SE's inability to protect players from stalking/harassment

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

Again, this kinda thing, particularly from Magnedeus, is exactly whats wrong with the community and only validates my theory that people like her and my stalker dont need attention to keep going. It's pathetic.

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I have been reading this discussion for several days and I am very sorry that you are faced with stalking, although I can only judge this from your words. But a few rude comments from someone you will never meet are not the opinion of the entire community. Constructive ideas were also expressed here, including ideas on how to protect yourself with existing means and the idea of suggestions. This is actually a reasonable feedback.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

Mag really hasnt provided any positive feedback, just judgements with no actual substance besides her own beliefs and opinions, which are only relevant to my situation and not the thread- totally missing the point and trying to flip the situation.

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But they is not the whole community, so I would not equate the whole community with them. I think it's a good idea to switch to something constructive. Moreover, in addition to criticism, you also found support here.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

But they is not the whole community, so I would not equate the whole community with them. I think it's a good idea to switch to something constructive. Moreover, in addition to criticism, you also found support here.

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Yes, I have and I am thankful for that! I am equally as thankful for those who act foolish. Normally people would be upset by a lot of these posts against me, but I see them as an example and I just dismiss them for what they are. I expected negative feedback, and I can imagine that some of these people might be the same people who would likely abuse the current system. I cant say for sure, only speculate- but i wouldnt be surprised.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

I can imagine that some of these people might be the same people who would likely abuse the current system.

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To be honest, I don't see the connection. Not necessarily everyone who does not support your point of view or writes rude messages on the forum is a stalker in the game. I thank you for bringing up this topic, a working blacklist is really needed, but I would not judge the entire community by a few posts.

I've seen Yoshi-P's reasoning for why removing someone from your friendlist doesn't unfriend them. Okay, fine, but it'd be better if we had better tools to deal with disruptive people than just "well, if they see you've unfriended them they might get worse and we don't have a way to deal with "worse"."

We need tools to prevent people from coming into our homes that isn't a blanket "no one but me can enter". Blacklisted players should be prohibited from entering someone's personal home.

The eternal bonding stuff needs to be reworked badly. I had a friend who's EB partner ended up stalking them and used the ring to constantly drop in on them without their consent, and the ring continued to work even though the other person "divorced" them, and if a player gets divorced, there should be no reason they can continue to use the ring. She'd drop in and then yell at him for RPing with other female characters, and it was disruptive.

Basically, it's gotten to the point that because of the way SE has handled the friendlist/blacklist situation, I just don't feel comfortable friending people, because then I can never remove them. It's lead to some awkward uncomfortable situations, and that's a shame--the system shouldn't favor the feelings of a stalker, it should protect victims, and that's not where we're at.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

Yes, I have and I am thankful for that! I am equally as thankful for those who act foolish. Normally people would be upset by a lot of these posts against me, but I see them as an example and I just dismiss them for what they are. I expected negative feedback, and I can imagine that some of these people might be the same people who would likely abuse the current system. I cant say for sure, only speculate- but i wouldnt be surprised.

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I'll give you a suggestion, if you want yourself - and this thread - to be taken more seriously stick to discussing SE, and ways SE can improve their social features, or moderation in general. There is no purpose in lowering yourself to the level of what may be personal insults. Ignore it, and definitely don't post replies calling users out by name. That's for sure.

Not only would SE probably take your suggestions more seriously, but more readers would as well.

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Originally Posted by Shofie

I've seen Yoshi-P's reasoning for why removing someone from your friendlist doesn't unfriend them. Okay, fine, but it'd be better if we had better tools to deal with disruptive people than just "well, if they see you've unfriended them they might get worse and we don't have a way to deal with "worse"."

We need tools to prevent people from coming into our homes that isn't a blanket "no one but me can enter". Blacklisted players should be prohibited from entering someone's personal home.

The eternal bonding stuff needs to be reworked badly. I had a friend who's EB partner ended up stalking them and used the ring to constantly drop in on them without their consent, and the ring continued to work even though the other person "divorced" them, and if a player gets divorced, there should be no reason they can continue to use the ring. She'd drop in and then yell at him for RPing with other female characters, and it was disruptive.

Basically, it's gotten to the point that because of the way SE has handled the friendlist/blacklist situation, I just don't feel comfortable friending people, because then I can never remove them. It's lead to some awkward uncomfortable situations, and that's a shame--the system shouldn't favor the feelings of a stalker, it should protect victims, and that's not where we're at.

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Someone in another thread mentioned that SE could potentially send the divorced player (in this case, we will say a stalker attempting to use the ring) and return them to the chapel where an NPC can inform the player the bond has been broken and encourage them to instead look for someone new. I thought this was a really nice alternative to this kind of situation and still gives some kind of use out of the ring besides it just being a glamour item.

I agree that the blacklist should extend to all the alts of the account that received said blacklist. It would save a lot of time and effort.

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Originally Posted by rance-sama

I agree that the blacklist should extend to all the alts of the account that received said blacklist. It would save a lot of time and effort.

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It would also be good for blacklisting to be an option from a player name. The only two ways I know to blacklist another player come directly from an emote or something they have said in chat.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

It would also be good for blacklisting to be an option from a player name. The only two ways I know to blacklist another player come directly from an emote or something they have said in chat.

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There actually is a chat command. Or, was. It was /blist add First Last

Only, it broke when they added world visit. And I think still hasn't been fixed. Doing First Last@Server doesn't do anything either. I THINK <t> does, however, but again that requires you by the person. I'd assume you want the ability to without having to target them.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

There actually is a chat command. Or, was. It was /blist add First Last

Only, it broke when they added world visit. And I think still hasn't been fixed. Doing First Last@Server doesn't do anything either. I THINK <t> does, however, but again that requires you by the person. I'd assume you want the ability to without having to target them.

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As of right now, blacklisting a person seems pretty ineffective. I think they should definitely fix it in addition to adding more features.
I'm not an expert on how servers run, but I'm curious as to how hard it is to make blacklisted characters disappear entirely?
Maybe SE hasn't done a lot of these things because of the servers not being able to handle it?

Unfortunately, there really isn't a way to prevent communication in a decent way. I wish there was but it seems a moot point. Also transferring DC's to get away from someone (which I have done before) leaves you feeling like a fish out of water for a while.

Online games typically don't allow for players to be removed entirely from a screen because it could easily be abused. Imagine if, say, a popular streamer or influential member of a server's community had a disagreement with someone? They could easily nudge their followers to effectively 'cancel' that player and cause a significant number of people to not see or interact with them.

The issue with a lot of tools is they can and often will be exploited and abused by those seeking to cause drama/stalk others.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

As of right now, blacklisting a person seems pretty ineffective. I think they should definitely fix it in addition to adding more features.
I'm not an expert on how servers run, but I'm curious as to how hard it is to make blacklisted characters disappear entirely?
Maybe SE hasn't done a lot of these things because of the servers not being able to handle it?

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A friend of mine mentioned there's a mod to make blacklisted people vanish, so the game can.

Though, that's mods. And Square don't like mods (I swear if I get smacked just for mentioning such a thing exists)

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

(I swear if I get smacked just for mentioning such a thing exists)

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With the amount of bots destroying the economy, that Square Enix doesn't lift a finger to do anything about, I'd be surprised if you got in trouble for mentioning that a certain mod exists. You'd think that one of the most popular subscription based MMOs would use some of that money to, idk, work on that problem.. but you'd be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

This was a good read. Balmung truly is the Florida of FF14.

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Please don't insult us Floridians in that way... we have refined and cultivated our stupidity into a fine art or whine... I mean wine =P

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

A friend of mine mentioned there's a mod to make blacklisted people vanish, so the game can.

Though, that's mods. And Square don't like mods (I swear if I get smacked just for mentioning such a thing exists)

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As long as it isn't effecting actual game play, they have a don't-ask-don't-tell policy with mods.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

As long as it isn't effecting actual game play, they have a don't-ask-don't-tell policy with mods.

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What kind of crap policy is that? :x
Seems to be the answer for a lot of things in this game...

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

What kind of crap policy is that? :x
Seems to be the answer for a lot of things in this game...

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Yoshi-P has gone on record saying mods and third party tools are against ToS (this includes "gray-area" tools like ACT and voice chat apps). HOWEVER, the devs can't scan your computer for them. If you aren't using said mods and tools to break the game or do questionable behavior (posting lewd screenshots, harassing people, etc) they won't touch you.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

What kind of crap policy is that? :x
Seems to be the answer for a lot of things in this game...

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They don't even deal with obvious bots. Not even if they are selling from over 30 retainers, never leave their apartments, and are logged in and doing actions 24/7. Do you think they are going to bother with mods that only affect your gameplay? They couldn't care less as long as this game keeps being the cash cow that keeps Square Enix rolling in money.

Pointless drivel for 18 pages. BRAVO!

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

I'm against the harassment of support workers. I work in a support role and deal with "Karen-esque" behavior all the time. It infuriates me. Flooding the queues with reports over a nonsense issue should be a suspendable offense in my opinion. It has nothing to do with me advocating for "stalkers" or anything like that. There are actual issues that actually impact gameplay in a negative way, such as the serious bot problem this game has... and I can't help but feel that real problems get ignored because support is too busy dealing with nonsense tickets all day long.

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Your logic isnt good.

The person is asking for changes to the blacklist system.

Do you not comprehend?

It has nothing to do with sending tickets, or support, or all the nonsense you just said.

You completely missed the point. Its completely over your head.

If this person was able to blacklist the person properly, such as them being unable to use the search feature to find their location, they would not submit "100 tickets and harass support" come on, use a little bit of common sense here. Read what the person is saying.

If when you blacklist someone, it prevents them from searching you, or at the very least your location this wouldnt be an issue.

Going further, because people like to argue "well Square-Enix is a noob company, they have spaghetti code, they cant do complex things." Sure, lets pretend for 5 seconds this is the case. They can simply remove the location of all players from the search feature. This feature isnt even needed. This has no real function except to ... be used by a stalker or someone trying to do something strange. Its a mostly useless feature that is and has been exploited for such purposes as harassment. As seen here.

I could say and explain a million examples of how things could be changed or adjusted to work more efficiently, but the point I'm making here is you're saying she is "being a Karen" while completely ignoring the fact the blacklist system isnt very functional, and very easily worked around. Thats the point. If this point was addressed, there would be no support tickets and this thread wouldnt exist. Getting to the heart of the problem is the most effective route. Not banning a person for submitting a report. Thats nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Is that all you have? Pop words and insults?

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I don't tolerate simping terribly well. I'm sorry if I've offended you... though, I'm pretty sure it doesn't take much to do that.

Ask for changes to blacklisting all you want. Its easy and it only takes one or two reports. Under the same menu as you enter to report someone for harassment, you can submit a SUGGESTION. But the moment you send over 100 reports during a pandemic, I am going to call you out and no number of simps will make me change my mind about that.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

I don't tolerate simping terribly well. I'm sorry if I've offended you... though, I'm pretty sure it doesn't take much to do that.

Ask for changes to blacklisting all you want. Its easy and it only takes one or two reports. Under the same menu as you enter to report someone for harassment, you can submit a SUGGESTION. But the moment you send over 100 reports during a pandemic, I am going to call you out and no number of simps will make me change my mind about that.

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Still with the nonsense. Keep it up, and you'll prove yourself a shear waste of time.

I dont know this person, I dont post on their behalf, also, simp isnt even a word, you're literally using words that have been fabricated by young people for the purpose of only insulting someone you dont agree with. For someone with a low tolerance for respect and morality, you sure do act like you're some sort of saint protecting the support team. Bit of a black kettle and pot situation if I do say so myself. (Since you seem to be a fan of platitudes.)

I'm not offended, I'm calling you out for completely missing the point. This has been an on going issue, the failure to address the functionality of the blacklist systems, and this is the most recent on going thread, which is the purpose of my presence here.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Still with the nonsense. Keep it up, and you'll prove yourself a shear waste of time.

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If you have a problem with what I am saying, why not just blacklist me? Just like in game, you'll never have to hear from me again... or isn't that enough gor you?

Apparently my stalker can just make trial accounts to stalk me with now too. Seems like the only way to fix that would be for SE to stop offering trial accounts if people are going to abuse them in such a way. This is why we can't have nice things.

Does SE do IP bans or just account bans?
SE should be able to put two and two together via IP addresses, even if it is just a trial account?

AiUsagi I could suggest filing an actual police report to deal with your stalker. Online stalking/cyber bullying etc is increasingly taken more seriously lately. I do feel for you hope it does get addressed properly. Outside of that I think SE has decided this isn't something they care to address thus far.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

AiUsagi I could suggest filing an actual police report to deal with your stalker. Online stalking/cyber bullying etc is increasingly taken more seriously lately. I do feel for you hope it does get addressed properly. Outside of that I think SE has decided this isn't something they care to address thus far.

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Thank you! I said the exact same thing, but the police isn't an option to her for some weird reason.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

Does SE do IP bans or just account bans?
SE should be able to put two and two together via IP addresses, even if it is just a trial account?

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IP addresses were never a solution and are even less of a solution now people are using VPNs.

You're at the point you need to take this to law enforcement if it's so persistent.

If you do not have proof that that person is harassing you they will not do anything and not only from Square Enix it is in almost all games, in World of Warcraft Blizzard where the PVP Open World exists there was a lot of harassment to players. The only way that Blizzard acted with this is when the camping was prolonged and it was possible to show that that person was chasing you around all the maps with a character from the opposite faction.

The difference is that in other MMORPGs, harassing means not being able to play with your character due to PVP systems, harassing in this game allows you to continue playing normally. There are some fixes to the system but those fixes will not greatly avoid the harassment problems of the game, because changing these rules would open the door for any of us to be banned simply for having the bad luck of running into the same person every time.

I just wanted to add that the blacklist feature in this game is useless, like it's already been mentioned in the thread. The only thing it does (as far as I know) is block messages (and emotes, I suppose) from the person in question. I was so shocked the first time I blacklisted someone back when I was still new to the game then a day after got tagged with them in the same duty. When I blacklist someone, I want nothing to do with them. This person had harassed someone I care about and who was also with me in that duty. I didn't want this dear person to have to deal with this jerk or even see his name so soon after what had happened.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

My bad. I didn't know it was yet another troll. Hard to keep track these days :/
This said, the blacklist issue is real.

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It isn't. That's literally just another person with nothing better to do with their time than to continue to harass this thread, despite being rejected. They've said nothing constructive and have only judged my situation and personally deemed me a troll. They're pretty much a fine example of exactly what is wrong with this community.
Thank you for the feedback tho, it is important for SE to see that this is a real problem that needs to be taken care of. Players should have more control over their privacy.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

If you do not have proof that that person is harassing you they will not do anything and not only from Square Enix it is in almost all games, in World of Warcraft Blizzard where the PVP Open World exists there was a lot of harassment to players. The only way that Blizzard acted with this is when the camping was prolonged and it was possible to show that that person was chasing you around all the maps with a character from the opposite faction.

The difference is that in other MMORPGs, harassing means not being able to play with your character due to PVP systems, harassing in this game allows you to continue playing normally. There are some fixes to the system but those fixes will not greatly avoid the harassment problems of the game, because changing these rules would open the door for any of us to be banned simply for having the bad luck of running into the same person every time.

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A lot of my stalking has occured at my personal home. This player seeks me out via player search and comes directly to my FC. This isn't just petty stalking where we "happen" upon each other, though they have stalked me to other locations. I guess I don't understand how giving players more actions would get people banned? If I couldn't have been found through the player search, my stalker wouldn't have even known my FC location to bother me there. If we could blacklist a player and all information is removed, including the physical character, then it seems to me that this would be more beneficial for not only the player being harassed, but the GMs who have to deal with it too. I think if this game had more tools for players to use, then GMs would become last resort for once those tool have been utilized and seen ineffective. I'd think this would actually make it easier.

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Originally Posted by Eien713

My bad. I didn't know it was yet another troll. Hard to keep track these days :/
This said, the blacklist issue is real.

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The OP wants nothing more than someone to believe this troll story and someone who doesn't believe it to you is a waste of breath because they're not being constructive. It's not about being constructive about being honest and they're not being honest since many people (including myself) have picked apart the flaws in the story and she continues to deny it. People have given her possible solutions to the issues and yet she hasn't done any of them. You know why? Because she's trolling. Because anyone with some sense would have called the authorities on the matter, but she hasn't, and she won't. There is nothing more I hate in this game is a damn troll making up stuff in a forum for attention just because they know SE won't do a damn thing about it. The OP can continue to preach the thread with false BS if she wishes, but I'm telling you it's nothing but false crap.

I want nothing more than for SE to fix their obvious issues with the blacklist system, but your eyes are set on hate. I hope you can find something more productive to do with your time instead of trying, key word: trying, to bring other people down.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

Does SE do IP bans or just account bans?
SE should be able to put two and two together via IP addresses, even if it is just a trial account?

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I don't think you're a troll, so I'll bite.

Most game companies do not do IP bans unless it is very extreme. Not only do many people use VPNs, but certain places share the same IP address. For example, the entire country of Qatar uses the same IP address. Ban it and you ban the entire country. Schools/university campuses (dorms lol) will also use the same IP address.

Moreover, if they are using the commonly used support desk software that a lot of other companies use, sending in multiple tickets is worthless as they will auto collapse new tickets into the very first one you made. Sending more tickets unless you have updated information will do nothing more than waste your time.

In addition to this, the SE support likely has no direct connection to the main SE office and yelling at the support staff does nothing. It's akin to yelling at the Subway employee that their sandwiches are too expensive. Even if you're right (and you are - the blacklist function DOES need updating), they can't change it and you're just making their minimum wage job more miserable and likely earing a lot of bad rap within the support office.

In this situation, the police ARE an option and a good one at that. I have personally dealt with police with a past online stalker of mine and they were nothing but nice.

If we want to change how the blacklist works, then the "leave a suggestion" option looks very reasonable. However, the support desk also says that suggestions can be posted on the official FF XIV general discussion forums. So I don't see anything wrong with what the OP writes here about the problems they faced. The only thing that, perhaps, it would be worth to issue as a suggestion with a description of a specific situation.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I don't think you're a troll, so I'll bite.

Most game companies do not do IP bans unless it is very extreme. Not only do many people use VPNs, but certain places share the same IP address. For example, the entire country of Qatar uses the same IP address. Ban it and you ban the entire country. Schools/university campuses (dorms lol) will also use the same IP address.

Moreover, if they are using the commonly used support desk software that a lot of other companies use, sending in multiple tickets is worthless as they will auto collapse new tickets into the very first one you made. Sending more tickets unless you have updated information will do nothing more than waste your time.

In addition to this, the SE support likely has no direct connection to the main SE office and yelling at the support staff does nothing. It's akin to yelling at the Subway employee that their sandwiches are too expensive. Even if you're right (and you are - the blacklist function DOES need updating), they can't change it and you're just making their minimum wage job more miserable and likely earing a lot of bad rap within the support office.

In this situation, the police ARE an option and a good one at that. I have personally dealt with police with a past online stalker of mine and they were nothing but nice.

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I haven't said much about what actions Ive taken regarding my stalker (anymore than what Ive already chosen to share) because, 1. My stalker can see this forum (& could already be commenting for all I know) 2. This is advice for everyone facing stalking and harassment & it is my hope to bring about awareness to this issue for developers to do something about for all players, not just me.

I can understand what you're getting at about the IP addresses- it makes a lot of sense. So, I guess my answer is: No. They can't. x.x

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Originally Posted by RajNish

If we want to change how the blacklist works, then the "leave a suggestion" option looks very reasonable. However, the support desk also says that suggestions can be posted on the official FF XIV general discussion forums. So I don't see anything wrong with what the OP writes here about the problems they faced. The only thing that, perhaps, it would be worth to issue as a suggestion with a description of a specific situation.

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I do not want this thread to be directed towards MY specific issue. SE has my information regarding my stalker, and they're really the only ones who need it, aside from maybe, the police.
The point of this thread is to raise awareness and bring up ideas that might be helpful. To ask questions regarding the problems with the blacklist system & to get SE's attention to provide better means of handling online stalking and harassment. I just mentioned it, but again, my stalker can see this thread and comment, as easily as anyone else, and Id really like to keep some actions that Ive taken regarding my stalker, private. If I could, I would call this person, and the other person involved, out by their names, but I cannot for obvious reasons regarding ToS.
I do not care to discuss my stalker, I care to discuss how people can prevent stalking and harassment in the first place.