"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

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Originally Posted by Awha

Unless you are saying that the overall increase is all that matters which is unfair comparison since of course with increased availability more issues of toxicity would occur.

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Why is that unfair, because that is indeed the issue?

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some like to say one cannot compare FFXIV to other games yet when it comes to parsing we are quick to site our negative experiences in other games as a reason to not have them.

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Well, I think you have to look at any comparison being made and judge its validity on its own. Do you believe social interactions within different games in the same genre not comparable, especially one as similar as, say, FFXIV and WoW? There are definitely differences between the two games, and one has to be careful with what is being compared, but I think social interaction has a lot of human factor to it, and plenty of people have played both FFXIV and WoW, so some things can translate well between the two games given enough similarity.

Its more an ego thing. They can give us an in game parser (they should, especially for console players), and the harassment policy wouldn't change. So its more so them being worried about bruised ego me thinks.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

They can give us an in game parser (they should, especially for console players), and the harassment policy wouldn't change.

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The policy wouldn't change. The number of policy violation would.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Why is that unfair, because that is indeed the issue?

Well, I think you have to look at any comparison being made and judge its validity on its own. Do you believe social interactions within different games in the same genre not comparable, especially one as similar as, say, FFXIV and WoW? There are definitely differences between the two games, and one has to be careful with what is being compared, but I think social interaction has a lot of human factor to it, and plenty of people have played both FFXIV and WoW, so some things can translate well between the two games given enough similarity.

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It is unfair in my eyes cause when at the very least when I look at issues when you do not adjust for increase population data most data can been viewed unfair, cause if course with more people more issues will occur no one is denying it. As stated if I were to make a position it would be that Theo shift would not be statistically different from the volume of current report’s regarding toxicity or parser harassment when accounted for the uptick in availability.

Just seems like an unfair way to look at the data, though you are right more cases wouldn’t occur though can we really say it would be all that different from what we have. Personally I cannot say, but I am sure others may view differently.

Though in terms of social interactions between each game even if they are the same genre I would honestly have an easier time comparing gameplay elements cause the social experience at least for me differs greatly. Not sure what it is but the social experience even down to the trolls seem more unfiltered and things that public outcry here I do not think would phase the WoW community.

Though I am in the camp that while games may be comparable the community often cannot. Like I can compare game design philosophy between DOTA 2, LoL, HOTS the communities differ so greatly at least in my opinion that one cannot fairly compare the three. Same is fir me and FFXIV. Hope that makes sense. As an example I find myself far less crash in FFXIV then compared to FFXIV and more laid back I guess. Even my friends who do not play FFXIV but we use the same discord say I am like a differ t person.idk at least in my eyes something about each game draws a different vibe out.

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Originally Posted by Awha

It is unfair in my eyes cause when at the very least when I look at issues when you do not adjust for increase population data most data can been viewed unfair, cause if course with more people more issues will occur no one is denying it. As stated if I were to make a position it would be that Theo shift would not be statistically different from the volume of current report’s regarding toxicity or parser harassment when accounted for the uptick in availability.

Just seems like an unfair way to look at the data, though you are right more cases wouldn’t occur though can we really say it would be all that different from what we have. Personally I cannot say, but I am sure others may view differently.

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Well, the thing is, when you say to adjust for the increase in population data, keep in mind that the population itself does not necessarily change. So when you have a means of being toxic being more freely used within the same population, of course there will be an increase in toxicity. So making decision to prevent that is not being unfair with regard to the population data, just a natural reaction to an inevitable outcome.

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Though in terms of social interactions between each game even if they are the same genre I would honestly have an easier time comparing gameplay elements cause the social experience at least for me differs greatly. Not sure what it is but the social experience even down to the trolls seem more unfiltered and things that public outcry here I do not think would phase the WoW community.

Though I am in the camp that while games may be comparable the community often cannot. Like I can compare game design philosophy between DOTA 2, LoL, HOTS the communities differ so greatly at least in my opinion that one cannot fairly compare the three. Same is fir me and FFXIV. Hope that makes sense. As an example I find myself far less crash in FFXIV then compared to FFXIV and more laid back I guess. Even my friends who do not play FFXIV but we use the same discord say I am like a differ t person.idk at least in my eyes something about each game draws a different vibe out.

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Specifically, the interaction being compared is grouped PVE content with GCD-based action system intended to kill enemies through an instance with other people via random matchmaking or selective party making. The fact that one community is more casual than another with respect to gear or any other factor does not change the composition of the overall community in both games having players with different interests coming together to play.

In fact, you've said several times how you prefer what WoW has in terms of social interaction, and allowing parsing is one way to be more similar to WoW in that regard, so the comparison becomes more valid as well with respect to the effect within the community.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Well, the thing is, when you say to adjust for the increase in population data, keep in mind that the population itself does not necessarily change. So when you have a means of being toxic being more freely used within the same population, of course there will be an increase in toxicity. So making decision to prevent that is not being unfair with regard to the population data, just a natural reaction to an inevitable outcome.

Specifically, the interaction being compared is grouped PVE content with GCD-based action system intended to kill enemies through an instance with other people via random matchmaking or selective party making. The fact that one community is more casual than another with respect to gear or any other factor does not change the composition of the overall community in both games having players with different interests coming together to play.

In fact, you've said several times how you prefer what WoW has in terms of social interaction, and allowing parsing is one way to be more similar to WoW in that regard, so the comparison becomes more valid as well with respect to the effect within the community.

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By population increase I mean the uptick and availability not and an in crease of overall population. I used the word population cause their would be an increase in parsing population. I never did state overall population would increase. Sorry for the confusion. So sure it it in inevitable outcome but in my eyes that increase is moot cause of course it would happen question is would the increase be statistically different from now. I personally do not think so.

Though as I mentioned with the moba comparison I can compare game play elements but social interactions I cannot compare. While the elements may be similar each community has a different vibe. So to me comparing both communities is disingenuous cause while the core gameplay may be the same the general game philosophy differ greatly from progression to to encounter design, and overall community accountability/ expectations on the players.

The core communities have enough differences that I do not think the same elements are enough to to paint broad strokes x happened in y so x will also happen in a. So sure i would like more parsing freedom but I do feel the core differences in each community are enough to not be able to say with certainty that it would lead to another WoW community.

I get where you are coming from but I tend to view things on a case by case bases so I get your stance and I get SE desire that is why I have said I know this will never happen but I will always be in favor at looking at each thing on its own. Sure this makes dealing with me annoying people at work hste me but this is how I function I t7ry to not make assumptions even if they are backed behind by data. I tend to want to validate the assumption for myself though that iso also why I did not state a position from the start cause without it happening to FFXIV I cannot say for certain what would happen so makes having a debate moot cause it will never happen by venture of Yoshi-P.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I cannot say for certain what would happen so makes having a debate moot cause it will never happen by venture of Yoshi-P.

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I would agree on this topic, but you never really know what will happen in the future. That's why discussions on it on the official forum are never really moot, because it's a form of feedback from both sides.

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They can give us an in game parser (they should, especially for console players)

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Has already been stated in clear terms

Will. not. happen.

Everyone has their own experiences in this game, but all the drama of dungeon roles, healers dpsing (or not) and rotations are things I've ONLY ever seen in lower level dungeons with maybe a single exception I can recall.

It's a hard thing that I've had to tell my wife and newer players in FFXIV, that these elite weridos don't exist after you level up some. Something about a level 20 just thinks they know everything about how this game runs I don't get it... or these personalities quickly quit.

Long story short, wife just bought her levels in the shop. Best decision she ever made. None of the dungeons she's been in since has given her grief, and it's not because she got better.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Everyone has their own experiences in this game, but all the drama of dungeon roles, healers dpsing (or not) and rotations are things I've ONLY ever seen in lower level dungeons with maybe a single exception I can recall.

It's a hard thing that I've had to tell my wife and newer players in FFXIV, that these elite weridos don't exist after you level up some. Something about a level 20 just thinks they know everything about how this game runs I don't get it... or these personalities quickly quit.

Long story short, wife just bought her levels in the shop. Best decision she ever made. None of the dungeons she's been in since has given her grief, and it's not because she got better.

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I think it's because it's frustrating for capped players to be thrown into a lvl 20 dungeon and have to play a braindead starter dungeon with 90% of their toolkit taken away. I can understand them feeling upset that its not over as soon as possible.

I'll go back and read some more of this later but just in reference to the what if: In-Game Parser.

The reports of harassment may go up a little but in actuality what would happen is that people would be getting silently kicked a lot more often from pfs, that's all.

Some people can't be be bothered to go through the inconvenience that is setting up a 3rd party program for another application but when the data is given to every single consumer and the data is only a click away, if that.
Those people who were too lazy but weren't unwilling to kick dead weight, will kick dead weight.

Sometimes I just have a stroke in the middle of a dungeon (being the healer) or I'm simply drunk. I would accept any 'toxic' behaviour and laugh it off but even then people are nice in the game. I can't relate to your experience at all.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I think it's because it's frustrating for capped players to be thrown into a lvl 20 dungeon and have to play a braindead starter dungeon with 90% of their toolkit taken away. I can understand them feeling upset that its not over as soon as possible.

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Then dont queue for levelling roulette.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I think it's because it's frustrating for capped players to be thrown into a lvl 20 dungeon and have to play a braindead starter dungeon with 90% of their toolkit taken away. I can understand them feeling upset that its not over as soon as possible.

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The leveling roulette's, and pretty much all the roulettes, main purpose is to shunt higher level players into lower level content to ensure new players will have short queue times. The daily rewards are there to entice you into helping others and as compensation for having to run such lower level content. If you don't want to run the risk of ending up in someplace like Copperbell Mines just don't queue for the leveling roulette.

While getting a lowbie dungeon for leveling sucks, it can be mitigated by going fast. If you aren't going fast it's a slog.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

The leveling roulette's, and pretty much all the roulettes, main purpose is to shunt higher level players into lower level content to ensure new players will have short queue times. The daily rewards are there to entice you into helping others and as compensation for having to run such lower level content. If you don't want to run the risk of ending up in someplace like Copperbell Mines just don't queue for the leveling roulette.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Then dont queue for levelling roulette.

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Very aware. Just pointing it out that there's a huge difference between a lvl 15-50 dungeon and a 51+ one. I'm saying the hostility the user I quoted is experiencing is probably due to lack of buttons, not that I personally hate Leveling Roulette. You're free to reread my post again for further clarification :D