecast to prevent the movement.

Oh, and it also needs to be a fight where you need KB immunity at some point in the fight, so now that it's on CD, you get KO'd by that mechanic.

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There is no fight in this game where you NEED KB immunity. I've already said so. The only time it would ever save me is if I was positioned incorrectly.

I have actually immuned a Rescue from a healer trying to kill me. It is 100% possible to do, the delay is long enough.


And while you are fine with removing Rescue I'm not.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Not to interrupt you two and your handbags-at-dawn duel you've got going on but



Skill issue

never thought I'd be saying that unironically about anything

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I wouldn't have worded it that way, but by all means.

If you know it's coming (eg trolling around with friends in content that is beyond trivial to you for example) it's very possible. If you see the healer quietly wobbling over to the edge or heading round opposite the group on the Suzaku donut, you've got a pretty good chance of blocking that rescue. It's not trivial by any stretch, but it's doable.

I mean, Blizzard has also been known to re-invent the wheel and swing the pendulum too far the other way as well :P I have already explained that the item is not on the majority of the time in the other game. Some Warcraft players I know of here acknowledge that Rescue / Leap of Faith can have some good niche uses and keep the option open if the players have proven to be respectful. I also only had a handful of those Neural Silencers that came from those Blingtron engineering robot daily RNG gift boxes (14% chance). Looking into Wowhead more, they made a craftable version of it called Neural Silencer Mk3 for the recent Dragonflight expansion. It uses a rare cloth material, so it may be rare enough (and expensive enough) to make us consider when is a good time to use it rather than all the time. I haven't been around for this WoW expansion, so I can't make any other personal comments for this new item other than speculation from this site. Best way I can think of to keep the item rare and expensive would be to have it use a map item drop. /looks at the Calfskin Coat and Leggings costing a million gil.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=198247/neural-silencer-mk3

Does the Arms Length and Surecast have an animation too? If so, we may have to pause our rotation if we think someone is going to troll Rescue. It's not a perfect solution either if you actually have to almost stop what you are doing out of fear for this. As for uses for Arms Length / Surecast use in other things, not much I can name for normal difficulty encounters. Pretty much just Barbarissa Trial comes to mind to make it much much easier.

Looking through on follow up posts with the Rescue delay, I do agree that the 2 second delay it has makes it much less useful than the tooltip says it is. I think I mentioned elsewhere that greatly reducing the delay and allowing the target to float to your location would help a lot. Square might say they want to avoid Rescue being use to skip jumping puzzles like that Kugane umbrella, but we already have a way skip that with another player's help. You guys probably already know, but I could mention if you want me to.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Does the Arms Length and Surecast have an animation too? If so, we may have to pause our rotation if we think someone is going to troll Rescue. It's not a perfect solution either if you actually have to almost stop what you are doing out of fear for this. As for uses for Arms Length / Surecast use in other things, not much I can name for normal difficulty encounters. Pretty much just Barbarissa Trial comes to mind to make it much much easier.

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Arm's Length and Surecast are purposefully on the oGCD.

There are several instances you can use it. Praetorium has a KB for instance.

I was thinking of more "necessary" times. Sorry I wasn't clear there. I am trying my best to work with keeping Rescue since I do remember some good uses of Leap of Faith from Warcraft. One could say I am neutral with this since it is great power given to allow someone to physically manipulate someone else's location.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I was thinking of more "necessary" times. Sorry I wasn't clear there. I am trying my best to work with keeping Rescue since I do remember some good uses of Leap of Faith from Warcraft. One could say I am neutral with this since it is great power given to allow someone to physically manipulate someone else's location.

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Again, there is no situation where it is necessary. Any and all instances of KB can be done with out using them. I've done so for all content until I learned what Surecast/Arm's Length does. All instances of KB are to move you. And I don't mean from the knock back itself.

You either move closer to the boss or you move out the knockback entirely (Landslide for instance).

I was just giving the Barbarissa example of one where you might as well Arms Length / Surecast it rather than fret about it too much.

Last I recall, it has a mech where the hair anchors you with about a 10 - 15 yalm movement allowed and a whole arena knockback happens with other projected AoEs spawning. It has the possibility of knocking you into 1 AoE, then the hair yanks you back into a 2nd one. There may be a precise spot in the danger zone to move to for getting knocked to the safe spot indirectly, but it is much easier to just pop your immunity and move to the safe spot directly.

Most other cases are what you describe. It tends to just be a knock-back or draw-in that asks you to get as close or far away as you can. Simple enough to obey and save your knock-back immunity.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I was just giving the Barbarissa example of one where you might as well Arms Length / Surecast it rather than fret about it too much.

Last I recall, it has a mech where the hair anchors you with about a 10 - 15 yalm movement allowed and a whole arena knockback happens with other projected AoEs spawning. It has the possibility of knocking you into 1 AoE, then the hair yanks you back into a 2nd one. There may be a precise spot in the danger zone to move to for getting knocked to the safe spot indirectly, but it is much easier to just pop your immunity and move to the safe spot directly.

Most other cases are what you describe. It tends to just be a knock-back or draw-in that asks you to get as close or far away as you can. Simple enough to obey and save your knock-back immunity.

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You can make the argument for Vanaspati then. Especially if you have team mates that want to stand in the same place as you instead of properly moving in a diagonal.

I've used it in an Eden raid I can't recall. I think SoS both normal and Ex I've done so.

Pretty much any time its been offered I've used it. Mostly to be lazy than actually do the mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I mean, Blizzard has also been known to re-invent the wheel and swing the pendulum too far the other way as well :P I have already explained that the item is not on the majority of the time in the other game. Some Warcraft players I know of here acknowledge that Rescue / Leap of Faith can have some good niche uses and keep the option open if the players have proven to be respectful. I also only had a handful of those Neural Silencers that came from those Blingtron engineering robot daily RNG gift boxes (14% chance). Looking into Wowhead more, they made a craftable version of it called Neural Silencer Mk3 for the recent Dragonflight expansion. It uses a rare cloth material, so it may be rare enough (and expensive enough) to make us consider when is a good time to use it rather than all the time. I haven't been around for this WoW expansion, so I can't make any other personal comments for this new item other than speculation from this site. Best way I can think of to keep the item rare and expensive would be to have it use a map item drop. /looks at the Calfskin Coat and Leggings costing a million gil.

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Just wanna say, those mats are all very easily obtainable. Wildercloth claims to be 'rare' but it's not actually that rare. In fact, I've not played in several months, and I've got this much on my main (not had professions that use it, nor Tailoring to increase chance to get it):

https://i.gyazo.com/8a88d4b7686d71bf...8f561bee03.png

Also, with the update to Dragonflight Professions, you can now get talent trees for professions, which can give passive buffs to you as you craft and gather. For example, Tailors have some that increase the chance of finding cloths on humanoids. Production type profs have stats and gear now too, which allow for things like Multicraft (make several of the item from one set of ingredients) or Resourcefulness (save a random mat while crafting), so the cloth will go even further. Alternatively, all of those listed mats would be insanely cheap on the AH, they're all stuff you'd make while starting to level Engineering (serevite bolts is the very first recipe iirc), if it were a Vanilla recipe it'd be made from Silk Cloth, Copper Rivets and idk Bronze somethings for the greased gears, all pretty easily accessible

As yes, very true for Vanaspati. Somehow I forgot that example despite it being my most common leveling roulette one for the 81 - 89 gap.

Our current 2nd Alliance Raid also has a triple knock-back you could consider to ignore. It generally asks you to get close to it and angle yourself to get knocked back to the 2nd one then angle to get knocked to the third one. Or . . . you can time Arms Length to say no to that probably once every 2 times, lol. I believe this is also the case for the 8th Pandemonium raid too. The first spot I think was typically a little off center to the right while facing North last I did it.

Anyways, back to Rescue. I was just suggesting ways to make it better and also add in a fail-safe for the rare event a PuG is abusing it too much. After all, there is only so much Arms Length can do as a 5 second buff with a 1 minute ish cooldown. Since we don't want players to just use the item all the time, the proposed item will also use a rare material so the player considers if it is worth it to pop a 4 - 50K gil item to say no to Rescue.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Just wanna say, those mats are all very easily obtainable. Wildercloth claims to be 'rare' but it's not actually that rare. In fact, I've not played in several months, and I've got this much on my main (not had professions that use it, nor Tailoring to increase chance to get it):

https://i.gyazo.com/8a88d4b7686d71bf...8f561bee03.png

Also, with the update to Dragonflight Professions, you can now get talent trees for professions, which can give passive buffs to you as you craft and gather. For example, Tailors have some that increase the chance of finding cloths on humanoids. Production type profs have stats and gear now too, which allow for things like Multicraft (make several of the item from one set of ingredients) or Resourcefulness (save a random mat while crafting), so the cloth will go even further. Alternatively, all of those listed mats would be insanely cheap on the AH, they're all stuff you'd make while starting to level Engineering (serevite bolts is the very first recipe iirc)

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I see. Have the players been a little Neural Silencer happy with using the item? All I could read recently was the players generally farming the Wildcloth scraps and converting them to higher cloth then bolts. As long as the Gold / Gil price is high enough, it may be enough to discourage players from just putting it up 24/7 and consider when they actually need it.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I see. Have the players been a little Neural Silencer happy with using the item? All I could read recently was the players generally farming the Wildcloth scraps and converting them to higher cloth then bolts. As long as the Gold / Gil price is high enough, it may be enough to discourage players from just putting it up 24/7 and consider when they actually need it.

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Literally no idea, I don't play healer as much there (tank main) but I've not noticed anyone using one. Though I agree it's likely people will be more likely using the cloth to make Vibrant Wildercloth Bolts or such to make better stuff (that vibrant type can then be used to make Chronocloth which has a CD to make, kinda like Runecloth/Arcanite back in the day)

Maybe the reason I didn't see anyone complaining about how Neural Silencer fizzled their Lifegrip is because I haven't seen as many priests around. Though I hear Evoker's new 'Rescue' ability (pick someone up, move them and yourself to specified location) can be blocked by it too. Every time I've seen THAT ability used, it's been to pull the tank to the next pack faster after a pack is cleared, and the tanks have always been like 'damn that's real good actually' because DKs and Paladins have godawful mobility

It's nice to see that the Evoker's "Rescue" has found some good uses to help the poor DK and Paladin tanks out. I only saw the Dark Legacy comic version of what could happen with the Rescue. I think I already posted it, but here it is again.

https://darklegacycomics.com/841

It also looks interesting that the cloth is made "rare" due to there being better uses out of it for gear. It's kind of looks like a similar idea may work here too as long as a rare material of sorts is needed to make it. Something like the Exciting Fiber or Leather that drops from the level 90 map dungeons. It could possibly use the slightly more common white cloth that can drop from the first map chest (before we consider a portal spawning for the dungeon) if it uses something like 5 - 10 of them.