What's even the point of doing savage?

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Uh ... did you read your own post. Like ... read it, then look at the mirror, do you see you own reflection in it?

Self-awareness is a skill worth cultivating.

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So is picking and choosing who to usher out of your life. Ignored.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

lol, okay... stay salty i guess.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Don't worry you can look at their achievements on Lodestone and see no (current) savage clears. Always the people who don't do the content who do the trolling.

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And/or post history.

Maybe one of the more infamous trolls even have screenshotted the forbidden snippets before it's purged/hidden by them, too. I remember there was one thread where the forbidden snippet was deleted but said troll screenshotted it and reposted it days after lol.

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Originally Posted by hagare

aren't you just proving their point by doing this? xD

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in a way, but at the same time the poster is going above and beyond to make egregious statements so idk

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

I don't want to trash high-enders too much, but said high-end content in XIV ranks among the absolute easiest out of nearly any other comparable game. Even the elites of this game are rather casual, considering how the devs took to the predictable "dance"-like design of fights. ... In any difficulty. It's just a cheap dopamine injection for many who either aren't interested in other games or couldn't hack it in said other games.

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I will preface this by saying I've never done Savage until this tier. But I've played this game for some years now, cleared Extremes for several expansions, cleared some Savage this tier for the first time (don't have a Static, so just did the first two and was content with that), and have raided in other MMOs besides just this one.

FFIXV's raiding is comparable to most other leading MMOs right now. It's more rigid, but also more tightly tuned because of that. That is, in WoW, you have more variable mechanics, but they tend to be less deadly. FFXIV you have to memorize and remember the order of those mechanics and execute them at a higher level.

It's different between the two, but two flavors of a similar difficulty. And considering I remember Vanilla WoW raiding, where some bosses were literal tank and spank and some class "rotations" were literally "just auto-attack" (back when bosses could only have 8 debuffs and there were no/few agro resets, so classes like Hunter couldn't throw out DoTs and couldn't use direct damage abilities, thus auto-attack), we've come a looooong way since then.

[EDIT: Hell, the term "Patchwork fight", originating as "Patchwurk", I believe, was the name of one of the big fat Undead abominations, from original Naxxaramus, I believe, which was a tank and spank fight, thus originating the term of "fight where tanks pull the boss and everyone else can stand in one place working through their target dummy static rotation because there are no/few mechanics to speak of"]

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

FFXIV have increase player because 1/ it's a free trial for like 100hours and more and 2/ people come on expansion, farm it for 3-4 weeks, and then leave for month to wait for the next expansion. Lots of people does that.
In warhammer online, you always had something to do in endgame and you never ran out of endgame content like in here. There were countless of hours to do in endgame, without any expansion. But there were no glam, so i guess nowaday people play MMO for glam :D

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And yet, FFXIV has consistently higher players than Warhammer. And if they were all free trials, they'd have shut down the game for making no profit to keep the servers running.

This game isn't Warhammer - which seems to be an ulterior motive of this thread? - and that's fine. Again, not a Savage raider here, but this is MMOs in general. New content, new level caps, new gear, rinse and repeat. MMOs have followed this same basic pattern since Everquest.

And for the record: I always have something to do in FFIXV, so...

[EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Warhammer did some neat things, but it also wasn't for everyone and it ultimately failed. There's reasons for that...]

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Regarding some of the OP's points, Final Fantasy XIV is designed around vertical gear progression - doing new content to get numerically better gear to do new content, ad infinitum. It sounds like the OP would prefer horizontal progression - succeeding at different tasks awards you gear that provides a unique advantage for the long term. While horizontal progression can done quite well MMORPGs, neither is objectively superior, and FFXIV simply adheres to the 'vertical' school of design.

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Don't forget Eureka/Bozja.

And I don't mean the Relics. I mean the Elemental+ and Judge gear.

ALSO content that isn't for everyone, but that gear is BiS for those zones. Elemental +2 is the BiS gear for Eureka itself because of the bonuses, and people do still do that content, like Baldesion Arsenal. And I THINK some of it is (or was) BiS for some BLU builds.

...which can also be considered side/horizontal content.

But I agree there's not a lot of it. One of the things I wish FFXIV had more of would be open world type content.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

in a way, but at the same time the poster is going above and beyond to make egregious statements so idk

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then they should try attacking the arguments instead of the person.
Oh who am I kidding. That'll never happen xD

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Hey all,

I started savage couple weeks ago, it's difficult but not that difficult either.

I'm actually on P3S and learn the mecha with my roster.

I wonder though, BIS taken appart, what's the point of the savage content? Just killing difficult boss?

For what? You can be full 600 ilvl (except weapon 595) only with memoquartz. What's even the point of learning and training hours just for killing a boss who gives you nothing really important.

I'm just curious, everyone seems so happy with how the actual endgame content are right now but i don't get it.

Even if you farm and you have everything BIS, in the next big patch when new ilvl release, the stuff from crafting will be 10 ilvl more than your actual BIS.

What's the point? How do you guys don't be bored of farming something that are not more useful than the other one which you don't need to farm to have it but just wait weeks and weeks...

You can't use your stuff on PVP and every roulette are sync so, your stuff means nothing, except for helping you killing the savage you already kill.

Even doing ultimate gives you nothing more except a skin... It just feel weird.

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What's the point of playing any game? We should all burn our gaming devices and go outside.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Don't forget Eureka/Bozja.

And I don't mean the Relics. I mean the Elemental+ and Judge gear.

ALSO content that isn't for everyone, but that gear is BiS for those zones. Elemental +2 is the BiS gear for Eureka itself because of the bonuses, and people do still do that content, like Baldesion Arsenal. And I THINK some of it is (or was) BiS for some BLU builds.

...which can also be considered side/horizontal content.

But I agree there's not a lot of it. One of the things I wish FFXIV had more of would be open world type content.

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Yep. I like horizontal gear progression, but one per expansion is good enough. Bozja was a good one, all gear is the same except for ones with Haste bonuses and it's a pretty sizable DPS increase. Still have my DR Savage BiS and Eureka Physeos weapons +2 BiS gear in the inventory since I still go into those from time-to-time. Casuals say it's a waste of time but where else do we get gear that never 'expires' in the game? I'll wait.

If they went too wild with horizontal our inventory would be even more nuttier, so it's a two-fold issue too. Content needs to use it, but also it needs to be justified.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I will preface this by saying I've never done Savage until this tier. But I've played this game for some years now, cleared Extremes for several expansions, cleared some Savage this tier for the first time (don't have a Static, so just did the first two and was content with that), and have raided in other MMOs besides just this one.

FFIXV's raiding is comparable to most other leading MMOs right now. It's more rigid, but also more tightly tuned because of that. That is, in WoW, you have more variable mechanics, but they tend to be less deadly. FFXIV you have to memorize and remember the order of those mechanics and execute them at a higher level.

It's different between the two, but two flavors of a similar difficulty. And considering I remember Vanilla WoW raiding, where some bosses were literal tank and spank and some class "rotations" were literally "just auto-attack" (back when bosses could only have 8 debuffs and there were no/few agro resets, so classes like Hunter couldn't throw out DoTs and couldn't use direct damage abilities, thus auto-attack), we've come a looooong way since then.

[EDIT: Hell, the term "Patchwork fight", originating as "Patchwurk", I believe, was the name of one of the big fat Undead abominations, from original Naxxaramus, I believe, which was a tank and spank fight, thus originating the term of "fight where tanks pull the boss and everyone else can stand in one place working through their target dummy static rotation because there are no/few mechanics to speak of"]



And yet, FFXIV has consistently higher players than Warhammer. And if they were all free trials, they'd have shut down the game for making no profit to keep the servers running.

This game isn't Warhammer - which seems to be an ulterior motive of this thread? - and that's fine. Again, not a Savage raider here, but this is MMOs in general. New content, new level caps, new gear, rinse and repeat. MMOs have followed this same basic pattern since Everquest.

And for the record: I always have something to do in FFIXV, so...

[EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Warhammer did some neat things, but it also wasn't for everyone and it ultimately failed. There's reasons for that...]



Don't forget Eureka/Bozja.

And I don't mean the Relics. I mean the Elemental+ and Judge gear.

ALSO content that isn't for everyone, but that gear is BiS for those zones. Elemental +2 is the BiS gear for Eureka itself because of the bonuses, and people do still do that content, like Baldesion Arsenal. And I THINK some of it is (or was) BiS for some BLU builds.

...which can also be considered side/horizontal content.

But I agree there's not a lot of it. One of the things I wish FFXIV had more of would be open world type content.

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It's "Patchwerk".

And simulationcraft still uses it as a Sim setting.

It's certainly not what you should base design around.

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Originally Posted by Imora

It's "Patchwerk".

And simulationcraft still uses it as a Sim setting.

It's certainly not what you should base design around.

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at the time we just called him "the fatty"

Raiding is a social experience to do difficult content with people you enjoy playing with.

Has been since the early days of MMOs. Making your character stronger is usually a bonus next to that.

Gear is pretty pointless in this game though, so it takes the former to a whole new level. If the social aspect doesn't interest you, there is no point in doing savage other than bragging rights.

Kupo, enjoy what you want because nothing you do in this game will have any meaningful impact on your real life kupo <3 It is just entertainment that you pay for so have fun doing whatever you wish (in good taste) ^_^ kupo <3

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Originally Posted by Imora

It's "Patchwerk".

And simulationcraft still uses it as a Sim setting.

It's certainly not what you should base design around.

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I don't disagree...but that also wasn't my point.

My point was that FFXIV Savages are not some braindead easyfest that doesn't live up to modern MMO raid standards. It's on par in difficulty with the best in the business, though it prioritizes different skills. THAT was my argument.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I don't disagree...but that also wasn't my point.

My point was that FFXIV Savages are not some braindead easyfest that doesn't live up to modern MMO raid standards. It's on par in difficulty with the best in the business, though it prioritizes different skills. THAT was my argument.

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It's also not at all fun. What's the point if it isn't fun?

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

It's also not at all fun. What's the point if it isn't fun?

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Fun is subjective. myself and many others find it fun. is that an issue?

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

It's also not at all fun. What's the point if it isn't fun?

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As noted above, fun is entirely subjective. If it weren't for Savage and Ultimate, I'd unsub within the first month or two every expansion because the casual content doesn't hold my interest long enough and the content released isn't enough to keep me occupied. Meanwhile, others never set foot into any difficult content and love the game. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

for new Glam and mounts

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Originally Posted by Toukichiful

for new Glam and mounts

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Locked behind content I can't do.

>_>

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Locked behind content I can't do.

>_>

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I'm confused here, first you say it's not fun, then you say you can't do it. What is the real deal? Why can't you do it?
All the bitterness in your previous posts now feels like "I'm mad at people who do savage cause they get something I can't get"

Some people find the challenge fun. Others do it for bragging rights.

Personally, when I tried progging a while back (I got to the deltascape 3.0 boss) I found it too stressful and stopped.

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

what's the point of the savage content? Just killing difficult boss?

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Thats the reason. Same goes for the Ultimates. Many people like that.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Locked behind content I can't do.

>_>

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You can, just most likely choose not to for a reason ranging from "it's too hard" to "I don't want to put in the effort to find a static or make my own PF groups."

At that point, don't really have a right to complain that you don't get certain things.

Fort the challenge I guess. I prog it slowly, and I can take long breaks between floors, but I'm always back at it because, let's be honest, there's not much to do at max level besides this and the incoming relic weapons.

They do savage to unlock the current new ultimate we got and older ultimates, savage mount farming, totems for weapons , books for dyed version glams etc

I heard it has something to do with loot, but that's what I've heard.

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who actually enjoys the fights, I don't really get upset about not killing the boss on the first attempt only time I'll get kinda annoyed is when people join clear group for the first kill and are stuck on the first mechanic.
But even after my weekly clear I still do the fights again for fun and to help.

So long as I am doing it with people who don't lose their shit and cause drama I enjoy it.
People kinda often talk about it tho like they don't even enjoy it and only do it for the loot.
Which begs the question of why they need the loot if they don't care about Savage.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who actually enjoys the fights,

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And why would you think like that? In the last few pages it was literally one person who trying to find any reason exist under the sun to hate on the fight while being talked down by everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

And why would you think like that? In the last few pages it was literally one person who trying to find any reason exist under the sun to hate on the fight while being talked down by everyone else.

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I wasn't being literal, I do see quite a lot of people who don't seem to enjoy it and treat it like a weekly chore.
I also get that impression sometimes the moment things aren't going perfectly in weekly reclear groups, sometimes all it takes is one wipe for people to act like their day is ruined.

It's the same when you're starting out a new fight and you're progressing, a lot of people just have very low amounts of patience and seem not to be enjoying the process at all.
Obviously I can understand if you get liars in your group who clearly have no clue what they're doing but join groups late into the fight or even clear groups, it really sucks how prevalent that is especially.
But even in groups practicing from the beginning or where people clearly aren't lying people seem to often just treat it like a hurdle they get no enjoyment out of.

Granted I am not too fond of EX1 and EX3 because of how you can just follow the group for almost all of the mechanics, and EX2 isn't exactly difficult either.
But I did EX2 quite a lot on repeat not for loot or the mount but just because I enjoyed it.
And I do the same with Savage too if I see there's people looking for help for clear or practice and don't mind chests I'll often join because I enjoy the fights.
I don't think that's very common tho.

I don't think everyone hates the fight or anything like that, but I definitely do think a lot of people approach them as a weekly chore and nothing more which to me is kinda sad.

I was doing it for mounts and the challenge but now I'm just going to wait for undersized. I can't follow the mechanics even with guides and practice so I may as well sit out and let someone competent take the member slot.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

You can, just most likely choose not to for a reason ranging from "it's too hard" to "I don't want to put in the effort to find a static or make my own PF groups."

At that point, don't really have a right to complain that you don't get certain things.

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Bold of you to assume I haven't tried those things.

Grossly misinformed, but bold.

Mount, glamour, chllenge, fun, etc etc.

For me the people I progress with rally make it or break it.
I would love to get more done with Ultimates, but that content seems to steel and steer people in worst possible way into tryhard direction. Which burns out people faster. Which nurtures dissatisfaction. And before you know it the group breaks up.

I own my shitty behavior, but this keeps happening without me saying anything overly rude.

Damn, this thread continue. I thought it would have been dead since i leave it be lol.

To be fair, i'm happy that i leaved my roster and stop doing savage. I'm full 600 (some savage stuff and token one) now on my warrior except the weapon 595.

I didn't enjoy those fight because of lots of other people. Too many people come on savage unprepare and make the group wipe.

Of course, you cannot tell the machinist who did 2.9k dps and the smn who did 3.1k dps that they need to work on their rotation.
Because if you do, you'll be banned. And how will i even know people did such dps? i'm just silly :D

Anyway, i maybe will retry some savage on the next tier. But only if something like doing the SSS dummy before entering the savage will be mandatory.

I was a warrior who did 4.8k dps on both P1S and P2S, it's not good, but at least i didn't take any mecha in the face.

I store my tank in the closed and now i up a reaper, it's fun as hell and i will be play dps from now one. There are so many dps but so less can do their rotation properly, i will try to help with that :D

Anyway, it's just a forum, why people have the need to argue in here? It's pointless, it's not gonna change peoples mind. I ask a question, people start arguing for nothing...

It's just a game ♥

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Anyway, it's just a forum, why people have the need to argue in here? It's pointless, it's not gonna change peoples mind. I ask a question, people start arguing for nothing...

It's just a game ♥

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It's a forum, it's mewant for discussions, so people discuss.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

It's a forum, it's mewant for discussions, so people discuss.

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Arguing and discussing is 2 different things.

No need to get angry at someone, or even track their record F-F-l-o-g-s. What's the point if not arguing?

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Of course, you cannot tell the machinist who did 2.9k dps and the smn who did 3.1k dps that they need to work on their rotation.
Because if you do, you'll be banned. And how will i even know people did such dps? i'm just silly :D

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Kick them then. No need to type up a storm in chat when you can just silently remove them from your party. Why do people always feel the need to make that topic some sort of public execution?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Kick them then. No need to type up a storm in chat when you can just silently remove them from your party. Why do people always feel the need to make that topic some sort of public execution?

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Because this community is great, duh. :D

From my experience starting this tier, the point is to torture yourself for hours every week in the PF in order to have a small chance at getting a dyeable skin or mount that you want. Literally spent 90 min in a p2s weekly clear party last night that didn't manage to clear. So now I get to spread the despair to a second day this week.

At this point I truly hope I don't like any of the gear in the next raid tier, because raids in this game are a miserable f'ing experience all around. After trying to do Ex3 with my FC last week and only seeing Phase 2 once I am really grateful that I don't like any of the weapon skins and will not be doing that again.

Raiding current tier in FF14 if you or anyone else makes a mistake = "Boom! The End. Start again."

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Originally Posted by Issaella

From my experience starting this tier, the point is to torture yourself for hours every week in the PF in order to have a small chance at getting a dyeable skin or mount that you want. Literally spent 90 min in a p2s weekly clear party last night that didn't manage to clear. So now I get to spread the despair to a second day this week.

At this point I truly hope I don't like any of the gear in the next raid tier, because raids in this game are a miserable f'ing experience all around. After trying to do Ex3 with my FC last week and only seeing Phase 2 once I am really grateful that I don't like any of the weapon skins and will not be doing that again.

Raiding current tier in FF14 if you or anyone else makes a mistake = "Boom! The End. Start again."

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Exactly.

Anyone who bought a stuff craft ilvl 580 can pop into P1S without even knowing how his job works. Welcome to carebearland. And don't you even dare telling them they lack dps, you'll be banned :D

You can just kick them, and restart your PF again, and again and again and again...

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Anyone who bought a stuff craft ilvl 580 can pop into P1S...

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I will not even touch a PF Sav group without a 590+ req. I'd rather wait longer and stack the deck in terms of increasing the chance of clearing. I'm good for about 5 or 6 wipes before my brain shuts off and I just start going through the motions, 8 minutes between pulls wiping on Overflow 2/3 is more than I can take for long. And lately, DPS isn't the problem, it's passing the mechanics that is the problem. Previously if you could hit Overflow 2/3 with low deaths your chance of clearing was pretty high in a 590+ gear group. Last night I spent literally the entire time wiping to Overflow 2/3 because people weren't watching their timers.

I am really sick of doing it and just want the last glam piece so I can be done and never have to slog through it again. It is literal torture for me at this point and requires a monumental effort to force myself back into the PF for another week. It leaves me frustrated/irritated every time I do it, regardless of the outcome. It's just getting my weekly clear leaves me less frustrated than not clearing.

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

You can just kick them, and restart your PF again, and again and again and again...

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My brain literally read this in the Endsinger's voice... that's super depressing...

You get PS5 trophies for it now, so that’s pretty neat.

What else is there to do in the endgame? Just maps?

And when you beat Savage, you use the gear for Ultimate (Which is currently Dragonsong's Reprise)