Please don't harass people for ignoring/disliking the story

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Yeah FFV is just a goofy game with a light hearted tone where the plot mostly exists to get you from place to place while the real focus is on the gameplay and the job system.
I was just using it as an example that an FF game doesn't always necessarily entail a deep storyline.

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FFV's humour was in-line with its game world and not composed of jarring additions like hamburgers against the backdrop of an incoming apocalypse. While others may continue to misrepresent me as they wish, the game is not better off for it. Endwalker to date has managed to reach levels of controversy that have surpassed that of Stormblood and for all the promise of 10 more years of FFXIV, never more has this game's future been this imperilled.

In any other medium, if people were literally paying to skip the majority of your story that they already paid for in the first place, you'd re-asses and wonder what you as a storyteller could do differently.

I believe post-ARR destroys player trust and their belief that the writers are capable of telling an interesting story. When you read a book or watch a film or enjoy a comic, there's always gonna be buildup, and the audience generally trusts that there'll be payoff for that buildup. When the payoff is sufficient, the reader's trust is rewarded and the reader knows "okay, I know I can trust this writer to deliver." In post-ARR's quests, there is loads and loads of boring filler text. And lots of players sit through this quite patiently, thinking "I trust the writer to deliver on this quest," but in the end the quest just amounts to "go here, grab thing. go there, kill thing." So eventually player trust in this regard falters; the player sees "I can't trust you to deliver an adequate payoff here," and the player begins simply clicking through the endless written dialogue panels for filler quests. After this is repeated 87 times, the final post-ARR cutscene happens and at last we receive the payoff for what's been slowly (and boy do I mean slowly) building up this entire time. For a lot of people, this payoff is more than adequate, and they venture into HW with high hopes. But for some, they checked out ages ago. It's just how it is. You can't blame those people for checking out; everyone admits that post-arr is like, the most boring part in the game by a mile. Even the devs agree, it's why they cut bits of it out. This idea of feeling let down by the writers extends to job quests as well, btw. For example, my first job was WHM. The WHM job quests are some of the worst in the game. When I finished those, I was reluctant to give the other job quests a fair shake, because my trust in the writing team was shaken.

This early-game issue could be remedied by simply going back and using all the skills they've picked up over time, and implementing them in the early story. Give ARR cutscenes nicer animations so they don't all look so stiff. Revoice that section, all of it, so that you cover the unvoiced sections and don't have jarring moments where suddenly everyone turns british and the player doesn't understand why. Edit out all the stupid fetch/filler quests; you're not stalling for heavensward anymore, you don't need these to take as long as they used to. And maybe give actual EXP for post-expac quests from old expansions, so people can feel some sense of progression and reward as they trudge through it, idk. The community blaming players for hating a story that doesn't even try to grip its audience early on, isn't helping. You can be a slow burn, but if you're a slow burn for 500 pages people are gonna close your book and walk away.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Yeah FFV is just a goofy game with a light hearted tone where the plot mostly exists to get you from place to place while the real focus is on the gameplay and the job system.
I was just using it as an example that an FF game doesn't always necessarily entail a deep storyline.

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That's true, it was a pretty simple game story wise, especially compared to the crazy antics of other FF games.
But i really liked the cast of characters, maybe even more than in some other games curiously.
Effortlessly badass looking character like Faris for example, she was really cool.
https://i.imgur.com/Atdl8i4.jpeg

Not gonna lie, i like Krile but would have loved having a pirate based on Faris in game as a FFV representation.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Revoice that section, all of it, so that you cover the unvoiced sections and don't have jarring moments where suddenly everyone turns british and the player doesn't understand why.

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I agree with all of your post except for this bit, I see this sentiment repeated a lot but I believe it'd be the wrong move to do this.
Regardless of how you feel about the voice acting quality it'd just be disrespectful considering the hours of work those original actors put in, especially when the experience wasn't exactly the most accommodating if their accounts are to be believed.
Is it ideal? Obviously no, but it's a part of the game and one that took a considerable amount of effort to create, so it should remain as is.

In any case, the bulk of players that sustained FFXIV's population have been disrespected enough, with those of us after a good story having been betrayed in a horrific manner in Endwalker with this catastrophic conclusion to 10 years of a story that we were all hoping would have a good conclusion. Instead we got Meteion, Hermes, and Venat shoved down our throats combined with an overstayed visit paid to the Loporrits and the Scions doing a funny every so often. Spare me the indignity.

I shouldn't have had to rewrite and offer an alternative, more satisfying conclusion to this saga myself, seeing as the MSQ was unable to. The sand in this game's hourglass is running out, slipping through numerous cracks and instead of being patched and repaired we have the same defense squad insisting that everything is fine and that those of us who can see the signs should just leave. Because goodness forbid those of us who can recognize and appreciate better storytelling be catered to as opposed to those who seemingly would be content with just about anything, which is roughly where I'd categorize Endwalker.

I don't understand the story beyond the cataclysm. I don't dislike FFXIV's story; just don't get it.....Cant dislike something you don't quite understand.

I am by no means a novelist gamer, whom reads and narratives everything. I am more of a fast skimmer. However, in most FF games, I could gauge what was going on. The game also forced me to stop skimming, due to intrigue. XIV does a poor job of grasping the gamer.

XI did a better job with the story. Exposition, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, Conclusion. I was aware of where I was in regards to each of these 5 elements 100% of the time in XI. I have no idea where I was in XIV......Only after I beat the 1st Arc, but it was still ambiguous to me.

XI did a great job using the atmosphere and character development to signal the Exposition, Climax and Conclusion. XIV's characters just ramble, and send you to fetch that quest that throw me off......."You want me to do what, at this time!?"

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

I don't understand the story beyond the cataclysm. I don't dislike FFXIV's story; just don't get it.....Cant dislike something you don't quite understand.

I am by no means a novelist gamer, whom reads and narratives everything. I am more of a fast skimmer. However, in most FF games, I could gauge what was going on. The game also forced me to stop skimming, due to intrigue. XIV does a poor job of grasping the gamer.

XI did a better job with the story. Exposition, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, Conclusion. I was aware of where I was in regards to each of these 5 elements 100% of the time in XI. I have no idea where I was in XIV......Only after I beat the 1st Arc, but it was still ambiguous to me.

XI did a great job using the atmosphere and character development to signal the Exposition, Climax and Conclusion. XIV's characters just ramble, and send you to fetch that quest that throw me off......."You want me to do what, at this time!?"

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I definitely think a weak point with XIV is how willing it is to just throw a wall of text at you and expect you to actually get anything out of it. I'm more tolerant to it now with thousands of hours into the game but back when I first started if a character's dialogue box had more than two full lines? I just checked out and hoped it wasn't too important.

http://lpix.org/1752020/03-21.jpg

Something like this would be a lot more palatable if the second sentence was a separate textbox.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

not composed of jarring additions like hamburgers .

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https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/d4/92/f...d99c39d358.jpg

Lest we forget, this dreaded Hamburger scene that is SUCH a Cardinal Sin, happened BEFORE the Final Days.
But hey, lets just continue to pretend it interrupted everything

Yes, heaven forbid the game that's rife with so many references to more than just its own predecessors decides to throw a meme or two in the lighter parts of the story. :rolleyes:

Someone should get their ass on youtube and try to comment on how horrible the story is and see how that goes. Then we might remember them.

Like clockwork the same bad faith posters continue their work of twisting my positions to make them appear more unreasonable than they truly are:

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

FFV's humour was in-line with its game world and not composed of jarring additions like hamburgers against the backdrop of an incoming apocalypse.

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For those unacquainted with individuals such as the ones on the previous pages, there are no circumstances in which they warrant a direct response. Do not reward passive aggressive and disingenuous behavior with attention unless it is to call them out on their characteristic nonsense.

If we're complaining about the game's humor I feel like it's never gotten quite as bad as it was in Stormblood.
That expansion was actually Marvel-tier with the characters' constant quipping and the Namazu are one of the worst parts of the game for me.
I'm extremely glad they dialed it back for ShB and EW.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Like clockwork the same bad faith posters continue their work of twisting my positions to make them appear more unreasonable than they truly are

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Keep in mind..... this is the response I get for once again pointing out how many times he talks about the Hamburger Scene to the point its unhealthy.
But I guess Im just unreasonable and its a Bad Faith Post. But hey, I guess it means Im not blocked or Ignored.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/d4/92/f...d99c39d358.jpg

Lest we forget, this dreaded Hamburger scene that is SUCH a Cardinal Sin, happened BEFORE the Final Days.
But hey, lets just continue to pretend it interrupted everything

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Dang Zanarkand-Ronso you're being called a bad faither... even though I at least feel you try to give people a fair shake and debate with a logically sound mind set. Also they're asking others to silence another's opinion.

Before this goes into yet another "debate" about if EW's story or about a certain event. Skip the story or not. Just don't get mad at people who got more out of why some dungeons like 5.3's or the Twinning are liked and enjoyed by those who have been following along. Or those who dipped out early and never checked back in to see if it ever improved to say it's crap. Or if you want to know why X happened the way it does don't again get mad when you don't like the explanation.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Like clockwork the same bad faith posters continue their work of twisting my positions to make them appear more unreasonable than they truly are:




For those unacquainted with individuals such as the ones on the previous pages, there are no circumstances in which they warrant a direct response. Do not reward passive aggressive and disingenuous behavior with attention unless it is to call them out on their characteristic nonsense.

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They're your biggest fans. They couldn't possibly ignore you. It seems to always be the same ones too... They must really idolize you. I'm certainly envious. I wish I could simply mutter the word Hamburger and people drop whatever they do to give me attention.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

They're your biggest fans. They couldn't possibly ignore you. It seems to always be the same ones too... They must really idolize you. I'm certainly envious. I wish I could simply mutter the word Hamburger and people drop whatever they do to give me attention.

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Its easy, just mention the Hamburger scene every chance you get to criticize EW and compare it to other games, and hilarity ensues.
Ill even be the 1st one to jump on poking fun about the Hamburger scene being mentioned..AGAIN
If you want attention Fam, its that easy:D

OP: makes controverisal posts (only 6 in total), never heard from again, and the mob is going wild. And of course it turns into another Aveyond thread.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

OP: makes controverisal posts (only 6 in total), never heard from again, and the mob is going wild. And of course it turns into another Aveyond thread.

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You dont have to like it, but Aveyond gets results.
Want your thread to thrive, he's here to bring up his favorite scene. XD

to be fair, how do they have hamburgers in medieval times

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

They're your biggest fans. They couldn't possibly ignore you. It seems to always be the same ones too... They must really idolize you. I'm certainly envious. I wish I could simply mutter the word Hamburger and people drop whatever they do to give me attention.

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If he didn't bring it up every time as like the main reason why he feels it's a tasteless slice of life section in a story where when it happens the Final Days hasn't even started. If the guy was an RPer he'd be getting flack for not being able to separate OOC knowledge with IC knowledge. Also it just has a bunch of characters they loathe in it so of course he's going to detest it. Since he does like similar scenes from other expansions. As it does happen soon after a hard battle took place. Yet because it happens in what he calls a university setting with a bunch of scholars which he loathes and contains an effeminate male that he again detests and feels that the scene is a waste when it wasn't even what was one of the reasons for the delay. Now if it had oh say a few of the male characters he likes in it, not in Sharlyean, and they were idk throwing back a bunch of beers, eating wings and some pizza he probably would like it. Heck he doesn't even gripe about all the other food scenes in the rest if 6.0 just that one.

Anyway what's your favorite burger?

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Originally Posted by Ameela

to be fair, how do they have hamburgers in medieval times

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When in doubt, it's always the allagans fault.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

to be fair, how do they have hamburgers in medieval times

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Probably about when they had functional magic, giant robots, and airships.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

to be fair, how do they have hamburgers in medieval times

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By catering to twitter players who by now are probably now knee-deep in Disney Dreamlight Valley instead of staying in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Probably about when they had functional magic, giant robots, and airships.

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I mean I was joking but I feel like it should be pointed out the real world had boats, cars and even (arguably) airplanes before hamburgers.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Anyway what's your favorite burger?

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I do love a breaded style chicken burger!, I have never been that into hamburgers personally.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

In any case, the bulk of players that sustained FFXIV's population have been disrespected enough, with those of us after a good story having been betrayed in a horrific manner in Endwalker with this catastrophic conclusion to 10 years of a story that we were all hoping would have a good conclusion. Instead we got Meteion, Hermes, and Venat shoved down our throats combined with an overstayed visit paid to the Loporrits and the Scions doing a funny every so often. Spare me the indignity.

I shouldn't have had to rewrite and offer an alternative, more satisfying conclusion to this saga myself, seeing as the MSQ was unable to. The sand in this game's hourglass is running out, slipping through numerous cracks and instead of being patched and repaired we have the same defense squad insisting that everything is fine and that those of us who can see the signs should just leave. Because goodness forbid those of us who can recognize and appreciate better storytelling be catered to as opposed to those who seemingly would be content with just about anything, which is roughly where I'd categorize Endwalker.

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I'm sorry to be so blunt, but before you attack anyone, you should know that you are projecting an image of someone who is :

1. Convinced you are right. Always.
2. Atrociously egocentric. No, your alternative is not better. YOU think it's better, it's not (and never was) the same thing. Thank you for making the effort to differentiate between the two.

And yet I like your posts. They provide an opportunity to discuss a game I love. I tend to agree with your opinions... While noticing, as time goes by, that all those who dare to oppose you are systematically labelled as "passive-aggressive"; "bad faith"; and other nice words.

But perhaps it would be good to deflate your ego a bit.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

to be fair, how do they have hamburgers in medieval times

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In a game where a country has cars and modern-day trains? Also not wondering about pizza or the fact the twins mom made lunches for their father when they were dating that could be kept cold?

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Originally Posted by Ameela

I mean I was joking but I feel like it should be pointed out the real world had boats, cars and even (arguably) airplanes before hamburgers.

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Actually the first burger was made in the 1880s.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but before you attack anyone, you should know that you are projecting an image of someone who is :

1. Convinced you are right. Always.
2. Atrociously egocentric. No, your alternative is not better. YOU think it's better, it's not (and never was) the same thing. Thank you for making the effort to differentiate between the two.

And yet I like your posts. They provide an opportunity to discuss a game I love. I tend to agree with your opinions... While noticing, as time goes by, that all those who dare to oppose you are systematically labelled as "passive-aggressive"; "bad faith"; and other nice words.

But perhaps it would be good to deflate your ego a bit.

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1. I have been right about numerous things throughout this game's lifespan and have yet to be proven wrong by history. Did you think this was my first time being the subject of this community's ire, only to be vindicated later on?

2. The version of me that exists inside their heads is not my responsibility. I have no reason to advocate for things that do not benefit or concern me in the slightest.

I call that which I see by what it is. Nothing more and nothing less. This isn't a story that will be remembered with the same fondness as that of Heavensward and Shadowbringers. Unless things start improving, it will be seen as the turning point which broke FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

I mean I was joking but I feel like it should be pointed out the real world had boats, cars and even (arguably) airplanes before hamburgers.

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Debatable. The invention of the hamburger is a little vague, but it's generally considered to be sometime in the late 1800s to the early 1900s. The Wright brothers flew their first airplane in 1903. Cars are a little harder to pin down, depending if you count steam-powered vehicles or just gasoline-powered automobiles. Boats have been around for thousands of years, which is why I didn't actually mention them in my previous post.

Of course, my real point was that it's a fantasy setting, not real-world medieval times, so our world's history is irrelevant, but.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

1. I have been right about numerous things throughout this game's lifespan and have yet to be proven wrong by history. Did you think this was my first time being the subject of this community's ire, only to be vindicated later on?

2. The version of me that exists inside their heads is not my responsibility. I have no reason to advocate for things that do not benefit or concern me in the slightest.

I call that which I see by what it is. Nothing more and nothing less. This isn't a story that will be remembered with the same fondness as that of Heavensward and Shadowbringers. Unless things start improving, it will be seen as the turning point which broke FFXIV.

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You are proving me right. No, your opinion has never been validated by the history of this game.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

By catering to twitter players who by now are probably now knee-deep in Disney Dreamlight Valley instead of staying in FFXIV.

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I guess an Advanced Scholarly Civilization shouldn't be intelligent enough to use a stovetop to Grill a slab of Meat, create Cheese that they can cut a thin slice of and add on top of the meat. As well as chop Vegis to add to that, create Ketchup or any sort of Condiments, and put the cooked meat with the mentioned above between 2 slices of Bread.
Creating what we call a Sandwich.....or whats also known as a Hamburger.

Nah, that's just Disney Magic Created by Twitter People that dont play FFXIV.
........thought I was the unreasonable one.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Actually the first burger was made in the 1880s.

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It's a heated debate in both the historical community and the culinary community since you've got to pinpoint exactly what can be constituted as a hamburger, so theoretically it can be anywhere from 1880 to 1905.
If it turns out to have been 1905 then there would have been airplanes in the world before hamburgers.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I guess an Advanced Scholarly Civilization shouldn't be intelligent enough to use a stovetop to Grill a slab of Meat, create Cheese that they can cut a thin slice of and add on top of the meat. As well as chop Vegis to add to that, create Ketchup or any sort of Condiments, and put the cooked meat with the mentioned above between 2 slices of Bread.
Creating what we call a Sandwich.....or whats also known as a Hamburger.

Nah, that's just Disney Magic Created by Twitter People that dont play FFXIV.
........thought I was the unreasonable one.

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Sure they secretly made a scifi Spacecraft that took it's first flight to the edge of the universe and back, but i draw the line at meat between buns !

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Debatable. The invention of the hamburger is a little vague, but it's generally considered to be sometime in the late 1800s to the early 1900s. The Wright brothers flew their first airplane in 1903. Cars are a little harder to pin down, depending if you count steam-powered vehicles or just gasoline-powered automobiles. Boats have been around for thousands of years, which is why I didn't actually mention them in my previous post.

Of course, my real point was that it's a fantasy setting, not real-world medieval times, so our world's history is irrelevant, but.

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The fact that it is a fantasy world means it makes even less sense since (presumably) hamburgers exist and are denominated as such because of a particular location!
There is no Hamburg in Eorzea, so where does the word hamburger come from?!

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

You are proving me right. No, your opinion has never been validated by the history of this game.

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I correctly called out the Eureka, Blue Mage, Limited Races, and Endwalker controversies. When my counsel has been heeded, the game does well. When it flies in the face of them, catastrophe has ensued.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

It's a heated debate in both the historical community and the culinary community since you've got to pinpoint exactly what can be constituted as a hamburger, so theoretically it can be anywhere from 1880 to 1905.
If it turns out to have been 1905 then there would have been airplanes in the world before hamburgers.

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True. Though you can also argue on where you want to draw the line at when modern times started as some would say nothing before the early 1900's. Anyway we probably shouldn't derail the thread more than it already is being?

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Originally Posted by Ameela

The fact that it is a fantasy world means it makes even less sense since (presumably) hamburgers exist and are denominated as such because of a particular location!
There is no Hamburg in Eorzea, so where does the word hamburger come from?!

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The game is loaded with things named after places, peoples, or historical events that never happened on Etherys. Focusing on hamburgers as if they're the only thing to do so is silly.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

1. I have been right about numerous things throughout this game's lifespan and have yet to be proven wrong by history. Did you think this was my first time being the subject of this community's ire, only to be vindicated later on?

2. The version of me that exists inside their heads is not my responsibility. I have no reason to advocate for things that do not benefit or concern me in the slightest.

I call that which I see by what it is. Nothing more and nothing less. This isn't a story that will be remembered with the same fondness as that of Heavensward and Shadowbringers. Unless things start improving, it will be seen as the turning point which broke FFXIV.

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Feel free to give examples.
Several times you claim to always be right, but then when somebody asks you to bring proof of concept and prove your claims. you go silent and disappear.
Or you indirectly just talk crap about people and how they arnt worth your time.

If your gonna bring up that the game has a lower playerbase now compared to when the expansion started...DO, DUH. It happens to EVERY game. This isn't magic proof of your claims.
Sometimes people just want to see whats new, and go. Sometimes people are interested in one thing..they get it, and go. Some people have lives outside of a video game or play other games, they dont have time or have other interests atm, they Disappear.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I correctly called out the Eureka, Blue Mage, Limited Races, and Endwalker controversies. When my counsel has been heeded, the game does well. When it flies in the face of them, catastrophe has ensued.

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LMAO the uncontrolable Ego.
You think you were the only person who talked about Eureka, bluemage and Limited races?
Those things were called out by more people then you dude. And what councel did you give that made the game better? And do you have direct proof that You were specifically listened to or are the sole reason for anything?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I correctly called out the Eureka, Blue Mage, Limited Races, and Endwalker controversies. When my counsel has been heeded, the game does well. When it flies in the face of them, catastrophe has ensued.

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You only see what suits you, and not the rest. You were right about some things; well done. A lot of us have done this, because when you know a game you are bound to be relevant on certain points. But you forget everything else. The points you were wrong about.

To give you just one example (and not to continue on a tangent), I found your comparison between the Warriors of Darkness and the Scions very bad, because it ignores all the most basic story mechanics. What next? What exactly do we conclude from this? That I'm a fool, and you're the misunderstood genius who's always right?

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

You only see what suits you, and not the rest. You were right about some things; well done. A lot of us have done this, because when you know a game you are bound to be relevant on certain points. But you forget everything else. The points you were wrong about.

To give you just one example (and not to continue on a tangent), I found your comparison between the Warriors of Darkness and the Scions very bad, because it ignores all the most basic story mechanics.

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The basic story mechanics of character arcs having a beginning, middle, and end with some compelling moments in between and holding on to that growth? Apologies but as far as I'm concerned I was right in that post as well. Bonus points for the visual diversity that party had as opposed to the Scions.