World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

shocking, 'nother Skiros troll thread.

I declare this thread to now be about Pie!

https://images-gmi-pmc.edge-generalm...2b72be3afe.jpg

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Hnngg. I've never, ever had pie. Not a dessert that's prevalent at all in my country. Feeling like I'm missing out...

oh someone with a 2021 join date saying the sky is falling sure thing. lol

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Originally Posted by Gojin

oh someone with a 2021 join date saying the sky is falling sure thing. lol

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I think it's hard to assume those anymore since people here love using alts :)

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Originally Posted by Skiros

World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

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This tells me you've never played World of Warcraft.

How does this person make such blatant bait posts and everytime his threads reach 10+ pages? How can a forum be this easily trolled?

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

How does this person make such blatant bait posts and everytime his threads reach 10+ pages? How can a forum be this easily trolled?

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A lack of internet awareness, I'd imagine.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

A lack of internet awareness, I'd imagine.

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I think people vastly underestimate that everyone is just as bored as the OP, I mean how many times can regulars here really "take the bait" when in reality we just have close to 0 to talk about without new content rn?

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Originally Posted by Padudu

I think people vastly underestimate that everyone is just as bored as the OP, I mean how many times can regulars here really "take the bait" when in reality we just have close to 0 to talk about without new content rn?

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I'm gonna stick with a lack of internet awareness.

I mean I see how Skiros is trolling but I've only been looking at the forums since a month ago or so and I don't make it the habit to spend so much of my time on here.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm gonna stick with a lack of internet awareness.

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ngl I think I just have more faith in people than that, I mean dude gets called out for trolling like 25 times a day you'd have to either be on the forums for the first time or be blind af to not see that

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Hnngg. I've never, ever had pie. Not a dessert that's prevalent at all in my country. Feeling like I'm missing out...

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What dessert is prevalent in your country? I'm always looking to try something new. :)

You are missing out. Pie is delicious and there are hundreds (thousands?) of different recipes!

As a wow refugee and a casual player who wouldn't touch mythic plus, normal raiding or higher, rated pvp, and even just normal mythic dungeons i'm as casual as it gets and let me tell you why I left. It wasn't the difficulty or easyness of the classes. It definatly wasn't challenging content there was more of that than the rest of the game. No I left because world content was neglected, outside of the quests they gave you that was it unless you wanted to grind world dailies with little to no reward. It was just grind upon grind upon grind for what? To do it all again in the next patch up until the next expansion and repeat? PvP balance was awful, world content basically didn't exist, there was nothing fun about the game at all. The real thing that kept me there was the copium and lore which they destroyed the lore. So you have never touched end game WoW or you're trolling and seeing the other comments in this thread you're clearly trolling.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

People are allowed to have different means of enjoyment.

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I never said otherwise. I wholeheartedly support your right to set whatever restrictions you want on your party finder listing, in your FC, or in your static. I'm talking about players on these forums who expect randos in the roulette to use their "entire kit."

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Honestly, you're the one who is acting like an elitist.

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I'm not sure that you're using the word, "honest," in the manner which it was intended.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I don't expect perfection. You seem to expect everyone to conform to your way of thought and play.

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No. I expect everyone to be tolerant of others in the roulette who don't want to go as hard in on a video game as they do.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

To say that I don't understand the purpose of the game is ridiculous. The game doesn't have 1 singular purpose, but I suppose you think that your purpose for playing is the only purpose.

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Maybe I could have said that better. You're right that the game serves a different purpose for everyone. What I meant to say is that you don't understand the purpose of the game for most players. For most players, a game is not a proxy for real life work. I know that many players, especially the hardcore ones that you find on the forums, create daily/weekly to-do lists with the intent to churn through them as quickly as possible. Most players outside of this little bubble don't think that way. If your goal when playing this game is to be as efficient as possible in rushing through content, then you're going to set yourself up for disappointment amongst the general population.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

You tell me not to put words in your mouth while stating that I am trying to force anyone into anything. I have not said once for SE to impliment anything, change anything, do anything. I don't cry when people don't want to play "my way".

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Please show me where I specifically called you out on that. That statement was a clarification of my position in the context of this thread's title, "World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog."

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I was simply stating that different people have different concepts of what is fun and enjoyable.

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And I've agreed with you on that time and again.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

No I left because world content was neglected, outside of the quests they gave you that was it unless you wanted to grind world dailies with little to no reward. It was just grind upon grind upon grind for what? To do it all again in the next patch up until the next expansion and repeat? PvP balance was awful, world content basically didn't exist, there was nothing fun about the game at all.

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This is basically FFXIV'x endgame too.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

This is basically FFXIV'x endgame too.

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The two really aren't comparable. There's not as much open world content in FF XIV as I would like, but it is still content that I willingly do. In WoW...it feels more like a job than anything else.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

This is basically FFXIV'x endgame too.

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Except for the part about grind upon grind upon grind. There's a completely optional FATE grind to collect gemstones for mounts, but there's an end in sight to it. The game doesn't maliciously timegate me in my gemstone acquisition. I could buy out all the vendors in a couple of weeks tops, and even then, if I wanted to, I could continue to grind gemstones to buy mats that I can dump onto the market to make bank. Similarly, there's a completely optional Bozjan storyline that I could participate in, but nothing is forcing me to do it. It's great for leveling other jobs, and the critical engagements can be pretty fun, but nothing is forcing me to do it. I can completely ignore Bozja and still deck myself out in 580+ gear. If I choose to do Bozja, however, I'm rewarded with lots of levels and random lootboxes.

WoW, like FFXIV, presented us with an optional anima grind at the beginning of Shadowlands. The difference is that after months of concerted grinding, I had one of my five covenant buildings complete while the others remained in early development. What was the reward for that? Honestly, nothing. It's not like anyone else could see my buildings, and the rewards for completing the buildings were lackluster at best. I hear that in subsequent patches they improved the anima grind, but I didn't stick around long enough to find out. On top of the optional anima grind, we had to repeatedly run Torghast to grind out the Soul Ash with which to purchase our legendary items. On top of that, we had to do the Maw dailies to grind out the stygia in order to purchase upgrades that made Torghast climbs faster. All in all, it was a disheartening chorefest. FFXIV doesn't present you with the level of grindception that WoW does.

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Originally Posted by Snowdove

This tells me you've never played World of Warcraft.

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This tells me the know exactly who WoW devs caters too (pvp and raiding hardcore crowds) and they know this , resulting in :

you got baited as was intended

-50 DKP

more dots!

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I can completely ignore Bozja and still deck myself out in 580+ gear.

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Yeah... Me too.

They honestly can't do any worse with MS than they did with Activision at the helm especially since Acti did all the bad ideas MS could have tried and failed but I'm gonna be honest MS seems more interested in them just making good games they already have Phil showing desire to resurrect the Skylander series wether folks like it or not that was once their bread and butter at a time when the toys to life bubble was big. Here's hoping they keep Crash and Spyro around at least.

Does the cookbook has any egg recipe?

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

Square Enix is on the same trajectory as Blizzard. The sad thing is that the playerbase refuses to see this because of all the blind hype, and this same thing happened in WoW - people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

I believe most midcore players will be happy with healers that can do more than two button rotations, for example. People do have brain cells in this game.

FF14 is clearly not catering to the world prog players. So the problem really is the incessant catering of casual players. This will eventually lead to FF14's decline, when you adjust content schedule and delivery to cater to the lowest common denominator, making the traditional midcore crowd dissatisfied and leave. Only reason this is obfuscated is because of all the influx. This game right now is full of new players that have no understanding of the game and have barely participated in the game for more than a tier. And even then I know plenty of WoW players who have quit after literally just one tier because the drought is even worse than in WoW.

People mock WoW's peaks and falls between expansions, but FF14's drops are bigger, sometimes by 50%.

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The game was already casual when it came out back in 2004. Compare the game to FFXI and Ragnarok Online for a tremendous epiphany.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

Square Enix is on the same trajectory as Blizzard. The sad thing is that the playerbase refuses to see this because of all the blind hype, and this same thing happened in WoW - people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

I believe most midcore players will be happy with healers that can do more than two button rotations, for example. People do have brain cells in this game.

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Thats incorrect. The Casuals started to flee during CATA when they made the game to hard. To the hardcore elitists the game was still to easy but yeah this is when people started to flee. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...geons-are-hard

After the post by Ghostcrawler telling people to deal with it or quit people did start quiting. Pretty much the suits at this point forced the developers to cater to the casuals and in a rage the developers and Ghostcrawler decided to insult its playerbase by making the Joke Panda race a real race. Before in WoW they were an April Fools joke but now they would give us a Disney joke panda easy expansion in which you could feel the developers condescension and this is when everyone started fleeing except the hardcore elite because remember they got no place to go except dead games like FFXI or Everquest. Ghostcrawler and those developers quit shortly after the Panda expansion released it was their sign off insult to everyone.

At this point in time WoW is a ghost yard if you ever decide to go back barely anyone is in the cities like Stormwind. It feels and looks dead.

You cannot make a game focusing on the hardcore Elite. The original FFXIV tried that and had to destroy and remake the entire game. So anything they dare to think about focusing on the hardcore elite all Square has to do is think back to Final Fantasy XIV (Orginial) and what they had to do.

FFXI's creator Tanka the Vile was pretty much given an office with a window and no duties which in Japan its considered a punishment and to be known you will leave the company soon. May his name forever be forgotten.

Hawaiian shirt man the evil that is locked behind the door in the Ruby Sea also known by his real name Nobuaki Komoto the Director of the original FFXIV and with Tanka designed the original FFXIV for the hardcore elite causing an event that almost destroyed the company surprisingly he was not fired. You hardcore players would of love him as he would of made you BDSM desires complete as he designed FFXIV where if you played more than 4 hours a week no more XP and you would be punished. Say it with me. 'Oh yeah, my accomplishment, more pain!' Give me my accomplishment!' he still works on FFXIV and is supervised insteading of leading and causing more harm.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

Square Enix is on the same trajectory as Blizzard. The sad thing is that the playerbase refuses to see this because of all the blind hype, and this same thing happened in WoW - people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

I believe most midcore players will be happy with healers that can do more than two button rotations, for example. People do have brain cells in this game.

FF14 is clearly not catering to the world prog players. So the problem really is the incessant catering of casual players. This will eventually lead to FF14's decline, when you adjust content schedule and delivery to cater to the lowest common denominator, making the traditional midcore crowd dissatisfied and leave. Only reason this is obfuscated is because of all the influx. This game right now is full of new players that have no understanding of the game and have barely participated in the game for more than a tier. And even then I know plenty of WoW players who have quit after literally just one tier because the drought is even worse than in WoW.

People mock WoW's peaks and falls between expansions, but FF14's drops are bigger, sometimes by 50%.

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ye sadly they have no reason to care for now. even if we at a low point but patched 6.1 and 6.2 will show more. so far they have lost arc to care for as its hitting strong. it sit on around 1m +- constantly for a month. if the next 2 patches here be dry and boring for he mid core players they move out.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

Thats incorrect. The Casuals started to flee during CATA when they made the game to hard. To the hardcore elitists the game was still to easy but yeah this is when people started to flee. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...geons-are-hard

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They massed nerfed mostly everything. It was also the expansion where Raid Finder was introduced in the last raid of the expac. There was a lot more reason to why people didnt like Cataclysm than "it was just too hard" -- most relating towards the story.

The major issues with difficulty were within that Heroics had a super low barrier of entry, but were tuned hard. Then they got nerfed to be faceroll.

There are many reasons behind WoW downfall but catering to casuals isn't one. The only time it catered to casuals was during WoD and its all too known content drought. it's always funny that people still have the mindset about casual players=bad players. Not spending 2-3 hours a day (which is a lot as you start adding up days) and being bad at playing the game aren't correlated. At all. Player's performance is mostly up to the player willingness to actually improve. Any issues with this are completely up to the player mentality, not the time investment.

Not to mention you're making a completely made up statement about the game's population. SE philosophy has been the same since ARR. And any and all who've been playing . If the majority of the playerbase were actually "midcore", the game wouldn't even have made it past Heavensward. And, as much as I like both WoW and FFXIV. WoW has always been more time consuming and hardcore oriented at any point of both games history. If people left WoW and entered FFXIV, you can be sure it wasn't because of casuals. Because this game has always catered to them far more than WoW ever did.

Also, all comparisons made with Lost Ark fall flat when you remove any nuance to them, because the gameplay in both games is completely different (honestly, they shouldn't even be in a same category, given that Lost Ark strictly follows the ARPG formula and design Diablo and PoE do).Aditionally, it's disingenuous to argue anything about Lost Ark being better/worse than anything else while it's still on the FOMO phase. Not to mention there are a lot more important factors to its success in play starting with the fact is F2P, regardless of P2W features, thus being a more accesible game. No price means anyone can install the game at no risk at all and the company gets more chances to toss a coin for a new player staying and spending money. It doesn't matter if only 50% of the registered users stays when you can get double the amount of registered users than another game with, let's say, 70% ratio of players that stay. Accesibility is a bigger key to success than catering to ANY population will ever be and the price is completely the biggest accesibility factor, other important ones being language and the agency they provide around play time. And both FFXIV and WoW are behind regarding monetary accesibility because the paywall behind them is far greater, given there is the base game+expansions+sub package to pay and the sub won't only deter new people but also returners. Does that mean anything in terms of quality or profitability? Not... necessarily. It just changes the draw needed to get people playing.

All in all, this is just another "new game is this game's killer" post that have been plaguing both these forums and WoW's over the years like a broken watch.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Except I have been playing FF14 since Heavensward and I probably have played way more of FF14 than you ever will.

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Hmm... why not post on your main account instead of "join date: Jul 2021" one?

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

They massed nerfed mostly everything. It was also the expansion where Raid Finder was introduced in the last raid of the expac. There was a lot more reason to why people didnt like Cataclysm than "it was just too hard" -- most relating towards the story.

The major issues with difficulty were within that Heroics had a super low barrier of entry, but were tuned hard. Then they got nerfed to be faceroll.

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Also them destroying the map and locations like the Barrens and thousand needles.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Hmm... why not post on your main account instead of "join date: Jul 2021" one?

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Because then that would be putting forth that they're full on liars...you just have to 'take their word for it'

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Hmm... why not post on your main account instead of "join date: Jul 2021" one?

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I don't know Skiros, but people like me had to buy a new account to migrate to Steam. Yeah, i was forced to buy a new game and expansions and play the whole game again last year just to pay the subscription in my country's currency
I play this game since the launch of A realm reborn, but my join date is not 2013. So i don't think you should consider the join date ALWAYS a big deal.

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Originally Posted by CodeAvellus

I don't know Skiros, but people like me had to buy a new account to migrate to Steam, so i could avoid paying the subscription in Dollars or Euros.
I play this game since the launch of A realm reborn, but my join date is not 2013. So i don't think you should consider the join date ALWAYS a big deal.

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Yeah, join date doesn't mean much. If people have been around long enough, however, they will know that Skiros has gone by many names, and none of them good.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

This tells me the know exactly who WoW devs caters too (pvp and raiding hardcore crowds) and they know this , resulting in :

you got baited as was intended

-50 DKP

more dots!

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On the contrary, there are people who actually think like the OP. Go read the WoW forums if you want proof.

???

From an outside observation, it just looks like WOW sounds like it's another XEROX while FF14 is designed for a more modern market that made concessions to the needs of an older consumer base with less free time and the large number of an untapped solo playing market. The only issues are currently like: mid-core content, a lack of a skill-based (individual and group) PVP, and explorer unfriendly designs or minimal internally-designed explorer content that regularly is glossed over because it's fetch quest-chains instead of story, or structures designed for achievers. Though, the spaghetti code is most likely going to be a reason for a major push to just replace it with a new game in the long term as the designs for such content need to be designed at an earlier period or it's not cost or time effective to do so

I will admit I found the joke about the WoW devs actually caring about any part of their player base (or that there are people dumb enough to still believe they do) pretty funny

a crumb of midcore content please

The majority of this games player base is Casual and has been since ARR launched. I've been around long enough to know this for an absolute fact.

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

Does the cookbook has any egg recipe?

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Yes, it does. There's a whole chapter on breakfasts alone plus a couple egg related recipes in other chapters.

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Originally Posted by Seafishie

a crumb of midcore content please

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*Updates Eureka to have a slightly better exp rate*
You're welcome. :^)

Everything has an end. Someday FFXIV will be replaced by something as well. It won't be anytime soon. But it will happen someday.

As long as people have emotions, this game is going to thrive. Just because of the story. Emotions causes attachment. And attachment causes people to stick to the game. (Also is the reason why it is hard to criticize the game due to the backlash of this)

Even ultimates are easy. I don't feel any difficulty in the game at all anymore. I can see everything getting dumped down by this trend in raid difficulty. I hope someday we can have something higher than ultimates in difficulty and atleast make week 1 dps checks relevant for once, but probably won't see that.

The irony in OP’s post is that WoW is actually dying because it doesn’t cater enough to its casual players. Harder normal raids, too many grindy systems every new patch, not alt friendly… the list goes on.

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

I will admit I found the joke about the WoW devs actually caring about any part of their player base (or that there are people dumb enough to still believe they do) pretty funny

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All WoW devs care about is their Twitter following and likes.