Parsing unfair but okay?

Parsers are not elegant enough.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

for arguments sake lets assume the thread is not just Bait, saying one has raided for x amount of time and simply has no logs at all because they can't/don't want to parse is more than a little bit iffy.

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Which I did early on and shows a TON of parses from Shadowbringers. This is why this whole thread is a bait

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

for arguments sake lets assume the thread is not just Bait, saying one has raided for x amount of time and simply has no logs at all because they can't/don't want to parse is more than a little bit iffy.
reality is that most groups will have someone parse and upload logs, if not to brag than for analysing purposes. even if no one i personally know would have uploaded a single log i would still have several logs for some older ex primals, and i basically never actively joined random groups to do the kills but mostly jumped in if a buddy of mine was like "hey, we still need 1 guy to fill in, you up?"

same goes for normal mode kills, which while not really great a metric do give you at least a vague idea of someones performance if they average purple+ compared to someone with more than 5 normal mode logs which are all grey aswell as a single no death 7% ex kill.

if you have no logs at all, like literally zero logs for old or current content even though you claim to have experience reaching back at least a complete expansion than i'll just assume you either lie and have no experiences at all or you have your logs hidden and draw my conclusions from there, and i assure you theres a 99% chance of being right in my assessment with that approach. Now "bad" logs are an entirely different story, unless someones logs are flat out terrible over a long enough period 90% of groups will simply throw you a bone and ask why exactly your logs are as bad they are and give you a trial run.

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Yea I'd like to think that if all the logs you have over time show an improvement that will matter a lot more than individual bad logs.

If they are advertising in PF parses then just report them for breaking ToS.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

If they are advertising in PF parses then just report them for breaking ToS.

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No one likes snitches; you'll never have real friends if you're one of those and you would just be wasting GMs time. I bet you never read the ToS, have you? They won't suspend/ban people for using parsers unless they are using it to harass other players. Going back to my first point, don't be one of those even in real life. Keep to yourself, otherwise you'll end up on everyone's shytlist and you'll be the first one to get robbed if society collapses. lol

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The thing is if you do that, people will instead assume you're trying to hide bad performance and judge you anyways so you can't really win either way unless you're willing to actively grind out parse runs which will still inevitably be "not good enough" for someone out there if they aren't orange.

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This may just be from being extremely lucky, but when I am asked why my logs are hidden I explain how I lived and died by Raider.IO. Just invoking the name made everyone go, "Ah, that's fair." The stress of having every single activity you do being actively logged whether you upload or not does some serious damage to the brain that I would rather not ever repeat.

While I am for parsing, I do see why some people do not want to have their parse data public, so it does baffle me why the default is that FFlogs shows the name and doesn't just replace it with the job name. It seems silly that if you want it hidden, you have to make an account to do it when it should be the other way around. Make an account if you want to see the parses/change them to public.

There might be a reason, however, I do not know what that could potentially be.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

No one likes snitches; you'll never have real friends if you're one of those and you would just be wasting GMs time. I bet you never read the ToS, have you? They won't suspend/ban people for using parsers unless they are using it to harass other players. Going back to my first point, don't be one of those even in real life. Keep to yourself, otherwise you'll end up on everyone's shytlist and you'll be the first one to get robbed if society collapses. lol

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Since this was brought up.

Terms of Service:

Behavior that disrupts the game balance

Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools as these disrupt the balance of the game. Third-party programs and tools that permit automated or "absentee" play are prohibited. A Game Master (GM) may speak to players to investigate and confirm "absentee" play, and if the player continues with this behavior, contrary to the GM's instructions, they will be treated as participating in "absentee" play and subject to penalties.

Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analyzing, integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data.

- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Since this was brought up.

Terms of Service:

Behavior that disrupts the game balance

Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools as these disrupt the balance of the game. Third-party programs and tools that permit automated or "absentee" play are prohibited. A Game Master (GM) may speak to players to investigate and confirm "absentee" play, and if the player continues with this behavior, contrary to the GM's instructions, they will be treated as participating in "absentee" play and subject to penalties.

Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analyzing, integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data.

- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

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I just realized that statement is contradictory as if you try to report someone for "absentee play" the GMs will adamantly insist they can't do anything about it and redirect you to the nigh-uselessSTF instead.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I just realized that statement is contradictory as if you try to report someone for "absentee play" the GMs will adamantly insist they can't do anything about it and redirect you to the nigh-uselessSTF instead.

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It isn’t so much the top part that covers the discussion at hand, but rather, the last two sentences.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

It isn’t so much the top part that covers the discussion at hand, but rather, the last two sentences.

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The relevance here, I believe, is: "They're not enforcing one part of that section entirely, the one that's arguably more important to enforce and affects a much larger proportion of the playerbase. Why would they enforce the other part?"

I recommend getting good. Then you won't have to worry about being rejected by statics.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The thing is if you do that, people will instead assume you're trying to hide bad performance and judge you anyways so you can't really win either way unless you're willing to actively grind out parse runs which will still inevitably be "not good enough" for someone out there if they aren't orange.

Had multiple PFs back in Stormblood that straight up refused to queue into the instance until I unhid my performance, but thankfully I was "good enough" by their standards.

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Far more often than not, people who hide their logs are doing so because they have horrendous performances they don't want anyone to know about. Having a couple random greys because someone uploaded a Normal or 24 man won't matter to anyone you'd want to associate with. Completely hiding your logs makes it so the group you're joining has no point of reference. They have to simply take you at your word. Unfortunately, a lot of people lie.

Of course, there are exceptions. I know a speed killer who keeps her logs hidden despite achieving some top five performances but that is extremely rare.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Yea I'd like to think that if all the logs you have over time show an improvement that will matter a lot more than individual bad logs.

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They undoubtedly will. One of the first things I look for during static recruitment is your percentile trajectory and consistency. One orange is a sea of greens tells me you aren't improving but simply got really luck one run where a health amount of low purples shows you have a finer gripe on your job but haven't quite hit the high end potential. There's room to grow.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Far more often than not, people who hide their logs are doing so because they have horrendous performances they don't want anyone to know about. Having a couple random greys because someone uploaded a Normal or 24 man won't matter to anyone you'd want to associate with. Completely hiding your logs makes it so the group you're joining has no point of reference. They have to simply take you at your word. Unfortunately, a lot of people lie.

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In addition to this, while recruiting I find a lot of people who hide their logs generally have really irrational feelings or anxiety surrounding discussions of performance, which is NOT a good characteristic for someone joining a raidgroup.

I've encountered some really insane hostility from people whom I've prodded about their hidden logs during recruitment. It almost feels like people like that apply to groups just to fish for reactions that confirm their bias and feed their outrage.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

for arguments sake lets assume the thread is not just Bait, saying one has raided for x amount of time and simply has no logs at all because they can't/don't want to parse is more than a little bit iffy.
reality is that most groups will have someone parse and upload logs, if not to brag than for analysing purposes. even if no one i personally know would have uploaded a single log i would still have several logs for some older ex primals, and i basically never actively joined random groups to do the kills but mostly jumped in if a buddy of mine was like "hey, we still need 1 guy to fill in, you up?"

same goes for normal mode kills, which while not really great a metric do give you at least a vague idea of someones performance if they average purple+ compared to someone with more than 5 normal mode logs which are all grey aswell as a single no death 7% ex kill.

if you have no logs at all, like literally zero logs for old or current content even though you claim to have experience reaching back at least a complete expansion than i'll just assume you either lie and have no experiences at all or you have your logs hidden and draw my conclusions from there, and i assure you theres a 99% chance of being right in my assessment with that approach. Now "bad" logs are an entirely different story, unless someones logs are flat out terrible over a long enough period 90% of groups will simply throw you a bone and ask why exactly your logs are as bad they are and give you a trial run.

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Just to add a bit to this. Some groups will keep their logs unranked. Reasons will vary and won't always be good but it's a thing. Same groups usually don't fill when they have an absentee either (from my experience). They just reschedule. And members are even less likely to pug or join other groups. So it's plausible that someone could have 0 logs for a tier. I've also seen some decent players come from such statics (they generally aren't the ones that drive the unranking of logs). It takes 5 seconds to clear this up with said player if they apply for your static though. And they can generally produce a handful of unranked log links for you if needed. Not that that's particularly useful.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

The funniest part of all of this is watching these same types of people play any video game that isn't an MMO and seeing them get filtered within the first 10 minutes. Turns out they were just using addons as a crutch for being having poor reaction times and lacking basic problem solving skills, and when they can't use them, they can't play. All that tough talk is just cope for needing third party tools to hold their hand in a video game. As someone who has mostly played action games and puzzle-solving games (cranking the difficulty to maximum possible) all my life I have never understood the need for third party tools to basically dumb down the game for me, let alone flexing about it on the internet. FFXIV's fights revolve around having good reaction times, being able to read telegraphed attacks, and having bare minimum problem solving skills to be able to decipher certain mechanics that aren't just obvious telegraphed attacks but require you to pay attention and use your brain, alongside knowing your job and how to perform it correctly.

If you need any sort of addon to raid in this game, I'm sorry, but you are legitimately a bad player. To me, were I forming a static, it's more of a red flag that you use them then if you don't. If you need some third party internet tool to tell you if you're playing badly or not I don't want you anywhere near my raids.

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checked ur page xd that was a mistake. this post makes sense now. lol

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

The relevance here, I believe, is: "They're not enforcing one part of that section entirely, the one that's arguably more important to enforce and affects a much larger proportion of the playerbase. Why would they enforce the other part?"

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That you know of. If you have statistics and logistics on what Square Enix has, and has not enforced in regards to their Terms of Service, I’m open to hearing it.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

That you know of. If you have statistics and logistics on what Square Enix has, and has not enforced in regards to their Terms of Service, I’m open to hearing it.

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Statistics, of course not. But it’s fairly common knowledge that a lot of the crafting/gathering and PvP bots continue to go unpunished in this game.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Statistics, of course not. But it’s fairly common knowledge that a lot of the crafting/gathering and PvP bots continue to go unpunished in this game.

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Perception is not often the reality of the situation as a whole. It is only one side of the coin, seen from an external viewpoint and, demonstrably in this case, the one that is the least informed in regards to the question at hand.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Perception is not often the reality of the situation as a whole. It is only one side of the coin, seen from an external viewpoint and, demonstrably in this case, the one that is the least informed in regards to the question at hand.

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There is a ring of crafting and gathering bots on my server that have been reported multiple times since Stormblood—and nothing has ever been done about them. They have continued to happily bot away unabated. The only comeuppance one got wasn’t even from SE but from someone hacking their account, deleting their FC, and spending all their gil. Pardon if I don’t have the most favorable view of the enforcement of the ToS with regards to this.

That said, ToS or not, it’s common knowledge that parsers are don’t ask, don’t tell. Multiple big name streamers openly display them on their Twitch channels, and they aren’t reported or banned for them. Yoshida knows that parsers keep the raids relevant beyond getting gear, so he’s not going to advocate massive enforcement of banning players that use them. It’s truly astounding the number of people in this thread that advocate blindly reporting people out of nothing but pure vindictiveness, and then act as if they are the righteous ones in this situation. GCBTW, indeed.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Just to add a bit to this. Some groups will keep their logs unranked. Reasons will vary and won't always be good but it's a thing. Same groups usually don't fill when they have an absentee either (from my experience). They just reschedule. And members are even less likely to pug or join other groups. So it's plausible that someone could have 0 logs for a tier. I've also seen some decent players come from such statics (they generally aren't the ones that drive the unranking of logs). It takes 5 seconds to clear this up with said player if they apply for your static though. And they can generally produce a handful of unranked log links for you if needed. Not that that's particularly useful.

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This is often the case with more casual statics. In addition to that, such statics usually don't even start at week 1, but sometimes months latter, not sure how ranking works in this case, if they are being ranked just against recent runs then they would be ranked against speed runners etc, no?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There is a ring of crafting and gathering bots on my server that have been reported multiple times since Stormblood—and nothing has ever been done about them. They have continued to happily bot away unabated. The only comeuppance one got wasn’t even from SE but from someone hacking their account, deleting their FC, and spending all their gil. Pardon if I don’t have the most favorable view of the enforcement of the ToS with regards to this.

That said, ToS or not, it’s common knowledge that parsers are don’t ask, don’t tell. Multiple big name streamers openly display them on their Twitch channels, and they aren’t reported or banned for them. Yoshida knows that parsers keep the raids relevant beyond getting gear, so he’s not going to advocate massive enforcement of banning players that use them. It’s truly astounding the number of people in this thread that advocate blindly reporting people out of nothing but pure vindictiveness, and then act as if they are the righteous ones in this situation. GCBTW, indeed.

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Be that as it may, and I do sympathize with your frustration as RMT and Botters are the scum of the earth, and were a particularly vexing pain point for me mining Darksteel ore in the Gusgen Mines in FFXI back in the day…

The fact that others are breaking the Terms of Service does not suddenly give carte blanche for one to do the same.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Statistics, of course not. But it’s fairly common knowledge that a lot of the crafting/gathering and PvP bots continue to go unpunished in this game.

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Bot ban waves happen irregularly because if SE were to ban a bot the instant it gets discovered, the bot makers just change it immediately and create a new bot account.
By allowing them to run for some time and the banning in huge irregular waves, it makes it a bit harder for them to change what got them caught.
It also concentrates illicit material in comparatively fewer bots.

There's also some bots that get put on watchlists so they can trace the legit account that is the source player for the bot accounts.

If it helps any, think of it more like drug busting.
Sure, removing the dealer as soon as he appears on the street is good for the community. But unless they take down the supplier, a new dealer will pop up every day.
So they watch the dealers to catch the suppliers.

Delete the english section of the forum . Thanks

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Bot ban waves happen irregularly because if SE were to ban a bot the instant it gets discovered, the bot makers just change it immediately and create a new bot account.
By allowing them to run for some time and the banning in huge irregular waves, it makes it a bit harder for them to change what got them caught.
It also concentrates illicit material in comparatively fewer bots.

There's also some bots that get put on watchlists so they can trace the legit account that is the source player for the bot accounts.

If it helps any, think of it more like drug busting.
Sure, removing the dealer as soon as he appears on the street is good for the community. But unless they take down the supplier, a new dealer will pop up every day.
So they watch the dealers to catch the suppliers.

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Yeah, I don’t think that’s how things work in this game. If so, well watching this ring of bots for 4+ years is certainly quite generous of the STF.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Be that as it may, and I do sympathize with your frustration as RMT and Botters are the scum of the earth, and were a particularly vexing pain point for me mining Darksteel ore in the Gusgen Mines in FFXI back in the day…

The fact that others are breaking the Terms of Service does not suddenly give carte blanche for one to do the same.

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The developers aren’t enforcing the ToS when it comes to parsers because of the reasons I stated above—they know that if they suddenly start taking action, Savage dies. There’s no point in continuing to run it outside of getting gear. The competitive raid scene is built upon chasing leaderboards, and that scene keeps the content alive. As long as the parsers aren’t used to harass, SE will do nothing about them. When they are used to harass, the person is punished under the harassment clause—not the third-party software clause. See: Arthars.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Yeah, I don’t think that’s how things work in this game. If so, well watching this ring of bots for 4+ years is certainly quite generous of the STF.



The developers aren’t enforcing the ToS when it comes to parsers because of the reasons I stated above—they know that if they suddenly start taking action, Savage dies. There’s no point in continuing to run it outside of getting gear. The competitive raid scene is built upon chasing leaderboards, and that scene keeps the content alive. As long as the parsers aren’t used to harass, SE will do nothing about them. When they are used to harass, the person is punished under the harassment clause—not the third-party software clause. See: Arthars.

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I’m aware of what happened with Arthars. I’m also aware of what happened with others as well. SE has also said that if they so choose, they can suddenly start banning people left and right for it. This has been openly stated.

All of the arguments for and against, none of that changes the fact that it is against the Terms of Service.

I don’t use parsers. I don’t need to, nor do I have a desire to. If I wish to test myself, I have other methods of doing so that don’t break the Terms of Service.

No matter how much people try to hand wave that it is “ OK “ because SE does not currently enforce it according to their argument, will not change the fact that it is still against the TOS.

In essence, SE has not said it is ok. Rather, they have stated openly it is against TOS and that any use of such tools is at the users own risk.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There is a ring of crafting and gathering bots on my server that have been reported multiple times since Stormblood—and nothing has ever been done about them. They have continued to happily bot away unabated. The only comeuppance one got wasn’t even from SE but from someone hacking their account, deleting their FC, and spending all their gil. Pardon if I don’t have the most favorable view of the enforcement of the ToS with regards to this.

That said, ToS or not, it’s common knowledge that parsers are don’t ask, don’t tell. Multiple big name streamers openly display them on their Twitch channels, and they aren’t reported or banned for them. Yoshida knows that parsers keep the raids relevant beyond getting gear, so he’s not going to advocate massive enforcement of banning players that use them. It’s truly astounding the number of people in this thread that advocate blindly reporting people out of nothing but pure vindictiveness, and then act as if they are the righteous ones in this situation. GCBTW, indeed.

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You are 100% right.

People try to wield the ToS, as if they have power. Insecure folks indeed. It baffles me. Just let people play the game. And as to the whole Botting thing. Well Square Enix has done a great job of doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if those monthly, Oh we banned X amount of accounts is just for show, and pure BS. And on another term. Y'all know what makes bots easier to program. A heavily scripted game... and macro's..... lmao..

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Originally Posted by Anonicat

People try to wield the ToS, as if they have power. Insecure folks indeed. It baffles me. Just let people play the game. And as to the whole Botting thing. Well Square Enix has done a great job of doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if those monthly, Oh we banned X amount of accounts is just for show, and pure BS. And on another term. Y'all know what makes bots easier to program. A heavily scripted game... and macro's..... lmao..

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The RMT shout bots in the big cities are pretty easy to ban but that's also completely without consequence. The unfortunate truth is that a huge amount of players are not negatively impacted by crafting and gathering bots as they will push prices on many things down in an effort to undercut and push out legit competition.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

I’m aware of what happened with Arthars. I’m also aware of what happened with others as well. SE has also said that if they so choose, they can suddenly start banning people left and right for it. This has been openly stated.

All of the arguments for and against, none of that changes the fact that it is against the Terms of Service.

I don’t use parsers. I don’t need to, nor do I have a desire to. If I wish to test myself, I have other methods of doing so that don’t break the Terms of Service.

No matter how much people try to hand wave that it is “ OK “ because SE does not currently enforce it according to their argument, will not change the fact that it is still against the TOS.

In essence, SE has not said it is ok. Rather, they have stated openly it is against TOS and that any use of such tools is at the users own risk.

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That's weird, I see some data from your character on the big bad scary parsing website...

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

That's weird, I see some data from your character on the big bad scary parsing website...

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It’s not unusual to see your own log in that website despite not uploading any parsed files yourself.

For every DF/PF contents we participated with another player, all it takes is just 1 (ONE) player from each party to do the parsing and uploads it to that website for your performance to be logged.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

That's weird, I see some data from your character on the big bad scary parsing website...

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I have zero control over whether players I have grouped with use parsers or not.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It’s not unusual to see your own log in that website despite not uploading any parsed files yourself.

For every DF/PF contents we participated with another player, all it takes is just 1 (ONE) player from each party to do the parsing and uploads it to that website for your performance to be logged.

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which is exactly why having "experience" but zero logs is a giant red flag.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

I’m aware of what happened with Arthars. I’m also aware of what happened with others as well. SE has also said that if they so choose, they can suddenly start banning people left and right for it. This has been openly stated.

All of the arguments for and against, none of that changes the fact that it is against the Terms of Service.

I don’t use parsers. I don’t need to, nor do I have a desire to. If I wish to test myself, I have other methods of doing so that don’t break the Terms of Service.

No matter how much people try to hand wave that it is “ OK “ because SE does not currently enforce it according to their argument, will not change the fact that it is still against the TOS.

In essence, SE has not said it is ok. Rather, they have stated openly it is against TOS and that any use of such tools is at the users own risk.

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Unfortunately, this is impossible in this game—since it gives no indication of personal skill or personal damage dealt outside of sitting down with an Excel spreadsheet, a calculator, and a vast amount of time on one’s hands. If you ever wish to know your true performance, that is only possible with a parser. You are mistaken if you believe anything else in this game will inform you of whether or not you’re doing an adequate, below adequate, or above adequate job.

If SE were going to ban parser users, then they would. But they know that doing so kills their raid scene. So they allow it “unofficially”. You can wave around the ToS as much as you want, but it’s meaningless if it isn’t enforced.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

which is exactly why having "experience" but zero logs is a giant red flag.

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Or…

It could just mean that the group I have run weekend events with for quite a long time now to get mounts and run end game content does not use parsers either.

Food for thought, and all that.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Or…

It could just mean that the group I have run weekend events with for quite a long time now to get mounts and run end game content does not use parsers either.

Food for thought, and all that.

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Fairly certain they’re referring to people like the OP who do not run with a set group. If you run with randoms, you are at the mercy of any one of them uploading logs. It’s highly improbable that anyone with any decent amount of raiding experience in PF would also have zero logs to reflect said experience.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Unfortunately, this is impossible in this game—since it gives no indication of personal skill or personal damage dealt outside of sitting down with an Excel spreadsheet, a calculator, and a vast amount of time on one’s hands. If you ever wish to know your true performance, that is only possible with a parser. You are mistaken if you believe anything else in this game will inform you of whether or not you’re doing an adequate, below adequate, or above adequate job.

If SE were going to ban parser users, then they would. But they know that doing so kills their raid scene. So they allow it “unofficially”. You can wave around the ToS as much as you want, but it’s meaningless if it isn’t enforced.

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Not to mention that actually implementing the ability to track whose parsing would likely take a ton of dev time, if it's even possible in the first place. I'd imagine the large majority of players would rather have that dev time spent on new content.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Unfortunately, this is impossible in this game—since it gives no indication of personal skill or personal damage dealt outside of sitting down with an Excel spreadsheet, a calculator, and a vast amount of time on one’s hands. If you ever wish to know your true performance, that is only possible with a parser. You are mistaken if you believe anything else in this game will inform you of whether or not you’re doing an adequate, below adequate, or above adequate job.

If SE were going to ban parser users, then they would. But they know that doing so kills their raid scene. So they allow it “unofficially”. You can wave around the ToS as much as you want, but it’s meaningless if it isn’t enforced.

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I’m not sure why you think improvement without a parser is not possible, when it is. There are ways in game of measuring your general capabilities and dps against a boss without a parser. And from those, I have derived ways to improve.



As for the latter bit, we are repeating ourselves. And our opinions on that matter are clearly not going to change. That having been said, I wish you no ill will. I don’t care whether folks parse or not. That’s their business, and a risk they take unto themselves.

It is their choice.

It does not change the fact that it is against TOS.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Not to mention that actually implementing the ability to track whose parsing would likely take a ton of dev time, if it's even possible in the first place. I'd imagine the large majority of players would rather have that dev time spent on new content.

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Well it would involve installing their own software on a player’s computer to scan files in search for anything reading the game’s memory—anti-cheat software, in other words. Which is illegal in a lot of countries, including Japan last I checked. With a global game, it would be impossible for SE to enforce this anti-cheating software.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Fairly certain they’re referring to people like the OP who do not run with a set group. If you run with randoms, you are at the mercy of any one of them uploading logs. It’s highly improbable that anyone with any decent amount of raiding experience in PF would also have zero logs to reflect said experience.

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Ah, gotcha. It’s possible that I misinterpreted then, and If I did, my apologies. Been a long night running boring maintenance on vital systems.