Botting on the marketboard. Impossible to sell anything.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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No, I don't even know who they are banning. But not the big bot accounts. ALL the bot accounts on Chaos and Light are still active. I know who they are and none of them are being terminated. The numbers SE publish are just random accounts (probably the obvious gathering/leveling bots). The big accounts which get reported over and over are still active. They got temporary suspensions before so only god knows why they are not being monitored. Once the suspension is over they get right back to it.

It also doesn't matter if they setup new accounts or not. They are EASY to find once they get their thing going. All SE has to do is listen to people reporting these accounts and ban them again. Over and over. They are paying staff to do this. What's the problem? And why is is hard to prove anything? Bots are bots. The are predictable af. Not going into details because of obvious reasons.

SE could even install some software on your pc that could track certain things. Basically ALL the FPS games have some form of anti-cheat software built-in to their client you have to agree with. Seriously who cares? Only cheaters care. But no, SE respects privacy of offenders more than it respecs everyone else. You are not even allowed to call out bot accounts to spread awareness so more people can report them. Or not getting a reply after you report a bot account. Rather have them tell me "sorry but your report went straight into the trashcan because we don't care" than "because of privacy we can not reply blah blah and now you will never know if you wasted your time or not". Dealing with SE if just one big frustrating ordeal.

If they are too lazy/incompetent to deal with bots just tell us. Why is this topic a taboo? We all know it's there but no one talks about it.

PS: The ONLY reason botting in pvp ever got mentioned by Yoshi-P is because big streamer accounts exposed it and basically forced Yoshi-P to respond. Since no big content creators ever craft/sell anything (because boring content) this bot problem never gets exposure.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

It also doesn't matter if they setup new accounts or not. They are EASY to find once they get their thing going. All SE has to do is listen to people reporting these accounts and ban them again. Over and over. They are paying staff to do this. What's the problem? And why is is hard to prove anything? Bots are bots. The are predictable af. Not going into details because of obvious reasons.
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Oh, so then I could just report you and get you banned. Or you could report me and get me banned. Or someone else could report us both and get us both banned. After all, a player would be reporting we're both bots and that's all SE needs for proof.

Fortunately, SE wants more than someone pointing and going "that's a bot". Why do some get banned but not others despite multiple reports? I have no idea other than SE is not finding enough evidence that it is actually a bot at work instead of a normal player.

Just because SE doesn't openly talk about what they're doing doesn't mean they are doing nothing. Those weekly reports show they are doing something, even if players would like to see even more getting done. It's a shame this is one of those areas where sharing too much information would give the bot operators help in avoiding detection. I think it would be interesting to have a little devblog or video about what they steps they take to detect bots and what criteria they use to confirm it actually is one.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Oh, so then I could just report you and get you banned. Or you could report me and get me banned. Or someone else could report us both and get us both banned. After all, a player would be reporting we're both bots and that's all SE needs for proof.

Fortunately, SE wants more than someone pointing and going "that's a bot". Why do some get banned but not others despite multiple reports? I have no idea other than SE is not finding enough evidence that it is actually a bot at work instead of a normal player.

Just because SE doesn't openly talk about what they're doing doesn't mean they are doing nothing. Those weekly reports show they are doing something, even if players would like to see even more getting done. It's a shame this is one of those areas where sharing too much information would give the bot operators help in avoiding detection. I think it would be interesting to have a little devblog or video about what they steps they take to detect bots and what criteria they use to confirm it actually is one.

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I don't think you get what I'm saying. Of course SE has to do some digging into the person being reported. Anyone would see in the blink of an eye that we are not bots. I (we) actually play the game. Nothing we do shouts bot. Comon man.

SE not finding any proof is on them. Sorry but if someone runs an account with 9 characters in 1 free company with 1 crafter and 8 mules cycling their 9 retainers and updating prices like clockwork is all the proof one needs. They don't play the game. Anyone can spot these people/patterns. The accounts active today even got multiple temp suspensions already for crying out loud. They have been active for like 6 months now after their last suspension. Apparently SE did find something to justify the temp suspensions but then suddenly stopped caring?

SE doesn't have to share anything about their methods. All they have to do is acknowledge the problem and tell us they will work harder to get it under control. Talking specifically about market board botting here. .

The reason I am frustrated is because I don't see any results. I hand over all these accounts on a silver platter and it "seems" like it's just being ignored. At least give us some feedback. Like "We have concluded our investigation and have found no violations of our ToS", or "We have concluded our investigation and found a violation of our ToS and we will take action accordingly". They don't have to go into detail about what actions are being taken of course.

What else can we do then? Just give up, find some obscure items the bots forgot to put into their rotation and sell that? Basically forfeiting the game I pay for because SE for whatever reason can't get their act together? Let these cartels just run their business and ruin the game for part of the community? Is that all there is left?

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

What else can we do then? Just give up, find some obscure items the bots forgot to put into their rotation and sell that? Basically forfeiting the game I pay for because SE for whatever reason can't get their act together? Let these cartels just run their business and ruin the game for part of the community? Is that all there is left?

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Sell direct to buyer on end game items (and sometimes bulk housing items) like I do, bypassing the marketboard. My buyers know I will quote them a fair price. They don't pay mb tax. I don't pay mb tax. I'm not playing guessing games about how fast I can get an item sold because I'm crafting exactly what the buyer wants when they want it. I'm able to use my listings to sell other items I'm also crafting or getting back from quick ventures.

Combatting bots is going to be an uphill battle when the majority of players don't feel directly impacted. They don't care who they're buying from or may even actively support the bots because they see the bots as keeping prices down.

Perhaps that's our real answer on why we don't see more being done by SE. Most players don't care enough about the problem for it to be worth the effort on SE's part when there's no RMT and fraudulent payment activity involved. Maybe if more players cared and made a stink about it, instead of the relative handful of players that feel directly impacted by the market bots, SE would do more.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Sell direct to buyer on end game items (and sometimes bulk housing items) like I do, bypassing the marketboard. My buyers know I will quote them a fair price. They don't pay mb tax. I don't pay mb tax. I'm not playing guessing games about how fast I can get an item sold because I'm crafting exactly what the buyer wants when they want it. I'm able to use my listings to sell other items I'm also crafting or getting back from quick ventures.

Combatting bots is going to be an uphill battle when the majority of players don't feel directly impacted. They don't care who they're buying from or may even actively support the bots because they see the bots as keeping prices down.

Perhaps that's our real answer on why we don't see more being done by SE. Most players don't care enough about the problem for it to be worth the effort on SE's part when there's no RMT and fraudulent payment activity involved. Maybe if more players cared and made a stink about it, instead of the relative handful of players that feel directly impacted by the market bots, SE would do more.

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I guess this is a fair assessment. SE will only do something once it effects their PR (ie. youtubers/streamers complaning). Anyway I can't be bothered building up a customer base for selling items directly to them. I already have a job and this sounds like a second one (initially). Great that it works for you but this is not for me. Shame it has to be this way.

the funny things is the bot fc that on my server is ranking number 1 on tonberry now and is only with 4 member inside with botting 24/7

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Originally Posted by x3babylemon

the funny things is the bot fc that on my server is ranking number 1 on tonberry now and is only with 4 member inside with botting 24/7

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I've had to tell friends new to the game not to take FC rankings seriously exactly because of that.

It's also part of why I'd like to see SE revamp the way company credits are generated. There's far too much emphasis on crafting/gathering and Expert Deliveries, and insufficient credits generated for playing the game in other ways.

Considering FCs are supposed to be supporting social activity, social activity should be generating the greater share of company credits instead of what's mainly solo activity. It makes no sense that completing a dungeon with 3 of my fellow FC members will generate fewer company credits than me soloing the same dungeon and turning in all the gear drops as Expert Deliveries.

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Originally Posted by x3babylemon

the funny things is the bot fc that on my server is ranking number 1 on tonberry now and is only with 4 member inside with botting 24/7

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Another sign the "SE zero tolerance anti cheat crackdown unit" is working their hardest to keep the streets clean of this filth, rofl.

necro post at this point, but this issue is still here and needs attention, SE, PLEASSSE!

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Originally Posted by Endless1X

I can't sell a single thing on the marketboard to make money for ports. Every time I try someone undercuts me within a few minutes. I doubt there are people changing 15 item's prices once every few minutes. Is there nothing that can be done about this? Maybe making it so people can only change prices once a hour/day?

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to be fair, some people have .. medical problems. Starting in March i developed Rheumetoid arthritis, but it didn't dawn on me for months. I literally thought i was leaning on my desk too much cause it started in my fingers, then my wrists... then my shoulders. Eventally one shoulder felt like it had a railroad spike just stuck in it forever. I could barely play for months. Finally saw a specialist at a arthritis center in late july. I'd spend the first half of every DAY b4 then icing my hands and wrists. Could barely hold the controller sometimes. All I really did was stand around at the bell at our FC... craft.. check my sales while i watch tv. I got a few tells askin if i was a bot lmao.... And some people literally just DO NOTHING but craft cause they like it. Just because somone checks their sales every hour doesn't mean they're a bot.

Now if they're a 90 with a lvl 2 fisher and high bot and miner and random other levels and stay in their apartment for 2 years making stuff and sellign half the marketboard (and undercut u by one gil on a schedule almost, and if you take the item down to like 30 or 40k and they delist their item forever until you go even 1k higher), while 6-8 other FC members are all lvl 25-27 with a few dungeon gear to make it look like they play while they camp random bells in the main cities for ~20 minutes then run to the FC chest to deposit gil then log out and that's all they EVER do.... ya that's a rmt bot lol. I dealt with two this past year, both got banned.

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Originally Posted by AzhreiVahlok

Just because somone checks their sales every hour doesn't mean they're a bot.

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The bots undercut every 5-15min 24/7 until their minimum is hit. It's very obvious to see who is botting.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No player is going to have that sort of control over everything in the game. A few players may be able to monopolize a certain few item on their home world/data center but most pricing is still going to be mainly influenced by supply and demand. If your seeing items being sold for roughly the same amount on multiple worlds, you're seeing the effects of world visit and data center travel on the marketboard.

If that's not what you're referring to, you should give a specific example of what you're talking about.

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This is Rubbish and you know it

when some 1 sells more then 1 human when you got the same retaner names all relms bots

the dont go down 1 gil the go down 1000 gil a pop till its dead like 3303 they wont go to 3032 they will go 2032 and down fast = idiots

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Originally Posted by PlanNeun

This is Rubbish and you know it

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Rubbish how? Care to share some specific examples?

On low pop servers crafting and auction house bots are not an issue from what I hear. BUT, on full servers they definitely are. As I gather and purchase high end items from the NPC, so there is no loss to me, when I notice a undercut bot running every 5-15 mins with random prices from 1-1000 gil; I look thought the Market for other items they are selling and drop them just below material costs. Dropped a bunch of primary/secondary crafting/gathering items today from between 300-400k all the way down to ~20-40k, and it was a break even for me. I did it 20k at a time and every ~5 mins or so the item would drop just under my price. Did this to roughly a dozen items until I noticed they just removed the items from the market board... In part, I feel like I wasted 2 hours of my time but it made me feel better, I guess.

One of the big problems with the marketboard bots is that if you aren't competing on an item that sells at a very high rate, they'll just replace the one they sold with another. For example, the new crafted DoW/M gear sells quick. The bots will likely move theirs first, and then for the next hour or so, legit players might sell theirs. Then bots make more and relist and sell first again.

But for slower selling items... it is bots first and bots only. Let's say you are selling house walls. Maybe 1 sells per day (or week). That's plenty of time for the bot to replace it.

Problem is, most of the time, it is always bots first. Especially when there are multiple bots out there.