Months of harassment

It's also easier to ignore it when you're not systematically the target of it. What's being doing is explicitly against ToS and people shouldn't have to just put up with it to play a subscription game. The point of paying a subscription is that it pays for development and upkeep. It's great that burying your head in the sand is effective for you, but it isn't sufficient for the populations in question. People deserve better.

Well, if people are getting upset by such things then I think that they should take the time to distance themselves from the situation. Novice Network can be switched off, after all.

Admittedly not a great situation to be in, though there's ways to help new players without leaning on the Novice Network, luckily.

It isn't burying your head in the sand if you choose to ignore idiocy. Its called taking the high road.

Maybe you should work on your community then since your community typically breeds these parasites.

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Originally Posted by Cyreil

Maybe you should work on your community then since your community typically breeds these parasites.

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I'm honestly curious as to who from Aether hurt you so bad that you see the whole data centre as toxic? I've been on Cactuar since I started(early 2015), and while there are toxic people - whom I have reported for anything that is a breach of any TOS, I really haven't seen as much toxicity as you seem to believe there is. Hell, with the fact that Balmung is on a completely different data centre(was this the trigger?), I would think you would move on and forget about Aether since you no longer have to deal with anyone from here.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Well, if people are getting upset by such things then I think that they should take the time to distance themselves from the situation. Novice Network can be switched off, after all.

Admittedly not a great situation to be in, though there's ways to help new players without leaning on the Novice Network, luckily.

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NN being switched off isn't going to help anyone, especially new players coming into the game that have that shoved into their faces. Wondering what is going on and if that is how things normally are in this game. I've already seen new and veteran players alike, say they don't want to continue playing the game if that dude is going to continuously spam racial and other hateful slurs in NN. I can guarantee you that if he were to somehow be permabanned from NN and not from the actual game, he would take his extreme spam to main city states, where a LOT of people hang out. The fact of the matter is, those of you that are trying to say to sweep this under the rug, or ignore it, or leave NN and ignore, etc, you are essentially saying that this extreme type of behavior is okay. And let me remind you, it is not. Even if it is not directed directly at you, is it NOT okay to continuously spam racial and other hateful slur words. Considering how much trouble it will get you in the real world, it should get you in just as much trouble in a video game. Just because it is happening in a video game, does not make it any less hurtful than in the real world. I'm honestly appalled at how some of you think this behavior is okay. And for like the 100th time, we cannot blacklist this person because he will just delete that sprout and make a new one, and start the spamming all over again. I would like to see more ideas on how to get the situation under control, vs the unnecessary bickering and "oh just ignore it lol it's just a video game" comments. Those of you that think this type of behavior is okay, should be getting temp bans from the forums, imho.

I never posted in the forums before and logged in to complain for the same thing and I just gladly realized there was a post about it already. My suggestion is to ban IP addresses. Obviously banning characters from free accounts is not working as the perpetrator/s can just create an infinite number of accounts to keep trolling and harassing people. SE needs to take this very seriously as for a lot of people it's their first experience in the game which can be soured and make them leave. Spam should be removed from the Novice Network. Allowing people to copy paste spam racist/homophobic slurs needs to be addressed if the game is to remain healthy.

If I remember correctly, can't you join Novice Network through the Smith NPCs? I know you get instantly added if you're a mentor but I could swear the Smith guy (who gives you the early training stuff) can add you also (perhaps only if you have sprout or returner status?).

Also the person might have separate service accounts. I doubt there's a real person in the shadows helping them, it's likely that they have more than one system/computer etc and are using that to enable this purile behavior.

This kind of thing is why I left NN long ago. No one was really using the channel as it was intended anyway. No excuse for this kind of behavior but yeah. :/

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

If I remember correctly, can't you join Novice Network through the Smith NPCs? I know you get instantly added if you're a mentor but I could swear the Smith guy (who gives you the early training stuff) can add you also (perhaps only if you have sprout or returner status?).

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I can say without a doubt that you don't automatically get added as a mentor. I've never been in NN, and I've been a mentor since shortly after they were added.

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Originally Posted by Fudgely

Honestly I doubt many of the mentors on this thread care about being banned from the ever so vaunted FF forums, given how this is most of our only posts here. The only reason this thread exists in the first place is to bring attention to the fact that we've been having this problem for a while now and how slow the Aether GM response has been in the hopes that maybe this gets sent to someone higher up. I'm also pretty sure it's not gonna encourage new trolls given the extreme lengths it takes to setup that many alts. But apparently we should just ignore the guy spamming racial slurs constantly since that's the new player introduction that the sprouts deserve right?

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What exactly do you want any single GM, or SE to do? They can ban the accounts that spam (which they probably are doing), or they can heavily restrict trial accounts in the future. There is also the option of going above and beyond just banning the account (IP bans, etc.), but that has already been discussed in this thread. This leaves them heavily restricting trial accounts, because of one person. Many of you seem to be in favor of this.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

What exactly do you want any single GM, or SE to do? They can ban the accounts that spam (which they probably are doing), or they can heavily restrict trial accounts in the future. There is also the option of going above and beyond just banning the account (IP bans, etc.), but that has already been discussed in this thread. This leaves them heavily restricting trial accounts, because of one person. Many of you seem to be in favor of this.

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We want the trolling to stop. I don't care how they do it, the trolling needed to end days ago.

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Originally Posted by Maria1693939

We want the trolling to stop. I don't care how they do it, the trolling needed to end days ago.

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It will never stop until this person gets bored, that's what a lot of you people seem to not understand.

Also, I forgot to add, the only actual restriction for trial accounts that has actually been suggested is to not be able to join the Novice Network. Really shows where some people's priorities are.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

Just because he's a vile person doesn't mean you should dismiss their mental illness if they have one.

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Plenty of people have mental illnesses and don't end up this way. Even if they all did, it isn't anyone else's responsibility to put up with it; or even try to help them. The implication that they are in any way shape or form, responsible for this type of person is negligent to exponentially more people's mental health.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Indeed. They are giving this person exactly what they want. They are crying for attention and getting it in droves. It could be blacklisted and ignored but that is to easy apparently.

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You're a genius, really. No one could've thought of blacklisting him but you (for the 100th time). The spammer doesn't have the extra braincell necessary to just make a new, not blacklisted character, and spam more on it. Thank you for outstanding, noteworthy critical thinking skills. Next time I forget how to breath I'll remember Reap00 will remind me to blacklist the spammer. If you suggest it again, I might remember next time to blacklist a character that probably comes into existence for all of 3 minutes before being deleted.

How about someone who sucks gets banned, permanently and loses all of their progress for being insane and racist in a network meant to help people? Is it possible you don't want that to happen?

Additionally, this guy would need to get to level cap to become a mentor again, assuming his main gets banned, no? Which I've already stated, but he can't do that on a free account either. How is this not enough of a deterrent? You think some closet schizo has like 50 copies of FFXIV and its expacs?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It will never stop until this person gets bored, that's what a lot of you people seem to not understand.

Also, I forgot to add, the only actual restriction for trial accounts that has actually been suggested is to not be able to join the Novice Network. Really shows where some people's priorities are.

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Plenty of people do not want trial accounts to have restrictions to novice network. That literally defeats the purpose of the novice network. Everyone just wants the GMs, SE or whoever is supposed to handle this sort of thing to stop being lazy and ban the person's main who is inviting his alts.

You want me to admit that I'd rather, out of spite, see him lose everything he has and have to build it from the ground up again, just to lose it once more if he's THAT determined to be a pain to everyone else? Because I will. I want to see him get banned. And you know what? He deserves it. We don't need to make nice and pretend to be forgiving to people like that. He's made it his personal mission to be a nuisance to everyone, and affects way more people than he helps. He shouldn't be allowed to play, period.

Honestly, just adding some kind of minor level/questing restriction to trial accounts before being able to join the NN would probably axe the problem.

IE, require them to finish the Hall of the Novice trials before they can join or some such.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Honestly, just adding some kind of minor level/questing restriction to trial accounts before being able to join the NN would probably axe the problem.

IE, require them to finish the Hall of the Novice trials before they can join or some such.

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I have like, 16 80s and I haven't even done the Hall of the Novice trials.

They could try legal action if this hurts their pocket enough.

You're free to agree to disagree with my stance on the matter. Though I do think it's a bit of a slippery slope to act as if there is only one way in which the problem in question could be dealt with.

I'd also note that nobody in this thread is stating that it's okay to post slurs. They're simply pointing out that those slurs are being posted to provoke a reaction and until the GM's step in, ignoring them is a good way to keep 'safe'.

Midgardsormr Novice Network mentor here chiming in to say that this guy is definitely a problem. No, blacklisting doesn't work. Kicking doesn't work. And, so far, reporting hasn't worked either.

It's easy to say 'just ignore him, blacklist him and move on!' when you're not the one afflicted by this trolling. You're blacklisting an alt that's just going to get deleted and replaced with a brand new character in about 10 minutes or less. Kicking doesn't work because the guy knows how to kick-evade, and even if you DO catch one alt, they can just hop on in another alt.

I wouldn't want more restrictions on novice network / free trial players as a result of this, but something MUST be done to the mentor who is doing this.

"Just Leave NN" is basically giving up, and also means that when they catch unsuspecting sprouts there would be less people to give said sprouts a debriefing on the troll and that's not a good impression you want on people who are new to the game.

And it's 5 seconds of inconvenience, but you have to take into account cumulative stress, and the fact that there ARE people who will be disturbed by the slurs and targeted harassment. We've had our fair share of sprouts going "geez, I'm going back to primal" or going "how do I leave this channel" thanks to the troll.

And, contrary to popular belief, while Novice Network has its troubles from time to time we DO try to be welcoming and helpful to newbies (at least on our world). Throwing shade at NN because 'lol it's nn it's full of burger crown mentors who just want bragging rights you deserve this' is a roundabout way to support the troll and might actually be part of their motivations: "It's bad anyways, might as well troll it". Please don't make the problem worse.

I've been a player since 2014 and I literally just joined the forums to complain about the same thing. SE should track the perpetrators by IP address. These accounts are created by a troll (or trolls) who have dozens of free accounts made just for this purpose. Create a 3 strike policy from the IP, then ban the IP completely, or upon opening an account SE could require some sort of id (could be a debit C or something) so these people are less "inclined" do it as they won't get away with it without consequence. Just my two gil.
Edit: Also,
1-put GMs to monitor the Novice Networks.
2-disable the option to copy paste and post 20 comments. This is easily done as many games don't let you spam in chats or reply too quickly.
3-Allow to report players for harassment by right clicking them. Currently the only option available is the GMT report, and to file a harassment report you have to go to the support desk which is a bit long and cumbersome and doesn't get much done.
4-to mitigate the issue, improvements have to be done at a both policy and development level.

It's really sad that such things happen in the novice network, this could really spoil the fun for a lot of players experiencing this on a daily basis. Just because a 1 person or a handful of people decides to spam the chat with vulgar / insulting messages.

I can totally understand that it is incredibly difficult to trace such an individual. Especially, since it appears like he's using a bot like application / script to create characters, enter the Novice Network, Logs off and repeats the process.

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Originally Posted by chrisfantasy

2-disable the option to copy paste and post 20 comments. This is easily done as many games don't let you spam in chats or reply too quickly.

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Outside of putting a GM on this "Full time", the above suggestion is the only thing i can think of that might limit the amount of messages a player can spam the chat with. But, i'd go even further by issuing a (temporary) ban on sending a message to a chat channel if 3 identical messages have been sent in quick succession.

Some of the existing chat channels already have such a limitation in place, but all chat channels should have this system in place. This would not solve the issue, but at least prevent a wall of text to be sent to the Novice Chat and alleviate the issue.

In addition to that, the player should automatically be flagged and sent to the GM's/Special Taskforce for further investigation. If a pattern can be found, based on text, similarities of the player name, assigned account name and IP-address, slam the ban hammer on them.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I can say without a doubt that you don't automatically get added as a mentor. I've never been in NN, and I've been a mentor since shortly after they were added.

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When I did the stuff to become mentor, I was put into NN or rather, it appeared on it's tab on my chat window. This was a few expansion ago actually so I don't know how it is now.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

When I did the stuff to become mentor, I was put into NN or rather, it appeared on it's tab on my chat window. This was a few expansion ago actually so I don't know how it is now.

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When I became a mentor, a small sprout icon button appeared beside the chat windows settings one that says Join Novice Network when I hover over it. I've never been in the network, and like I said, I've been a mentor since not long after the whole "program" started.

I think the biggest issue is the whole mentor system is just godsawful, and terribly made and this is a big crack of many. What they should do is completely rework the system to imho be a one on one system where you as a mentor, can go into a social party finder system that matches you with a single sprout looking for a mentor. So it is all voluntary.

Once they or you leave a party it forms for you two, you can reque if you wish to help someone else or not, basically think customer support type deal. You are offering help specially looking to help at that moment in time, and someone else is specially looking FOR said help. While it may seem limiting it would honestly work 100% better then it does right now where even when people do help, its still by an large a giant public chat room more then anything.

Or hell keep NN, but also add what im talking about for the people who are looking to help right there and then. I personally was so excited that I would in my mind get to help people who wanted it but NN was NOT how I imagined it'd be... It'd also make it easier to just ignore this guy if thats how the mentor system worked because you can just leave the party, block them and move on and their posts would only be seen by one person who can easily ignore them repeatedly.

Either way they need to figure how something with the whole mentor system because this dude shows its not really that well designed at all, and was poorly thought out. Road to hell is paved with good intentions after all.

Edit: Not that I have something against using NN to chat, I just personally kinda dreamed I'd get to mentor someone a bit more one on one or something and make a friend here or there.

If the community was allowed to police itself this wouldn't be a problem. Getting kicked from NN should be account wide, including sprout and mentor alts, and carry the risk of permanent exclusion. Getting kicked by 50 separate accounts should lead to a permanent account wide NN ban, because clearly the community doesn't want your contribution. Apply the same to RMT spammers and permanently silence them after enough reports.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

If the community was allowed to police itself this wouldn't be a problem. Getting kicked from NN should be account wide, including sprout and mentor alts, and carry the risk of permanent exclusion.

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Right.. You have got to be kidding me... Yeah, let's just make it even more of a clique. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Right.. You have got to be kidding me... Yeah, let's just make it even more of a clique. :rolleyes:

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How do you conduct yourself in game if you are worried about being kicked by 50 different individuals?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

How do you conduct yourself in game if you are worried about being kicked by 50 different individuals?

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I was referring to specifically the line I quoted. Getting kicked by 50 people is separate from what I quoted. The line I quoted refers to any kick being account wide, "including sprout and mentor alts".

But sure, I'll reply to that one too, I couldn't care less what the community does or doesn't "want". Unless they are breaking the ToS (As is the case outlined in this thread), a clique shouldn't decide anything. Rather, if they are breaking the ToS a GM should rightfully step in, NOT the community.

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Originally Posted by Xeia

Not a great look for new players in the channel that's supposed to welcome them, for sure.

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100%. I'm posting here to keep this relevant. SE Must deal with this more than RMT as it's ruining the experience for new players. I'm an old man who has been playing the game since 2014 and the harassment spam was never as bad.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It will never stop until this person gets bored, that's what a lot of you people seem to not understand.

Also, I forgot to add, the only actual restriction for trial accounts that has actually been suggested is to not be able to join the Novice Network. Really shows where some people's priorities are.

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yes it will. If they implement tools to stop people from spamming 20 messages in a row it will. Most online games have that implemented in their codes where spamming is not possible. You can put GMs to immediately suspend players etc. So in fact it can be stopped and SE is currently addressing the situation. We will likely see a change in a patch soon hopefully.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It will never stop until this person gets bored, that's what a lot of you people seem to not understand.

Also, I forgot to add, the only actual restriction for trial accounts that has actually been suggested is to not be able to join the Novice Network. Really shows where some people's priorities are.

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Yeah okay. What a joke. We've ignored him many times when he has come into NN to start his crap, and he still continues to do it. Ignoring him isn't solving the problem. That's just like sweeping it under the rug, and just as bad. Action needs to be taken.

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Originally Posted by chrisfantasy

yes it will. If they implement tools to stop people from spamming 20 messages in a row it will. Most online games have that implemented in their codes where spamming is not possible. You can put GMs to immediately suspend players etc. So in fact it can be stopped and SE is currently addressing the situation. We will likely see a change in a patch soon hopefully.

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Just what this game needs is an auto-ban system, or God forbid right click report (as was suggested before)! Good luck, on SE changing things! :)

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Originally Posted by SerenityChiba

Yeah okay. What a joke. We've ignored him many times when he has come into NN to start his crap, and he still continues to do it. Ignoring him isn't solving the problem. That's just like sweeping it under the rug, and just as bad. Action needs to be taken.

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Not gonna happen. Unless SE makes sweeping changes to the way they ban players, and or start restricting trial players. Live with it, or don't. Sorry. Not much else to say. I'd rather not have some troll set some precedent here.

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Originally Posted by Rinia

Seconding this to confirm that it's a major issue. Due to rules, I don't think there's a single piece of evidence that I personally have that can be posted to the forums, however. Almost every single piece contains vulgarities, slurs, etc. I've reported him at one point and at least according to word of mouth, know of at least ten others who have claimed to do the same. He's obviously abusing free trial features in order to do this, as it's always sprouts trolling (very obviously) in place of his main. (Though his main was the initial troll until he mysteriously disappeared for around a month), though now that they're back, they're back with a vengeance and attacking those who have kicked him in the past. At this point the only way for GMs to even deal with him would be an IP ban, and that's only if he hasn't been smart enough to use a VPN. Either way, posting in hopes somehow it helps visibility so the GMs can (hopefully) do something about it.

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This is why I'm so against free trials. I wish SE would do away with that feature. It serves no purpose. I mean, they don't even require a game purchase. You can just use the same downloaded files on a hundred different free trials.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

This is why I'm so against free trials. I wish SE would do away with that feature. It serves no purpose. I mean, they don't even require a game purchase. You can just use the same downloaded files on a hundred different free trials.

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Free trials really wouldn't be as much of an issue if SE actually made logical decisions. The fact that NN doesn't have the same spam filters as /shout or /yell is kind of absurd, trial players or not.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Just what this game needs is an auto-ban system, or God forbid right click report (as was suggested before)! Good luck, on SE changing things! :)

Not gonna happen. Unless SE makes sweeping changes to the way they ban players, and or start restricting trial players. Live with it, or don't. Sorry. Not much else to say. I'd rather not have some troll set some precedent here.

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"Live with it, or don't."

Are you kidding me? You're indirectly saying that his behavior is just something we are going to have to deal with, no matter what, whether we like it or not. I don't think so. THAT kind of extreme behavior he displays is NOT something that ANY of us should have to deal with. Just because it is being done in a video game, doesn't make it any less worse than if he were doing it in real life.

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Originally Posted by SerenityChiba

"Live with it, or don't."

Are you kidding me? You're indirectly saying that his behavior is just something we are going to have to deal with, no matter what, whether we like it or not. I don't think so. THAT kind of extreme behavior he displays is NOT something that ANY of us should have to deal with. Just because it is being done in a video game, doesn't make it any less worse than if he were doing it in real life.

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It's not extreme at all. You have got to be kidding me. It's literally just chat spam designed to make people angry, in this case offended. Have any of you ever actually been on the internet before?

Yes, live with it, or don't. Those are your only options. It is not me saying it's okay, it's me saying there is nothing YOU or anyone here can do about it. You can just keep reporting this person every time it happens, and hope for the best. That's it. The repercussions on this game if SE were to institute any of these proposed measures, OTHER than maybe a spam block, are not worth it. Spam block, which I would prefer to time somebody out instead of ban (suspension) - not everyone is spamming this kind of material. I think a chat timeout is enough for regular spam.

Just /blacklist that player.

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Originally Posted by Malia_Chan

Just /blacklist that player.

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Someone who clearly didn’t read thos topic.

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Originally Posted by Malia_Chan

Just /blacklist that player.

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blacklist is per character, not player

Are they still at it? I left the Novice Network a long time ago because I wasn't a mentor at the time and I didn't find anything particularly useful in it. I'm on Brynhildr, and I can't remember which Data Center that's on right now, I'm short circuiting. I find it funny that SE hasn't dealt with this troll yet, because from what I've read so far, the player has violated ToS in almost every way possible. Is it possible for SE to ban a whole IP from their game? Because that's what needs done with this person. The only thing I can think that might be slowing SE down on dealing with this is if they're investigating whether or not the person's account got hacked/stolen... but even then, does it really take that long for them to determine that?

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

Are they still at it? I left the Novice Network a long time ago because I wasn't a mentor at the time and I didn't find anything particularly useful in it. I'm on Brynhildr, and I can't remember which Data Center that's on right now, I'm short circuiting. I find it funny that SE hasn't dealt with this troll yet, because from what I've read so far, the player has violated ToS in almost every way possible. Is it possible for SE to ban a whole IP from their game? Because that's what needs done with this person. The only thing I can think that might be slowing SE down on dealing with this is if they're investigating whether or not the person's account got hacked/stolen... but even then, does it really take that long for them to determine that?

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it's stopped entirely, and you wouldn't have seen it since Brynhildr is Crystal