What is with the constant mistreatment of the Garlean story?(6.1 Patch spoilers)

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

All I said was why not play something else that has what you want. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say. And my post wasn't even addressing everyone as I made it clear at the start who I meant. No body is offended so I'm not sure how that makes sense here

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But surely you know that even if people critique certain aspects of a game, it doesnt mean they hate it as a whole right? My "offended" analogy was moreso of your comment on with how people talk about the game here etc. Comments are going to be more critical on the game here because thats mainly what these forums are for.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Okay?

Please point to exactly where in that quote I said people weren't allowed to have their own opinions?

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I never said you said that. My point is just because someone threatens to cancel there sub over something specific, it doesnt necessarily mean their other interests are secondary, they could be equal for all we know, but im just mainly confused how that has anything to do with this topic. Or this thread in particular although im not directing this at you specifically but just in general. One or two people isnt the best sample size regardless.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

So I'd have the MSQ take us to such places. Assets could be recycled to create small solo duties that involve killing a monster or solving a puzzle and walking away with some new pieces of lore, a bit of glamour, a minion or any number of other rewards.

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Curiously, patch 6.1 did not even have a solo duty for the MSQ. The only solo duty was the Garlemald role quest, but why could both not have been done? Where are all the resources disappearing off to? Surely they cannot all have been poured into Ultimate, as I understand the team behind that is so small that the person who made Chocobo Racing is part of it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I never said you said that. My point is just because someone threatens to cancel there sub over something specific, it doesnt necessarily mean their other interests are secondary, they could be equal for all we know, but im just mainly confused how that has anything to do with this topic. Or this thread in particular although im not directing this at you specifically but just in general. One or two people isnt the best sample size regardless.

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If someone threatens to end their entire sub, giving a specific factor as a reason, then that factor is pretty damn important. Even if we argue that other factors are "equal", those equal factors are apparently not enough for them to continue playing the game. I don't get how this is even a point to argue.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

but im just mainly confused how that has anything to do with this topic

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I dunno, but you deemed it important enough to sarcastic cat pic on. So, here we are.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

If someone threatens to end their entire sub, giving a specific factor as a reason, then that factor is pretty damn important. Even if we argue that other factors are "equal", those equal factors are apparently not enough for them to continue playing the game. I don't get how this is even a point to argue.



I dunno, but you deemed it important enough to sarcastic cat pic on. So, here we are.

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Ma’am….that’s my sig. Do you know what a sig is?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Curiously, patch 6.1 did not even have a solo duty for the MSQ. The only solo duty was the Garlemald role quest, but why could both not have been done? Where are all the resources disappearing off to? Surely they cannot all have been poured into Ultimate, as I understand the team behind that is so small that the person who made Chocobo Racing is part of it.

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The graphical overhaul is probably taking away a decent amount of resources. I don't necessarily mind, since it's sorely needed in many places, though I do hope the Scions can be put aside more often so that those of us who are invested in other aspects of the setting aren't stuck without much to show for it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Ma’am….that’s my sig. Do you know what a sig is?

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Now I have a big grin on my face and almost spilled my cup of tea... :p

Yeah, I'll admit that I was kind of let down by how they've handled Garlemald. It was unfortunate they they destroyed it off screen, but I was willing to forgive that if they were going to let us restore it (new crafting area anyone?). Instead they were like "Screw it, too hard. Let's go to the moon." Seriously? It seems like their development habits have permeated the storyline now.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, I'll admit that I was kind of let down by how they've handled Garlemald. It was unfortunate they they destroyed it off screen, but I was willing to forgive that if they were going to let us restore it (new crafting area anyone?). Instead they were like "Screw it, too hard. Let's go to the moon." Seriously? It seems like their development habits have permeated the storyline now.

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Speaking of which, as much as I like the Garleans...surely it, uh, makes sense to maybe think twice about sending them to the moon given what happened the last time Garleans got involved with a moon? ;)

More seriously, I'd love to see the Garleans end up creating some sort of futuristic city along the lines of Esthar from FFVIII...though the lack of an announcement for anything related to reconstruction efforts gives me pause.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Speaking of which, as much as I like the Garleans...surely it, uh, makes sense to maybe think twice about sending them to the moon given what happened the last time Garleans got involved with a moon? ;)

More seriously, I'd love to see the Garleans end up creating some sort of futuristic city along the lines of Esthar from FFVIII...though the lack of an announcement for anything related to reconstruction efforts gives me pause.

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It's not impossible for Island Sanctuary to have taken the place of a restoration for the duration of 6.X. I vaguely remember a chain of blue sidequests from Garlemald that might lead into a Crafter/Gatherer tribe for Garlemald, but the details are kind of fuzzy?

As much as I hated how they decoupled Crafters and Gatherers from having the same tribe for their quests back in Shadowbringers it would be great if it could be used to give us a reason to go back to Garlemald, so I can safely ignore whatever is up with that Cafe the Loporrits set up at the edge of the universe.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Ma’am….that’s my sig. Do you know what a sig is?

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Your sig which only appears whenever you make snarky replies to people?

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Your sig which only appears whenever you make snarky replies to people?

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Pretty sure its tied to the length of the post...i think

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Originally Posted by Nilroreo

Pretty sure its tied to the length of the post...i think

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Word counter says that post #162 had more words and characters than post #165.

And the latter is the one where it turned up.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Curiously, patch 6.1 did not even have a solo duty for the MSQ. The only solo duty was the Garlemald role quest, but why could both not have been done? Where are all the resources disappearing off to? Surely they cannot all have been poured into Ultimate, as I understand the team behind that is so small that the person who made Chocobo Racing is part of it.

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Patch feels a bit thin on the pve side, then I remembered they adjusted all of the 2.0 instances. I've long reasoned that fixing old stuff is worth doing to improve the new player experience, praetorium especially, so I'm ok with that eating some resources. By the time we reach next expansion they'll have touched up all post-2.0 stuff and added them to duty support system, and then the graphics upgrades roll out for 7.0. For the love of God somebody improve the plant resolution in Elpis lol

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Your sig which only appears whenever you make snarky replies to people?

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it’s because i alternate between posting on pc and mobile. When i’m on mobile my signature doesn’t show up unless i go into advanced settings.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

it’s because i alternate between posting on pc and mobile. When i’m on mobile my signature doesn’t show up unless i go into advanced settings.

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If you say so.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Your sig which only appears whenever you make snarky replies to people?

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Anything that's below the like-counter is a sig (or the edit message).
Can't manually add something there during a post.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It's not impossible for Island Sanctuary to have taken the place of a restoration for the duration of 6.X. I vaguely remember a chain of blue sidequests from Garlemald that might lead into a Crafter/Gatherer tribe for Garlemald, but the details are kind of fuzzy?

As much as I hated how they decoupled Crafters and Gatherers from having the same tribe for their quests back in Shadowbringers it would be great if it could be used to give us a reason to go back to Garlemald, so I can safely ignore whatever is up with that Cafe the Loporrits set up at the edge of the universe.

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The details as to what, exactly, the Island Sanctuary might involve are unfortunately very vague but I do hope it's a step in the direction of helping provide a stable food source for the displaced Garleans. Having the Garleans reclaim the lands they occupied before the horrific attempt at genocide was made upon their people would have been an interesting way to break the cycle of conflict. Though if Corvos is ever added, it seems it'll be yet another story dominated by...G'raha Tia. Alas!

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Your sig which only appears whenever you make snarky replies to people?

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If a post is edited or made from a mobile device, a forum signature doesn't necessarily show automatically. Though, honestly, I'm a little confused as to why a picture of a cute, innocent looking cat is supposedly controversial in the first place...

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Anything that's below the like-counter is a sig (or the edit message).
Can't manually add something there during a post.

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Ah. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

If a post is edited or made from a mobile device, a forum signature doesn't necessarily show automatically. Though, honestly, I'm a little confused as to why a picture of a cute, innocent looking cat is supposedly controversial in the first place...

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It isn't. I was just noting that the sig typically appears when Kizuya is being snarky.

They say it's a coincidence, because they happened to post from their computer instead of their mobile on said posts. I dropped it.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Considering the direction 6.1's MSQ went, its not surprising they're bringing that avatar into the equation. That being said, given the finale send off they gave him at the end of 6.0, it's a high chance the "I am returned" line is just a fakeout for the playerbase, and its actually just the creature itself mentioning its back in the void once again.

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That was supposed to be a fakeout? I thought it was blatantly obvious that the avatar was referring to themself returning to the Void, and not some kind of stealth comeback for Zenos

In the JP dub it's even more obvious, since the avatar and Zenos even have completely different speech patterns

Crack pot theory here. Given their renewed focus on the PvP systems. The Garleans going to the money and settling could create a sort of clan invasion scenario ala Battletech. SE could allow a player to back either. Furthermore, they might change the remaining Garleans into a confederation of clan based around the remaining legions and role within moon settlement.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, I'll admit that I was kind of let down by how they've handled Garlemald. It was unfortunate they they destroyed it off screen, but I was willing to forgive that if they were going to let us restore it (new crafting area anyone?). Instead they were like "Screw it, too hard. Let's go to the moon." Seriously? It seems like their development habits have permeated the storyline now.

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Not all of them went to the moon, just smaller part of them.

theres only so many stories there is time to tell. There are endless story threads left unexplored in the game

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Even before EW released, Yoshi-P was talking about plot threads on how Zenos became a reaper and made a pact with his voidsent, along with talking about that it was quite unique and that these plot threads would be discussed and explored in the future.

Considering the direction 6.1's MSQ went, its not surprising they're bringing that avatar into the equation. That being said, given the finale send off they gave him at the end of 6.0, it's a high chance the "I am returned" line is just a fakeout for the playerbase, and its actually just the creature itself mentioning its back in the void once again.

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Why is this MSQ though and not RPR questline filler, this has everything to do with RPRs and their job and could have easily been put there if they slotted out Zenos with some other random psycho to play the minor villain in that job quest.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Why is this MSQ though and not RPR questline filler, this has everything to do with RPRs and their job and could have easily been put there if they slotted out Zenos with some other random psycho to play the minor villain in that job quest.

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We honestly don't know if it IS MSQ stuff yet.

Elidibus/Themis was teased twice in the 6.0 MSQ questline, and then that turned out to be optional Raid content.

The conclusion of Garlemald is such a let down for me. A waste of potential, I'd say. Feels like the devs doesn't know what to do with them or doesn't know how to write engaging political story, so they choose the easy way out.

I get that to some people Garlemald isn't interesting, for now. But that's the point of developing them in future story isn't it? We only saw a glimpse oftheir civilian life, their culture, etc. What's their history pre-empire (after being driven out from corvos)? How do they survive the harsh environment without magic? Let us see more about reaper lore perhaps?

I really hope that since alphinaud and alisae are still with them, we at least will visit the garleans again in the future. Even if it's only to show what happened to the rest of the people.

And honestly, this is just me, but for a group of people with "disability" to be treated with the most unfair treatment... kinda left a sour taste in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

https://www.nhk.or.jp/anime/ff/ranking/?cat=series

Among the FFXIV characters, the only Garleans who ranked at all were Zenos and Asahi, who is a meme character in Japan. Keep in mind Minfilia, generally acknowledged as a very unpopular character, managed to rank near the very bottom.

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lmao

https://puu.sh/IVHHz/92ecf99591.png

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Originally Posted by Kozh

so they choose the easy way out...

I get that to some people Garlemald isn't interesting, for now. But that's the point of developing them in future story isn't it? We only saw a glimpse of their civilian life, their culture, etc. What's their history pre-empire (after being driven out from corvos)? How do they survive the harsh environment without magic? Let us see more about reaper lore perhaps?

I really hope that since alphinaud and alisae are still with them, we at least will visit the garleans again in the future. Even if it's only to show what happened to the rest of the people.

And honestly, this is just me, but for a group of people with "disability" to be treated with the most unfair treatment... kinda left a sour taste in my mouth.

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The more I look at it the more it does seem like they "took the easy way out" by basically nuking the nation in its entirety so there really isn't space for growth into some kind of readable conflict or story. I would not be surprised if that's the end of it and any remaining Garleans become side characters to the main cast, barring potentially zenos, which is ironic to me. I would prefer to be able to shut the guy out but I have a feeling theyre somehow going to revive him again and then force a redemption arc of some kind. The best I can personally hope for from my own preferences is more or less sidequests centered around rebuilding Garlemald because I have huge doubts they'll ever give it the Ishgard treatment, and everything else will move entirely past it and focus on the other shards.

I didn't really like Bozja's story either, but it wasn't exactly centered around Garlemald either, it was more about, iirc, some guy who was from a conquered nation who became a legatus and wants to make his own nation. So, like, rebels fighting rebels? I guess?

really everything i would've preferred to see at this point is too far gone; they simply cant do it with whats canon at the moment

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Originally Posted by Kozh

The conclusion of Garlemald is such a let down for me. A waste of potential, I'd say. Feels like the devs doesn't know what to do with them or doesn't know how to write engaging political story, so they choose the easy way out.

I get that to some people Garlemald isn't interesting, for now. But that's the point of developing them in future story isn't it? We only saw a glimpse oftheir civilian life, their culture, etc. What's their history pre-empire (after being driven out from corvos)? How do they survive the harsh environment without magic? Let us see more about reaper lore perhaps?

I really hope that since alphinaud and alisae are still with them, we at least will visit the garleans again in the future. Even if it's only to show what happened to the rest of the people.

And honestly, this is just me, but for a group of people with "disability" to be treated with the most unfair treatment... kinda left a sour taste in my mouth.

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There's a lot of intriguing Garlean lore hidden away in side content that I really would have liked to have seen shuffled over to the MSQ's. It's kind of weird that the MSQ's pushed the stereotypical caricatures of cruel and ruthless soldiers so heavily. That sort of thing worked better back in the days of ARR when every in-game nation was portrayed as flawed and yet over time many soft and heavy retcons or story resolutions led to a 'nicer' image for the major City States.

It's weird that they saw fit not to give the Garleans that same treatment until after everything had crashed and burned.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

FFXIV never had a good story. Its just people overhyping it just because stories in other MMOs are either poorly told or just never really focused on them. This includes Heavensward, and Shadowbringers, stories told in those expansions have been already explored in other single player rpgs with infinitely better characters and presentation.

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I'm sorry show me a game where the world is split into 13 pieces due to an ancient God like race trying to subvert the apocalypse and reconjoin the worlds bit by bit through calamites rejoining not just the worlds but peoples souls both wiping some memories each time to making them stronger and stronger as wanted by the mac daddy of ancients who sundered the world in the first place so that humanity would ascend past it's limitations by losing it's wings falling from grace and learning to walk, and the apocalypse being caused by one of the Gods creating a weapon of concentrated emotion whom he sent out into space to find the meaning of life and life on other worlds only to wind up with a dead space scenario where everyone is miserable and everything, even the worlds that obtain perfection, turn to dust and fall to nihilism as even the universe itself is hurtling to an inevitable heat death driving said emotional birb insane with despair to the point of becoming the stories main antagonist and driving world after world to extinction in some vain idea of mercy only to have her ass kicked by a God slaying empire destroying bad ass riding a dragon that used to be his mortal enemy through space to teach not only the bird but the other Gods that there isn't an objective meaning of life and you have to find it and you can't create paradise as paradise itself is Hell and that you must embrace suffering and turmoil and learn to overcome it without trying to do away with all of it.

Sure, some games touch on this, normally only one aspect. Not multiple. FF14 shifts entire genres from a LOTR style in Heavensward to some political theatre game of thrones in Stormblood to some world traveling ancient aliens shit in Shadowbringer and lastly dead space meets magic and ancient aliens in Endwalker. The writing may not be perfect, but those who say the story isn't good either fall into cutscene skippers who weren't paying attention, those with the literary ability of someone who binges marvel movies or someone with the intelligence level equal to a moogle.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Between the whole place getting destroyed off screen, Regula getting shafted again and again, especially with us not even being able to mention him to Varis doing the alliance meeting and him not getting any sort of revels whatsoever in the weapons questline. Bozja being a cliffhanger that amounts to nothing and kills off its most prominent character off screen, to now the second legion being confirmed as destroyed so that whole Corvos plot line is gone, Nerva being built up all throughout ShB only to just end up as a blasphemy fodder without even his own model and used as a reskinned boss. To now the garleans just saying bye and going to the moon. Is this the superb writing everyone talks about? Building up plot points only for them to all be destroyed off screen or amounted to nothing more than fodder?

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Bozja writer died or something before it finished so SE just dropped it.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

I'm sorry show me a game where the world is split into 13 pieces due to an ancient God like race trying to subvert the apocalypse and reconjoin the worlds bit by bit through calamites rejoining not just the worlds but peoples souls both wiping some memories each time to making them stronger and stronger as wanted by the mac daddy of ancients who sundered the world in the first place so that humanity would ascend past it's limitations by losing it's wings falling from grace and learning to walk, and the apocalypse being caused by one of the Gods creating a weapon of concentrated emotion whom he sent out into space to find the meaning of life and life on other worlds only to wind up with a dead space scenario where everyone is miserable and everything, even the worlds that obtain perfection, turn to dust and fall to nihilism as even the universe itself is hurtling to an inevitable heat death driving said emotional birb insane with despair to the point of becoming the stories main antagonist and driving world after world to extinction in some vain idea of mercy only to have her ass kicked by a God slaying empire destroying bad ass riding a dragon that used to be his mortal enemy through space to teach not only the bird but the other Gods that there isn't an objective meaning of life and you have to find it and you can't create paradise as paradise itself is Hell and that you must embrace suffering and turmoil and learn to overcome it without trying to do away with all of it.

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Those are certainly events which happens in FFXIV's story, but what about it makes it good? If anything your poor summary makes it feel it finally reached Kingdom Hearts levels of overly complicated.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

Bozja writer died or something before it finished so SE just dropped it.

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... Yasumi Matsuno is still alive and was the one who wrote the field reports which concluded the story.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's a lot of intriguing Garlean lore hidden away in side content that I really would have liked to have seen shuffled over to the MSQ's. It's kind of weird that the MSQ's pushed the stereotypical caricatures of cruel and ruthless soldiers so heavily. That sort of thing worked better back in the days of ARR when every in-game nation was portrayed as flawed and yet over time many soft and heavy retcons or story resolutions led to a 'nicer' image for the major City States.

It's weird that they saw fit not to give the Garleans that same treatment until after everything had crashed and burned.

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The Garleans come from a continent we barely have any access to up until now and have been one of the primary enemies in the game for 12 years, driving the plot by being the bad guys and wrecking stuff.

The three city-states are located where the game takes place, are not our enemies, and are the people we work for so it makes sense for their image to be smoothed out before the Garleans'. Especially since the story started to stop with internal politics and squabbling in Eorzea and concentrated on the bigger threat of Garlemald and the cosmic threat of the Ascians.

It also makes sense that now that the Garleans are no longer our enemy, their own image will be rehabilitated over the course of the upcoming story.


I'm not sure why this is a mystery to you.

It's not the writing itself, it's the pacing and structure. And tbh, I don't think that will ever change since it seems this is the way Yoshi want FF14 to be. Even if you increase the quality of the writing by a factor of 10, I don't believe you will have a lot of room for noticeable effect.

Here is what I meant specifically:

- In most other MMO, the launch of an expack pretty much only set the foundation that we would then see developed over the next 2-3 years. Hitting max level usually means you're only about half way through the story. This give the build up more room and time for exposition, and you see a much more gradual build up for the climax.

- In FF14, the story is basically done and wrapped at launch. And we spend the rest of the expansion's life time on ... after story content because the story already reached and passed its climax. By itself that's not a bad thing, the problem is ... jamming the whole main story in 10 levels is just not enough.

This has been an issue since HW, and I would say 6.0 became the worst. This is why almost every major story point and encounter feels very underwhelming consider their build up. (Galmerald, Anima, Zodiak, and even Endwalker). In my opinion, the story would be much more flesh out if it was like this:

- 6.0 should stop at Zodiak, with that encounter given the proper respect it deserves, with a lot more exposition on the Galmerald expedition.
- 6.2 is Elpis and the time travelling stuffs, give it more time to develop the history of the ancient.
- 6.4 is Ultimate Thule (with a much more expansive prepration for the journey, instead of a series of busy body quests) and the grand finale.

You can see this structure problem persist with how the story is distributed as well, or rather, what's being used to distributed the story. Usually Raid encounters are used as the main climax for story milestone, but FF14 pretty much relegate it to after story and side content and almost entirely disconnected from the main narrative.


Again, I don't think FF14 will ever change this structure, so the story, whether what you think about it, is what you will get every time. It's not a question of will, but mean. No writer can make what we see here significantly better if they only 10 level of leveling content to climax the story. In the end it's a matter of preference really. Say you have a novel that you would love to see an animate adaptions, there are 3 choices:

- Movie theater.
- Several OVAs.
- 2 seasons of TV series.

Each will have its strength and weakness. I think FF14 goes with the Movie/OVA format, and if you are someone who prefer the longer developing time of a TV series, Movie/OVA will never be enough irregardless of how good it is done.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

It's not the writing itself, it's the pacing and structure.

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I'd say it's a bit of both. Some of the writing is pretty solid and interesting, though the game seems terrified of the idea of actually following through with a grand conclusion that isn't just another flashy fight with no actual stakes or lasting consequences to speak of. For as much as the game seems to want to become more of a single player experience and traditional JRPG, if we look at the other titles in the franchise there's a lot more going on in general. Especially in the more 'recent' titles that were able to have fun with cinematics.

I still remember all the cool cutscenes in FFIX where Eidolons were summoned with dramatic consequences. That we had more effort put into a cutscene of G'raha eating a burger instead of an Echo flashback showing the devastating and horrific effects of Hydaelyn's genocidal campaign as well as the clash between Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

I just wish the game was more open and honest. Back in the days of ARR it certainly did not have any signs of ending up as a glorified visual novel with a heavy focus on slice of life and 'comedy'. I remember Koji Fox explaining that stuff like Hildibrand was deliberately locked away in a side quest because it was so divisive and not everybody's cup of tea/style of humour.

How times change, I guess...

I'm pretty excited about going to explore the Void, though so many plot points have been suddenly dropped or hastily wrapped up that I'm reluctant to get my hopes up too much.

Look at Garlemald...and then look at what happened to Cardassia.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I just wish the game was more open and honest. Back in the days of ARR it certainly did not have any signs of ending up as a glorified visual novel with a heavy focus on slice of life and 'comedy'. I remember Koji Fox explaining that stuff like Hildibrand was deliberately locked away in a side quest because it was so divisive and not everybody's cup of tea/style of humour.

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Every story needs specific points to have a breather, especially with how the MSQ in the X.0 expansions is getting longer. It's called "comedic relief" for a reason. At least to me, the rare bits of levity in between everything bad happening isn't detracting from the story. It's better than just one long 50 hour slog of bad things happening.

It's nothing new either. We've had comedic relief bits in ARR too. Right before half of the Scions were killed and the story got serious we had "Tidus" and had to rescue goblin cheese from a dragon. This is an MMO and the story is meant to be easy to get into and enjoy for the most amount of people. I wouldn't call the few bits of cutscenes and interactions between characters in between arcs "a glorified visual novel with a heavy focus on slice of life and 'comedy'" either. It's just storytelling. And by most metrics, the storytelling has gotten better since ARR when we were treated with mostly silent cutscenes with stilted dialogue and cardboard characters telling us to go to point A to kill X amount of rats until an Ascian showed up and talked about how evil he is and about how he's going to do evil things with no explanation except that we're not worthy of an explanation.

You're really scratching the bottom of the barrel if you're comparing the MSQ to Hildebrand and I'm not sure what specific moment you're trying to compare it to. They're completely different. There's no over-the-top antics and slapstick humor in the MSQ. With as many legitimate issues there are in the writing, there's better and more important things to criticize other than "I'm upset that something funny happened in my dark story". I'm gonna need a source on that Koji quote too because all I could find was him mentioning Oda saying that a lot that happens in Hildebrand doesn't make sense and it's about as canon and real as you want it to be. Nothing about it being specifically relegated to side content because of "divisive humor". It's always been side content, all the way back to 1.0.


I would have to agree that the main issue is the pacing and structure. They started the game without knowing where it's going to end up, started coming up with ideas midway through the 2nd expansion, and then followed that up with a poorly paced expansion that spent most of it's time thousands of malms away from anything we knew about until that point, and then revealed way too much in the follow-up expansion to the point where they ruined the pacing of the story and decided to end it quickly in one patch story rather than have it finish in X.3 like the other expansions. That isn't to say that the writing doesn't have problems either. In Endwalker it feels like they rushed a lot of revelations, didn't give them time to sink in, and didn't properly explain a lot of stuff very well. It's like they knew how it was going to go and what the characters were thinking, but failed to translate that into the game, to the point where people are still fighting over it to this day. If they had paced the game better and gave more thought earlier on in how we were going to go through the story instead of one expansion at a time, I think the writing overall would have been better.

They've definitely forgotten how to use comic relief effectively. What should ideally be used like a pinch of sugar in a spicy dish to balance the flavors has instead become them dumping an entire bottle of honey into it because they've somehow rationalized that some = good, so more = better.

I was verily disappointed by how they treated Nerva in 6.1. The devs could’ve at least given him an actual HUMAN model like all the other blasphemies…

He could’ve been a potential ally.

I assume that his father Titus also shared the same fate since he’s nowhere to be found. Lucia did say that he and his son Nerva took advantage of the rumours that Zenos was being possessed by a demon. Who was Elidibus at that time. So he didn’t die in the War of Successions and might be in hiding after the civil war.

I also wonder what happened to Varis’s bodyguards, Annia & Julia.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Every story needs specific points to have a breather, especially with how the MSQ in the X.0 expansions is getting longer. It's called "comedic relief" for a reason. At least to me, the rare bits of levity in between everything bad happening isn't detracting from the story. It's better than just one long 50 hour slog of bad things happening.

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That's one of my main complaints with Heavensward and while I thought it was well written and good storytelling, I hold it in lower regard than others do. That expansion managed to make even moogles feel heavy. People give Stormblood a lot of grief, but I thought the balance there was much better and they did successfully lighten things up instead of it just being one bad thing after another like Heavensward. I'm eager to see how XVI turns out but I do have concerns since it's the HW story team working on it.

Despite the Nerva issue, I’m actually looking forward to what the devs have in store. I’m sure they’ll redeem Garlemald somehow.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

It's a petty and small detail but it's kind of funny that every NPC just unanimously decided to all call us Adventurer and no longer the WoL. Did they all pass memos to each other? Also, the 'adventure!' music triumphantly blaring whenever the word 'adventure!' comes up.

At this point I'd like to just jump into the Void so all the cheese will melt off of me. Maybe walk in on Diabolos reading a newspaper on his couch, only for him to see us and immediately sweat bullets.

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Good point - and there doesn't seem to be any real reason for it either. I mean, I guess one might argue that some decided the title was defunct with Hydaelyn no longer around, or that the change was our character's preference, but still..... seems a little odd for everyone to stop referring to the WoL AS the WoL considering that, like it or not, being the WoL kinda defined our character.