Need advice: static imploding because of cheater.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Try it, you would make my day.

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I'm not here to entertain you. But apparently those who have a different opinion than you must not understand the nuances of a thread. So typical.

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Originally Posted by Pixieh

I'm not here to entertain you. But apparently those who have a different opinion than you must not understand the nuances of a thread. So typical.

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No. It's because of your simple absolutist surface-level arguments, not because I disagree with you. There are people who I disagree with on this topic who have written very nuanced takes on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

No. It's because of your simple absolutist surface-level arguments, not because I disagree with you. There are people who I disagree with on this topic who have written very nuanced takes on the subject.

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So I take it you are one of those who say cheating is a 'grey' area worthy to have a nuanced discussion about? It isn't. Cheating is cheating. 'But so many do it' is not a valid argument. Some of the posts here really go to lengths to downplay cheating just to save their precious mods and that is what I'm taking the most issue with. 'I don't care if it enables others to cheat as long as I get to keep my ducky slippers!' That's not okay.

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Originally Posted by Pixieh

So I take it you are one of those who say cheating is a 'grey' area worthy to have a nuanced discussion about? It isn't. Cheating is cheating. 'But so many do it' is not a valid argument. Some of the posts here really go to lengths to downplay cheating just to save their precious mods and that is what I'm taking the most issue with. 'I don't care if it enables others to cheat as long as I get to keep my ducky slippers!' That's not okay.

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Life has a lot of grey areas and I'm dam sure you don't agree with every rule/law imposed on you nor do you follow them all.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Life has a lot of grey areas and I'm dam sure you don't agree with every rule/law imposed on you nor do you follow them all.

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You are right, I don't agree with a few laws in my country but you can be darn sure I follow them. Consequences, they're a thing.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

I lead a raiding static, we are doing TOP and got to phase 3. Alt character for anonymity purposes

Recently a member streamed and showed himself using a zoomhack, so I swiftly and immediately kicked him from the static, reported him and blocked him.

Yet now after 3 days trying to find a replacement, some members of the static started arguing with me and 2 of them left.

They say that it was petty of me to eff over the progress of 6 other people just to get rid of a cheater.

They say that it's okay that he cheats because he kept to himself and never talked about it.

My other raiding friends also told me what I did was a really bad idea.

So now the group that was going so well is breaking apart and it's my fault, however I don't think I did anything wrong, cheating is forbidden by the ToS.

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if you didn't do this and someone reported him, you could've all been at risk. if your buddies don't see why this is an issue then they're not your buddies.

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Originally Posted by Pixieh

You are right, I don't agree with a few laws in my country but you can be darn sure I follow them. Consequences, they're a thing.

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No J-walking?
No Torrenting?
No Dodgy parking?
No handling a Salmon suspiciously? (Yes that's a real law in my country)
everyone breaks rules from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

No J-walking?
No Torrenting?
No Dodgy parking?
No handling a Salmon suspiciously? (Yes that's a real law in my country)
everyone breaks rules from time to time.

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Not knowingly no. I guess I'm a goodie two shoes but that's how I was raised, I pay for my movies and stream on amazon prime/Netflix, I don't drive and actually, I will get back to you on that salmon thing.
Plus I've seen Final Destination, I'm not j-walking ever.
I even pick up my dogs poop every single time!

Those who cheat though do it knowingly and just because SE doesn't have a way yet to detect it doesn't make it okay as some posters in this thread try to proclaim.
Players who cheat/mod only encourage Yoshi P. to eventually cave and use an anti-cheat guard and THEN the outrage and drama will hit new heights and people have nothing but themselves to blame.

I cleared a duty after watching a guide can anyone tell me how my clear is suddenly more "legit" than someone who used a zoomhack just because I didn't download any plugin?

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I cleared a duty after watching a guide can anyone tell me how my clear is suddenly more "legit" than someone who used a zoomhack just because I didn't download any plugin?

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You didn't break the TOS.

adjective: legit

1.
conforming to the rules; legal.
"is this car legit?"

Should have just asked him to stop continuing to use if you cared so much. Ruining friendship over a thing that’s been in the game for almost 10 years is silly when you say it out loud :p. All is far left or far right people do not matter and can preach all they want. Is your group, was it worth just not asking him to stop, regardless if he lies to you or not ? =p

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Originally Posted by Hoodcat

Should have just asked him to stop continuing to use if you cared so much. Ruining friendship over a thing that’s been in the game for almost 10 years is silly when you say it out loud :p. All is far left or far right people do not matter and can preach all they want. Is your group, was it worth just not asking him to stop, regardless if he lies to you or not ? =p

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oh okay so when UNNAMED_ was caught cheating we should have just told them to stop instead of instantly banning them and forcing them to delete their characters

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Originally Posted by Mosha

No handling a Salmon suspiciously? (Yes that's a real law in my country)

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The Salmon Act 1986 is a United Kingdom Act of Parliament which outlines legislation that covers legal and illegal matter within the salmon farming and fishing industries. Among the provisions in the Act, it makes it illegal to "handle salmon in suspicious circumstances",[1] which is defined in law as when one believes, or could reasonably believe, that salmon has been illegally fished or that salmon—that has come from an illegal source—has been received, retained, removed, or disposed of.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

he kept to himself and never talked about it.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

streamed and showed himself using a zoomhack

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??????????

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

oh okay so when UNNAMED_ was caught cheating we should have just told them to stop instead of instantly banning them and forcing them to delete their characters

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Yeah, he’s a member or is he just some random and not your friend. Are you not building a relationship with him with hours put into the game? How’s finding a rep going buddy?

Zoom cheats been here since dive bombs on Twintania, for the people that couldnt take 2 steps left and right it’s not going anywhere :p

Games still in beta.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I cleared a duty after watching a guide can anyone tell me how my clear is suddenly more "legit" than someone who used a zoomhack just because I didn't download any plugin?

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One of them gives you instructions outside the game to remember.

The other modifies your actual game and provides real-time assistance that directly affects your gameplay.

If we're going to go with the ever popular use of metaphors, the former is an instruction manual to a lego kit. The latter is someone fetching the correct pieces for you and helping you assemble the kit. The kit you agreed to assemble unassisted.

To further drive home the point:
Clearing the duty after watching a guide means you researched the duty and prepared to face what the game throws at you. You operated within the terms set by the dev team and did nothing wrong.
PvE in FFXIV is a memory game, and repetition and memorization is the intended learning method.

Clearing a duty using addons means that rather than face what the game throws at you, you make a conscious decision to avoid the challenge you are faced with, and use illegitimate tools to invalidate and bastardize it. You decided to skip parts of it and create an easy-mode version. After literally promising not to do it. That is what you agree to when you accept the terms of service.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

??????????

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The cheater probably kept it to themself as they progressed until one day they had the mindblowingly good idea to stream and either didn't take into account that it would expose them or just didn't care.

If that's not the case, I'll join you; ???????.

Prolly wanted to record mistakes, some people play with mods for so long they do not realize it isn’t apart of the game naturally. A lot of people record themselves on twitch to review mistakes

Tbh that NVIDIA record thing has become popular too

It is awesome you stood for your morals, but don't be shocked that people do not share your view especially when it throws time out the window. Statics let alone unlimite statics take time to form, and team cohesion is not something that is formed overnight. As you said you had a good thing going amd had a difficult choice to make, and you choose the option that best aligns with your own morals. Some of your members did not share the same feeling.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

oh okay so when UNNAMED_ was caught cheating we should have just told them to stop instead of instantly banning them and forcing them to delete their characters

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Yea I think so.

This game is honestly ruined by 3rd party tools at this point. Thinking of unsubbing. Any "clear" now is arbitrary to "you used a 3rd party tool". This even bleeds into me hearing a BRD play some music, anything played perfectly i automatically assume its a bot. SE - you need to draw a line against cheats, there is otherwise no point in anything until you do.

If he was openly streaming with mods, kick him.

If he was using them for personal use with no streaming or talking about them, ignore him.

Just play the game.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

They're kind of right about you ruining the progress of 6 others just to remove a cheater.

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And that cheater is ruining the accomplishment of clearing an ultimate for those who want to do it legit just to get a faster/easier clear.

Coming back to the forums and seeing this thread:

https://media.tenor.com/W_gRFhPr2UgA...-lady-gaga.gif

(*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

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Originally Posted by Alltair

And that cheater is ruining the accomplishment of clearing an ultimate for those who want to do it legit just to get a faster/easier clear.

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Zoom hacking while streaming. Ya sounds like they were trying very hard to screw their team over. Nobody who cares about their team would do something balantly idiotic.

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Originally Posted by Saranade

This game is honestly ruined by 3rd party tools at this point. Thinking of unsubbing. Any "clear" now is arbitrary to "you used a 3rd party tool". This even bleeds into me hearing a BRD play some music, anything played perfectly i automatically assume its a bot. SE - you need to draw a line against cheats, there is otherwise no point in anything until you do.

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LOL here comes another troll to throw gas on the trollbait fire that is this thread.

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Originally Posted by Alltair

And that cheater is ruining the accomplishment of clearing an ultimate for those who want to do it legit just to get a faster/easier clear.

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That is not for us or their leader to decide for them. From a social perspective it might be comprised, but not from the individual aspect. This was a choice that should have been left up to a vote. Say I
If the group was fine and was an issue for the leader ghey could have left themselves. Statics are group efforts and should allow each member to have a voice.

Making the executive decision to remove them immediately was a poor choice. Should have at a minimum given them a chance to turn them off and continue.

people forget that being a raid leader requires social skills too. you need to read the room before making judgment calls like that. at the very least consult others and make a collective decision.

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From now on always disclose that you are looking for a strict no plugin/cheating clear.

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WHY on earth should he HAVE to tell them? Its in the TOS, its in big bold letters on the Lodestone, it isnt just "dont tell me and its fine", its against the rules, its cheating...I mean its kinda the bleeding obvious.

I ask again: how can they NOT know its illegal when the publicity on this matter has been HUGE and that specific zoom hack was front and centre???

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Plugins in this game have become very normalized - especially in the raiding community.

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So I was right, in an earlier thread I was told "Its SOME people, not all", from what you are saying it appears its a lot more than that. "Everybody cheats so its fine"....no, it isnt.

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You have automarkers which automatically target players for specific mechanics, cactpot which figures out how to solve a mechanic for you and calls it out

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So, you are admitting that a large percentage of the raid community cheat to win then? Remember that thread on normal difficulty needing to be harder? "You need to git gud, we are better players than you. but yes we cheat in order to clear harder content."

I have to ask: why cant you beat it WITHOUT those plugins? Sounds to me like a skill issue.

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If you look hard enough you can scrape together a group of 8 like minded people that want to do ultimate raids without plugin cheating.

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If you cant clear that content without cheating, Ill be blunt: you arent as good as you say you are then. if you cant win without cheating, with all due respect, you dont deserve to win at all.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

If you cant clear that content without cheating, Ill be blunt: you arent as good as you say you are then. if you cant win without cheating, with all due respect, you dont deserve to win at all.

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Kicker who are you at the end of the day? They are doing their own thing, you do yours. You may feel they do not deserve it but end of the day the only one that matters if the one that got the clear. If they feel their clear is deserved then it is to them.

It's not wrong to point out that OP is wrong for immediately kicking without consulting the rest of the static. The static is a team effort, not consulting the rest of the team before taking any decision is akin to telling people "It's my way or the highway", that's not a good quality in a leader in real life, I don't see why people think it's a good quality for a leader in a game.

I feel like a lot of people are too busy parading around on their high horse pointing at the cheater to notice the 6 other people that the OP massively inconvenienced.

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Kicker who are you at the end of the day? They are doing their own thing, you do yours. You may feel they do not deserve it but end of the day the only one that matters if the one that got the clear.

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By cheating. Not on their own merits. Not by their own skill.

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If they feel their clear is deserved then it is to them.

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Im sure they are happy with their "clear", pity it wasnt on their own merits.

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I feel like a lot of people are too busy parading around on their high horse pointing at the cheater to notice the 6 other people that the OP massively inconvenienced.

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..thats on the cheater. Not on OP.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

By cheating. Not on their own merits. Not by their own skill.



Im sure they are happy with their "clear", pity it wasnt on their own merits.



..thats on the cheater. Not on OP.

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Thing is the only ones that care about the merits are the ones that opinion does not even matter to them on any level for the most part most likely. So why get so bent out of shape over a one sided beef?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Thing is the only ones that care about the merits are the ones that opinion does not even matter to them on any level for the most part most likely. So why get so bent out of shape over a one sided beef?

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It's pretty clear from their overall attitude that they aren't even a raider in the first place. Makes it extra funny.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

..thats on the cheater. Not on OP.

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The OP could've given the cheater an ultimatum "Stop using it or I kick you" then given them one last chance, or they could silently search for a replacement and kick the cheater once a new member was found. There's a lot of other options that wouldn't inconvenience the other 6 people as much as what they did.

Let's not pretend the inconvenience is not entirely on OP's leadership. The action of kicking immediately with no backup plan is one that OP is entirely responsible for.

If he wasn't your friend it's fine.
That's how things works in groups.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Kicker who are you at the end of the day? They are doing their own thing, you do yours. You may feel they do not deserve it but end of the day the only one that matters if the one that got the clear. If they feel their clear is deserved then it is to them.

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This is wrong on so many levels and I feel ashamed to be playing the same game as you and those who think like you.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

It's pretty clear from their overall attitude that they aren't even a raider in the first place. Makes it extra funny.

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Whats funny is you excusing people who cheat to win. Ill ask again, why is it you CANT clear this content without addons? Seriously...why? If you are a "raider" and a "better player" then........why do you need addons?