Variant & Criterion Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Libby9

All they had to do for these new dungeons was create a unique gearing system for them like Eureka. The most disappointing thing is that you can’t even mess around with different jobs. You’re pigeon holed to the job that you acquired savage gear with.

I had a few friends sign up just to mess around in harder 4man content and it’s not even doable without weeks of raid and/or tomestone gear. Why is that a requirement for a dungeon with no reward? A unique gear system inside the dungeon would solve this and let people explore different jobs as well.

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You can clear it with the crafted 610 gear...

I think the dungeons need gear/weapon rewards. For the most part this seems like a way to get IX/X materia with extra steps. When you can just run Adventurer in Need in roulettes or spam Troia.

Maybe they should add the Bozja/Zadnor dungeons and Critical engagements as Variant/Criterion Trials/Dungeons considering they screwed up getting people to join and you need essences while V/C dungeons give you those for free?

I see no reason to make the dungeon ilvl610 unless you can get ilvl615-ilvl620 gear on say a weekly lockout.

Once you get the Hamster you probably won't ever go back.

The hard mode rewards are quite pathetic(Picture Frame, Chair, Materia) and players will only do hard content if the reward is worth it. Anytime I can do content ranging from easy to moderate I'll do but anything more is an easy pass.

Not sure what the purpose of putting housing items in as a reward when no one can get a house?

Maybe if the glam had lvl 90 stats peeps would complain less?

I imagine this content will be required for relics just you wait.

Content that have no plans on ever doing.

You can’t clear savage dungeon in all 610, which should’ve said instead of “harder.” I thought it was obvious but my b

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Originally Posted by WalksIntoMordor

Also kind of expect/hope this will be relevant for the relic weapons.

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Not gonna happen. They already said this relic series will be quest based like anima, they aren't going to tie it to new content, that's not the point of relics.

Hello I was directed here from my topic on the subject, so I'll transfer over what I wrote:

I think its kind of cool this idea was something I posted before awhile back minus some differences, and while I definitely like the direction this is going in, but there is a few gripes I have mainly with the normal difficulty version.

The Cons:

1) I think the Monsters should be randomized, and slightly more tougher and their mechanics should be on the same speed like the harder version. Not only will this get players a bit more trained, but helps them out in the harder content.

2) While I appreciate the slightly different mechanics with the 1st boss, but I think the 1st boss in each pathway should had been different rather than the same boss. The fun factor gets hurt in this regard.

3) Since you can change jobs during the dungeon run I think this was a missed opportunity to let different jobs have the ability to open different pathways or find interesting things, it would have added a bit more replay and fun.

4) More Reward variety, I've seen the complaints on the forums here about it.

The Pros:

1) The puzzles are decent enough, Its kind of hard to do puzzles these days because of the internet but still I like it was still tried.

2) The Branching pathways to fill up that book was a nice way to get players to try different routes. There has been a lot of arguments regarding how if this was done in normal dungeons people would try to take the path of least resistance, but the rewards here negates that and everything is on even ground. I wanted something like this for a very long time, and happy Yoshida & Friends made the attempt here. I would love this actually start being done for normal dungeons in general!

I would say they should done more branching paths during the first part of the dungeon besides the last half just to make more interesting, but this is a good start.


That is all I can think of atm..I kind of wanted to share this with the JPN forum, but I'm none too confident using DeepL.

I will admit whole heartedly that I am not clever enough to remember something on another route (I Spent all day hugging walls looking for some kind of lever to stores on the map after killing all the enemies there and to get to the shaded area on route 1). Eventually I grew tired after 3 Attempts (Two were purposely saying Lightning at the door) and went to route 1 with a friend who was having the same issue as I was on route three. Neither of us knew what to do there because nothing stood out. After He logged off, I looked up a guide (Just for one and two, I didn't scroll past that) cause it was very frustrating cause we ran back and forth several times on route 1 after clearing the entire path.

It wasn't until I made a PF to get some help with three that I was told that the hints were in the pages you get after clearing a route, I remained skeptical and pressed onward, they then told me that the codes for one and two were in another route.

Needless to say I don't do the "This quest won't be logged in journal..." quests for the same reason I find these hard: Even when I notice something and write it down I don't seem to fully understand what it is the game is trying to tell me in that moment so me remembering something from another route is extremely hard for me to even accomplish.

And while I know that I could always join a party and get help, like many other people have seen and stated in this thread, they don't know the hints and wind up screwing it up, or as the same friend had told me, they always bicker about which way to go.

Eventually I got into the stores mentioned earlier after I thought about it at the same time as the person helping me mention it but yeah, I don't like this if I have to remember other routes while looking for something I wouldn't recognize blatantly.

The Bosses are also Damage Sponges solo but that's an okay price to pay for being Solo. Other than that, I like the concept and everything.

No, I have not done every route at the time of writing this for obvious reasons as I like to clear things like this route by route considering I spent a combine two hours looking for a hidden switch for the door to the position.

Despite what you might think, no this is not a troll reply I actually spent most of my day hugging walls until I doordashed and the did the PF stuff when I got back.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Once again, someone rushes through new content as fast as possible then complains there's nothing to do.

It's going to last me weeks because it's not something I expect to do daily, and certainly not in one sitting. Then it may take me even longer depending on what rewards I decide I want from it.


That question applies to any content.

Is someone only doing it for the rewards, or are they doing it because they find it fun?

I repeat content because I have fun doing it. The rewards mean little in the long run because they only have value within the game itself. When I'm not playing the game, having the reward means nothing.

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This sounds more like your lazy and disinterested.

It doesn't take long to clear most content in this game, so its funny how you downplay someone when this is MOST people.

It takes months for new things to come out, and since the game is repetitive, ofc they are going to do the new thing because ITS NEW.

Variant is extremely easy and that also made it easy to get fast guides. The difference between variant and criterion is too much though. I'm not saying I dislike hard content, I do it, but with C, C, and S, yeah I think C is too much more than V for little rewards.

People complain about the rewards. Yes, many do content just for fun but the rewards are a passive means to make the content last and the rewards aren't good enough for that. Should people get gear? No. Savage exists and nothing provides catch up until later. But materia? Something that's rather easy to get in the game? Yeah, no.

But no, I agree it won't last. I'm not going to lie and say its great enough for that. It's easy to farm tomes, but that's it. Played this game long enough to already know. Like, you can't really even get into potd 1-50! Why? No reason to go back lmao.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

I am a bit disappointed that you can't use Criterion Dungeons to gear up. Of course, a whole new set of gear would be too much to ask, however, tomestone upgrade materials and perhaps another earring so people that don't do savage for one reason or another can gear up to max ilevel without waiting for the catch up patch would have been nice.

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I think a set of Sil'dih themed accessories would have been a decent compromise. Maybe i620, but gets a stat boost so they're equivalent to i630 when in a light party.

SE demonstrating yet again they have no idea how to create midcore content, it goes from "braindead easy" to "savage equivalent" when you go from variant to criterion. Then to add salt to the wound, the main reward from it you can just buy on the market board and save yourself the trouble and effort. 33 runs for a crap mount no thanks.

And if you do savage? Your choice of materia X (easier to get elsewhere) an earring nobody will see or care about or a household furnishing that nobody will use.The thought that this is what they believe players want from a m+ equivalent system is laughable. No gearing rewards (like it matters anyway outside of w1 savage and ultimates), no alternate progression routes, sub-par rewards you can purchase on the market board instead of actually interacting with the content lmao. I guess they couldnt make the rewards good because then the great community would have a meltdown

That being said I did enjoy variant dungeons, for the two evenings they entertained me for.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You can clear it with the crafted 610 gear...

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I ... dont think so xD

The ex version is maybe doable with a full i610 group, but savage is definetely not doable with a full i610 group

I enjoyed variant for the lore, loved the music and the boss design, and love that it's accessible to any party composition, including solo.

The housing items are cute, glam is nice and minions are also very cute.

A lot of comments in this thread are ignoring the fact that Yoshida was very clear from the moment this content was mentioned that it is not a deep dungeon. Yet, for reasons I cannot fathom, that's what everyone expected?

I personally really enjoyed this new kind of content. I look forward to challenging criterion in the future.

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Originally Posted by AmamiyaSakura

A lot of comments in this thread are ignoring the fact that Yoshida was very clear from the moment this content was mentioned that it is not a deep dungeon. Yet, for reasons I cannot fathom, that's what everyone expected?

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I've learned that people on the forums and just in the community at large don't watch PLLs or pay attention to news of any kind for fear of being spoiled on it. Because had people done so, they'd have known that 6.3X will have Deep Dungeon #3 and that Variant/Criterion are completely brand new content unassociated to it in any tangible way... if they'd, you know, actually pay attention. Yet here we are.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

I ... dont think so xD

The ex version is maybe doable with a full i610 group, but savage is definetely not doable with a full i610 group

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You can absolutely clear the savage in 610 gear.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You can absolutely clear the savage in 610 gear.

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You're right. People also cleared p8s with 610 gear. That doesn't mean everyone else can, nor should be attempting at this point. Especially in ASSS. Between time limit, enrages, outgoing damage, and 1 death=wipe... anything not near 630 or BiS is borderline trolling and you'll be stressing out your healer (and annoying your party).

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Originally Posted by AstreMcClain

I will admit whole heartedly that I am not clever enough to remember something on another route (I Spent all day hugging walls looking for some kind of lever to stores on the map after killing all the enemies there and to get to the shaded area on route 1). Eventually I grew tired after 3 Attempts (Two were purposely saying Lightning at the door) and went to route 1 with a friend who was having the same issue as I was on route three. Neither of us knew what to do there because nothing stood out. After He logged off, I looked up a guide (Just for one and two, I didn't scroll past that) cause it was very frustrating cause we ran back and forth several times on route 1 after clearing the entire path.

It wasn't until I made a PF to get some help with three that I was told that the hints were in the pages you get after clearing a route, I remained skeptical and pressed onward, they then told me that the codes for one and two were in another route.

Needless to say I don't do the "This quest won't be logged in journal..." quests for the same reason I find these hard: Even when I notice something and write it down I don't seem to fully understand what it is the game is trying to tell me in that moment so me remembering something from another route is extremely hard for me to even accomplish.

And while I know that I could always join a party and get help, like many other people have seen and stated in this thread, they don't know the hints and wind up screwing it up, or as the same friend had told me, they always bicker about which way to go.

Eventually I got into the stores mentioned earlier after I thought about it at the same time as the person helping me mention it but yeah, I don't like this if I have to remember other routes while looking for something I wouldn't recognize blatantly.

The Bosses are also Damage Sponges solo but that's an okay price to pay for being Solo. Other than that, I like the concept and everything.

No, I have not done every route at the time of writing this for obvious reasons as I like to clear things like this route by route considering I spent a combine two hours looking for a hidden switch for the door to the position.

Despite what you might think, no this is not a troll reply I actually spent most of my day hugging walls until I doordashed and the did the PF stuff when I got back.

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i'm gonna be honest, I don't think you ever played a puzzle game (i'm not judging you, that's mostly the impression I getting) because that's really common in puzzle games, you are thinking as each route as a separate thing and not as a whole setup, it's not the kind of thing that you just ram down. also is new content don't be sad just because you didn't clear it all day one. it's not an competition.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

I've learned that people on the forums and just in the community at large don't watch PLLs or pay attention to news of any kind for fear of being spoiled on it. Because had people done so, they'd have known that 6.3X will have Deep Dungeon #3 and that Variant/Criterion are completely brand new content unassociated to it in any tangible way... if they'd, you know, actually pay attention. Yet here we are.

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it may be new content but comparable with content we already have it falls flat. Criterion has the same difficulty of potd +100 and the rewards for it are just poor or worse from content we have from 5 years ago. ...from a content aimed at hardcore players since Criterion has an Savage version.

it was a good addition but they could've done better

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

stuff

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I think where it stands to be a problem is that in say a puzzle platformer you might run into a puzzle you can't solve because you need something from a different area the general idea is communicated in a much clearer fashion where as here you would expect the puzzle solves to have some in dungeon/visual clues but instead they are tucked away in little notes in a journal. Even worse someone might not have the time or desire to run this more than once or twice any given day and the expectation that you remember what you've tried or haven't over the course of weeks is kind of ridiculous. You also don't know if you got the solve right until you finish clearing the entire thing so you're set to potentially be running the same instance over and over hoping you worked out the correct answer.

I imagine most people will just look up a guide cause at the end of the day ain't nobody got time for that.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

I imagine most people will just look up a guide cause at the end of the day ain't nobody got time for that.

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If people don't have time for that, this game isn't for them. All we have is time and there are groups that have already done it without looking at a guide.

Did it solo as mech pretty easy just keep cure ticking and Rampart up had no problems with it.
Also did it as 3-man DPs and also just tank and healer and also as 3 healers and 4 DPs runs.
Find pretty fast doing it as a Tank and healer over 2 DPS but 4 DPS is pretty fast over all its very balanced on DPS and speed of clears between any comp.

Rewords are meh was hoping for more long-term progression system myself.
Puzzles where lack Luster not really puzzles it was finding the hints was hoping for more mine small game style things mazes, find an object linked to a riddle. maybe a Presher plate puzzle. that also links into hint system. than just switches or kill adds in set orders.
Mechanic change switches that just changed mechanics, but not final outcome story also annoyed me this mostly with first boss only just think was added for just needed something to fill gap its nice but not important at all.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

SE demonstrating yet again they have no idea how to create midcore content

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Because the FFXIV playerbase consists of two types: those who like reading the story and those who like hardcore raiding. There’s an entire multi-billion dollar gaming industry outside of FFXIV that caters to mid-core gamers. Unless you want to kill the rat or read Nanamo story time, FFXIV doesn’t really have a purpose on the gaming market. I wish they’d just take the sub off or put out a book and call it a day.

Seven runs in and I have had quite enough of Geryon and his exploding barrels. If they're going to do this gimmick with "one boss, variable skillset" then I think they need to lean ito it more and not just make it something you see once or twice in the fight.

Perhaps there could be some kind of stacking buff for solo players that keeps track of how many times you've been through the dungeon, and makes the bosses slightly weaker? I'd like to solve it all on my own but I hope I don't reach a point where I need to trial-and-error things and do the boss again every time.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

I think where it stands to be a problem is that in say a puzzle platformer you might run into a puzzle you can't solve because you need something from a different area the general idea is communicated in a much clearer fashion where as here you would expect the puzzle solves to have some in dungeon/visual clues but instead they are tucked away in little notes in a journal. Even worse someone might not have the time or desire to run this more than once or twice any given day and the expectation that you remember what you've tried or haven't over the course of weeks is kind of ridiculous. You also don't know if you got the solve right until you finish clearing the entire thing so you're set to potentially be running the same instance over and over hoping you worked out the correct answer.

I imagine most people will just look up a guide cause at the end of the day ain't nobody got time for that.

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The content only got out this week jeez. Here, get some help.

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Originally Posted by SylvAlternate

I hate how the puzzles can be fucked up by someone else, three times now I've wasted like 20 minutes going through the left path because I need entry no.1 but DF people keep failing the puzzle for the teleporter even after I specifically ask them to not touch the sacks

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then do it solo

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Originally Posted by Listrella

then do it solo

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not even that, you can just put a pf note # and people will join and no one will disrupt you

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Seven runs in and I have had quite enough of Geryon and his exploding barrels. If they're going to do this gimmick with "one boss, variable skillset" then I think they need to lean ito it more and not just make it something you see once or twice in the fight.

Perhaps there could be some kind of stacking buff for solo players that keeps track of how many times you've been through the dungeon, and makes the bosses slightly weaker? I'd like to solve it all on my own but I hope I don't reach a point where I need to trial-and-error things and do the boss again every time.

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You shouldn't have to do that much trial and error, aside from where left / right choices are made and learning certain things to do or avoid. If you ask the right person about what's missing, they can probably give a good hint. :p As was suggested above, you can also put a step number in PF and folks should respect it.

Ive done it a few times with random DF groups, still judging it so no opinion yet.

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

The content only got out this week jeez. Here, get some help.

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It's not about FOMO it's about it being a hella tedious approach to a puzzle game but you go on and feel smug

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You can absolutely clear the savage in 610 gear.

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Considering Im very close to death on each trashmobs packs (im 630 and my heal is 625), i doubt very very much that a i610 tank+heal can get through the dungeon

As of now I think this new thing could be a dying event since the rewards really do suck but that is something that can be patched in or even rotated to keep it relevant and fresh. I did it 3 times and got my one emote ( I'm a sucker for emotes even though I'll likely never use this one ) and I'm personally done with it...but if they add to it I'll absolutely be back for more.

I guess my final verdict is...it has potential and I hope they do something with that potential.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

As of now I think this new thing could be a dying event since the rewards really do suck but that is something that can be patched in or even rotated to keep it relevant and fresh. I did it 3 times and got my one emote ( I'm a sucker for emotes even though I'll likely never use this one ) and I'm personally done with it...but if they add to it I'll absolutely be back for more.

I guess my final verdict is...it has potential and I hope they do something with that potential.

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The style of the glam reward got me thinking about map dungeons and how that gets updated every so often over the course of an expansion. It would be great if they updated these as well, so we have more variety for getting these kinds of items.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

As of now I think this new thing could be a dying event since the rewards really do suck but that is something that can be patched in or even rotated to keep it relevant and fresh. I did it 3 times and got my one emote ( I'm a sucker for emotes even though I'll likely never use this one ) and I'm personally done with it...but if they add to it I'll absolutely be back for more.

I guess my final verdict is...it has potential and I hope they do something with that potential.

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I did it once to see if I liked it then ended up buying the emote off the market board

It should 100% have given rewards to be concurrent content to savage raids so you could just do the hard 4 man content. Instead it forces you to get savage gear which is just silly. Saying "oh they told us it'd be like this" doesn't make it any better

Maybe they will add gear rewards to mirror the ‘catch up gear’ in 6.35 ala Bozjan set in 5.35? But that’s just a wild guess.

Seems to me they're pulling a "Palace of the Dead" here where the rewards are lackluster because it's more for bragging rights type stuff, like getting to Floor 200.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Seems to me they're pulling a "Palace of the Dead" here where the rewards are lackluster because it's more for bragging rights type stuff, like getting to Floor 200.

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POTD served other purposes though. It gave good exp to level alts quickly and you could actually get a decent weapon out of it at the time.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

It's not about FOMO it's about it being a hella tedious approach to a puzzle game but you go on and feel smug

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your point was mostly about time and tunnelling the content, I do consider that FOMO. feel free to think everyone is just attacking you rather then you are failing to communicate.

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

your point was mostly about time and tunnelling the content, I do consider that FOMO. feel free to think everyone is just attacking you rather then you are failing to communicate.

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Pretty sure my point was about it being obtuse in it's design to the point where it feels tedious to do it the "correct" way but you just happened to cling on to the little quip at the end.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

Pretty sure my point was about it being obtuse in it's design to the point where it feels tedious to do it the "correct" way but you just happened to cling on to the little quip at the end.

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you had two points, one is that you had to read a note "tucked away in little notes in a journal", when this only happens in on a few particular notes, #2 and #7, and sorry to break you that reading is also a required feat to solve puzzles, if you don't want to read and chooses to just ram the content, because honestly mashing into a sole route during countless our just sounds like a madmen doing, I'm sorry for you.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

all the rest of it is literally all about time, like you can't absolutely take a rest and try an different approach.

https://i.imgur.com/MejlwUb.jpeg