Suspended for Otter Nonsense

Holy carp, one whole page just got nuked for some reason! We were up to 17 pages, now there's only 16.

They're just remaining true to the Norse mythology that's so prevalent in the roots of the whole Final Fantasy series.

Loki had a run-in with an otter once, and look at what came of that! A whole series of bizarre events, including a dude getting turned into a dragon, that culminated in a great hero being murdered by his brother-in-law over some shiny trinkets.

Otters may look cute, but you do not want to take them lightly.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

First off, I wouldn't worry too much about a permaban. In forums at least, those happen so rarely they are basically a myth.

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Dualgunner.
Cassandra_Solidor.
VanillexFang.
Sir_Rawrz.
Lorgana.
Selli.
Dervy.

These are all names I can think of off of the top of my head of people who've been permabanned; of them I know five, and talk to them frequently on Discord. Dualgunner was banned for a meme, Sir_Rawrz was banned for light profanity, Dervy was banned for numbercrunching on the forums (he said the "P" word), Vanille made the mistake of posting a screencap of FFLogs on the OF, Selli was banned for a ridiculously silly reason.

Someone said it's a three-strike system. For some it is, for most of the people I know it's two-strike, and it's a permanent record. Dualgunner's bans were two years apart from one another, and Cassandra's bans were four years apart from one another.

The otter everyone got tempbanned for? That's gonna be there forever. If most of these people ever see another ban, that otter will add to their likelihood to make it permaban.

Since I'm sitting here at work bored out of my gourd, I figured I post about some ideas I've had to possibly improve transparency:

1: If a moderator has to delete a post, then they should have to list the reason why. It doesn't have to be anything detailed, just something as simple as 'this post violated X portion of the ToS'.

2: If a post is reported or deleted for any reason then the poster should be notified either by email or through a pop-up text the next time they log into the forums. This doesn't have to be anything fancy either. A simple 'one or more of your posts have been flagged/removed' should do.

3: If it seems like a thread is about to take a turn to The Otter Limits or has already reached that point and moderator action is required, whether it's to lock the thread or potentially ban members, then a warning should be issued on said thread and the participance would have *at most* 24 hours to either abandon the thread or course correct before action is taken. The contents of the warning can be left up to the moderator.

I don't know how feasible any of these are, but it's just some things I've been thinking about since starting this thread.

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Originally Posted by Joven

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When I was a moderator on that large fan site a few years ago, we would issue an official thread warning with something along the lines of, "remain on topic", "further action may be taken". Depending on severity. we would issue official warnings to users, that actually would be a mark on their account, but were just a warning so not an actual strike against that specific user's account. These warnings would include why they are receiving this warning. Users had an actual appeal process similar to a tribunal. I think I said this before yesterday. This was a fan site, with volunteers. I think the lack of warnings for even minor "violations" you get bans that, as users have said, can lead to your account being terminated is really too much.

I don't think it would be feasible, considering the amount of posts get deleted on a daily basis, for them to issue a reason, not to mention the thread would probably be littered with these. However, I do agree with official warnings, and actual interaction is what is sorely needed. Even a moderator just stepping in and saying "stay on topic" would be enough to keep the discussion in line, in my opinion. The fact that there is no interaction, and even when you get banned there is still no interaction, even in the "appeal" process there is no interaction. All that is said is this has been "reviewed as correct" or something along those lines.

Another thing we used to do was edit out portions of a users post with a small thing like, again, "stay on topic", "refrain from personal attacks", but if the bulk of the content was on topic, and added to the discussion we would leave it. If any portion of a user's post on this forum is deemed "delete worthy" even if the bulk of said post is on-topic and adds to the discussion, I think it gets entirely deleted.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

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I just figured that if a moderator had to give a reply for every post they deleted then they'd take more notice of what they were actually deleting and determine if that post was reeeeeaaally worth the effort to delete it in the first place. It just seems like they're deleting the posts to avoid directly addressing the problem and if the post was flagged by someone out of spite then that wouldn't be fair to the one who posted it. There's been at least one post deleted from here that I know of and I have no idea why. Everyone on here has been polite and on topic the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I just figured that if a moderator had to give a reply for every post they deleted then they'd take more notice of what they were actually deleting and determine if that post was reeeeeaaally worth deleting in the first place. It just seems like they're deleting the posts to avoid directly addressing the problem and if the post was flagged by someone out of spite then that wouldn't be fair to the one who posted it. There's been at least one post deleted from here that I know of and I have no idea why. Everyone on here has been polite and on topic the whole time.

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In a perfect world, giving a manual reason for a post's deletion would be a great thing. I do not disagree with that, but considering the carpet-bombings that happen, I just do not think it is feasible. In a perfect world, I would like to see deletions lessened, and edits happen instead. Using a swear word as an example means an automatic deletion (and ban), even if you included 6 paragraphs of a quality post.

Keep this in mind:
Posting content with the intention of criticizing either Square Enix staff or specific individuals.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

In a perfect world, giving a manual reason for a post's deletion would be a great thing. I do not disagree with that, but considering the carpet-bombings that happen, I just do not think it is feasible. In a perfect world, I would like to see deletions lessened, and edits happen instead. Using a swear word as an example means an automatic deletion, even if you included 6 paragraphs of a quality post.

Keep this in mind:
Posting content with the intention of criticizing either Square Enix staff or specific individuals.

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Sorry, I haven't had much sleep today and I tend to get a little too serious about things when I'm tired. Thanks for keeping me in check :).

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Keep this in mind:
Posting content with the intention of criticizing either Square Enix staff or specific individuals.

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Note: I'm not arguing whether that's in the ToS or not or anything, just sort of venting incredulity with the fact it is in the ToS.

I personally think that's the biggest joke on the ToS. Why have official forums if critique is bannable?

Sure, "critique the game not the individual" and I can see why they'd have a notion like that.

I should be able to defend myself by saying "I'm not criticizing the moderating team or anyone on it, just the policies that the moderation team follows." but there is no real appeal process (they tell you there's one, but more often than not your appeal is directed to the person who banned you, and ofc they're gonna say the punishment is correct. That's if they don't just hit you with a boilerplate response, which of the people I mentioned above, I've seen three of them get boilerplates) so I know that defending myself like that would fall on deaf ears.

Professional internet janitors have killed any form of message board or forum.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Note: I'm not arguing whether that's in the ToS or not or anything, just sort of venting incredulity with the fact it is in the ToS.

I personally think that's the biggest joke on the ToS. Why have official forums if critique is bannable?

Sure, "critique the game not the individual" and I can see why they'd have a notion like that.

I should be able to defend myself by saying "I'm not criticizing the moderating team or anyone on it, just the policies that the moderation team follows." but there is no real appeal process (they tell you there's one, but more often than not your appeal is directed to the person who banned you, and ofc they're gonna say the punishment is correct. That's if they don't just hit you with a boilerplate response, which of the people I mentioned above, I've seen three of them get boilerplates) so I know that defending myself like that would fall on deaf ears.

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I've been banned twice, trust me I know what you mean. I have studied the ToS several times, and have come to the conclusion that anything not positive is literally bannable, at the sole discretion of the mod, in my opinion. At the very end the ToS includes:

Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

In so many words, my interpretation of this line is, anything is bannable. What do you consider "inappropriate", and what does the next person consider equally "inappropriate"?

These are the lines of the ToS that I think can (and is) broadly interpreted, and leads to bans. Considering the context of my last ban for reference:

Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.

You can be banned for simply making a claim against another user, it doesn't matter how severe said claim is. My suggestion is, to make sure you don't get misinterpreted, include "in my opinion", "I think".

Use of inappropriate or aggressive language.

You don't actually have to swear, aggressive can mean a lot of things, stay positive!

Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.

How broad of an interpretation can you take for that you think?

Posting seeking to damage or disparage Square Enix, the forum, FINAL FANTASY XIV, or others.

Again, in other words, anything negative can apply here.

Posting content with the intention of criticizing either Square Enix staff or specific individuals.

MUST criticize only the idea.

And to finish this off, I assume this is what the otter posters were hit by:

Posting content that does not follow the theme of the category or thread.
Posting content that deviates from topics concerning FINAL FANTASY XIV.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Use of inappropriate or aggressive language.

You don't actually have to swear, aggressive can mean a lot of things, stay positive!

Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.

How broad of an interpretation can you take for that you think?

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Congrats on surviving two bans. Dual says he's jealous.

These two are the ToS guidelines Dualgunner was permabanned for. Literally for a three letter word that refers to either a donkey, or the human posterior.

You're right, nobody has to swear. Dual certainly could have avoided doing so and probably wouldn't have been banned. That said, a permanent ban for an instance of swearing, especially when the only other infraction was two years ago for something entirely different? Seems like absolute overkill to me.

EDIT: not saying you'd disagree, and I'll admit bias. Dual is a very close friend of mine.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

EDIT: not saying you'd disagree, and I'll admit bias. Dual is a very close friend of mine.

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I do not disagree. I disagree with the way I think the ToS can be interpreted, I disagree with what I think is a seeming lack of moderator interaction (silent mass deletions one-minute, straight up bans the next), I disagree with how I think some users may or may not weaponize reports, I disagree with the severity a ToS violation may be handled.

With the way the ToS can (and is, in my opinion) interpreted it completely removes the option of discourse, and certainly makes many users nervous to post here. If one side feels like it they can claim any one of the ToS lines I posted above, I think they can get you banned. You might feel confident, but trust me, if it is negative it is breaking the ToS. There is no consistency, because in my opinion, it is so broadly interpreted. That is why, in my opinion, a "review" of any ToS violation may be a farce, because it can be interpreted as a true violation, and in the end, a justified ban.

If enough people report your post, the forum moderators will look at it (they also seem to look at posts in threads that blow up). All you need to do is be come off too firmly and/or include swearing and/or seem like your antagonizing someone and you will probably get slapped with "being a negative effect on the community".

The biggest flaw with the forum moderation is that it's not very consistent--which isn't surprising considering how many posts are published daily...but there are a lot of incredibly minor things that have gotten some people suspensions/bans while others haven't gotten any punishment at all. This makes it really difficult to gauge how you can interact with other uses and what you can say, especially in a confrontational manor (such as a debate or disagreement).

I'm going to use swearing as an example because it would be the easiest thing to fix and it's something that is incredibly hit or miss in terms of punishment.

Say you're in the massive Duty Finder thread and you see someone post about how an anonymous player in their party was being a 'female dog'. It's there, the whole word. This person's post gets 10 Likes and people agree that their situation was awful and that anonymous player was indeed a 'female dog'. A few months later you see a thread praising a villain in the MSQ for being a complex and interesting character. You write a long and civil reply respectfully disagreeing with the OP. However you got carried away and the post is long so you decide to leave a TL;DR at the bottom. And so you say, "TL;DR: I think he/she has potential, however right now we don't know enough about them and they just come off as a 'female dog' for the sake of being a 'female dog'." Some people agree with your post and some people disagree with it. Some people don't even read your post and just see the TL;DR. People from all sides decide to report you. After a couple days you are met with a notice of a 10-day suspension and the reason being for strong, vulgar language that is creating a negative effect on the community. Why did you get in trouble for using a word when talking about a fictional character, but someone else used it when describing another person and received no punishment? Is it because you said it more than once? Is it because you used it in a TL;DR section, so that made people more drawn to it? Was it the context? Is swearing allowed or is it not allowed? There's just no way to tell because the rule isn't followed consistently.

This is something that could be easily fixed with a few filters/catches. For example, the swears prevent your post from being published (similar to how going over the character limit works) and you are met with a warning like, "Vulgar language is against our ToS. Please remove/replace any swears contained within your post. Trying to bypass the filter and keep these words will result in a strike on your forum account." This stops the problem before it happens and makes it clear what their tolerance is. Or there could be a system in place that blocks the word(s) after the post is made. This would leave the site cleaner and leave it up to the poster to decide how/if they want to change what they said after the post is published. If they're reported, the emphasis should be more-so on how they used the censored words rather than the actual words themselves.

The way swearing is viewed on the forums versus how it's viewed in-game seems to differ quite a lot. In both cases, if you swear directly at someone for the purpose of attacking them, you're in trouble. In-game, context matters and if you say "That was [censored] crazy!" you're probably fine on that part even if you get reported for something else. On the forums, I think you're not supposed to swear at all and saying "That was [censored] crazy!" will get you in trouble (if you're reported/a GM sees your post). Again, this is followed inconsistently that it's hard to tell, but I'm inclined to believe the forums wants to have a zero tolerance for swearing because your post is searchable (both on the site and via Google) and is a lot more permanent than saying something in-game.

There is honestly so much more I could get into about this...there are a lot of things that puzzle me and aren't very clear. But I have gone on long enough and I'd like to hope this critique won't result in myself getting suspended if I leave it where it is now.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I've been banned twice, trust me I know what you mean. I have studied the ToS several times, and have come to the conclusion that anything not positive is literally bannable, at the sole discretion of the mod, in my opinion. At the very end the ToS includes:

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Oh don’t worry they ban positive comments too while leaving up threads that call people morons #ottergate

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

I also got temporary banned for posting the otter pictures.

They stated it was off-topic.

Which baffles me that they would ban so many people over that, instead of the OP who was trash talking his FC in not one but two threads and used the whole cancer/autism thing as a cover up.

The mods on this forum are a complete joke.

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He apparently got (temp?)banned for derailing my otter suggestion thread apparently but his post stealth baiting his old FC and calling them morons is still up

During the live letter, Yoshi, and do an extent Ms. Translator said "Pain in the [OMG CENSORED]" on stream. Had this been the forums, oops guess that's an offense.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Dualgunner.
Cassandra_Solidor.
VanillexFang.
Sir_Rawrz.
Lorgana.
Selli.
Dervy.

These are all names I can think of off of the top of my head of people who've been permabanned; of them I know five, and talk to them frequently on Discord. Dualgunner was banned for a meme, Sir_Rawrz was banned for light profanity, Dervy was banned for numbercrunching on the forums (he said the "P" word), Vanille made the mistake of posting a screencap of FFLogs on the OF, Selli was banned for a ridiculously silly reason.

Someone said it's a three-strike system. For some it is, for most of the people I know it's two-strike, and it's a permanent record. Dualgunner's bans were two years apart from one another, and Cassandra's bans were four years apart from one another.

The otter everyone got tempbanned for? That's gonna be there forever. If most of these people ever see another ban, that otter will add to their likelihood to make it permaban.

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Mhm, I did. But I was also told by Hyo about that. With that being said: I stand corrected.

It's worse than I thought.

So I've been doing a lot of thinking on the drive home from work and I've decided that I've had enough of tip-toeing around this issue. I've already stated in a previous post that I'm willing to take a perma-ban for this so I need to back that up. I lit this fuse when I started this thread and now it's time to watch it burn. I'm done being polite.

I'm just gonna come out and call this for what it is: pathetic. When people are too afraid to say what they think due phantom moderators and an ephemeral Terms of Service then you know something isn't right. We shouldn't have to worry about having our posts sniped or being shadow banned due to a broken system where anyone can simply point a finger and make someone disappear. Where people can get banned for a simple slip-up while others blatantly disregard everything and face no punishment. To top it all off we only get silence and even silenced when asking for clarification or for even questioning the motives of the moderators.

That's all we really wanted: clarification.Transparency. A chance to correct our mistakes before any serious penalties can be incurred and we lose our ability to post on here, but I guess swinging the Banhammer is easier than actually moderating. We can't even get a canned response on here because I guess we aren't even important enough for that despite the fact that we're essentially paying to use this service...

I get that there are a lot of threads on here and keeping them up can be a nightmare, but at the same time we need some way to know that someone out there is actually listening to us. Instead it feels like we're just screaming into the void.

If anyone is interested, before I get the Orbital Banhammer, my Discord is Joven#3737. I'm terrible at starting conversations, but may chime in every so often in others.

Also, I apologize if anyone gets caught in the blowback of this.


Edit: Always remember #Ottergate

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Originally Posted by Joven

Talking about abusing the report system and perma-bans reminded me of a user on here that I came across about two years ago. I encountered them in a crazy post they started about giving summoners animations similar to Pokémon trainers throwing a Poké-ball when they summoned their Egi. Every reply was hostile, calling them an idiot, saying they were going to report them and hoped they got banned.

I commented that I've never seen so much hostility towards anybody on these forums before and was told that the OP had a 'history of spreading negativity'. I made a point to go through some of the OP's post history and none of their posts were negative in any way. Silly and pointless yes, but not negative. They were never rude, insulting or used any profanity or derogatory language. It seemed like people were only mad at them because of all the silly threads they started. I replied later that if they didn't want those types of threads on the forums then they should just ignore them and that they themselves were the ones perpetuating the negativity. Some of the posters actually turned on me, calling me an idiot for 'defending a troll' and essentially proving my point.

Due to all the, in my opinion, unwarranted hostility from a group of users towards this person they eventually earned a perma-ban. I think this is a good example of the report feature being abused just because someone wasn't liked.

I would rather have a dozen pointlessly silly threads than a dozen pointless threads covering the same topics all the time.

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HOLY SH.... I REMEMBER THAT LOL. Damn I feel bad for that person :c They got rushed :C.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...97/078/591.jpg

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

HOLY SH.... I REMEMBER THAT LOL. Damn I feel bad for that person :c They got rushed :C.

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Yeah, they didn't deserve all that hate just for trying to make funny threads.

I'd be careful.

I am at my cousins house, he tried to get a second appeal and wanted transcripts of why he was banned the exact reasons in detail to point out why he was perma banned from forums because he is dyslexic and has a hard time understanding some things.

they basically told him no second reviews and they aren't going to give him transcripts of his bans or even explain.

I kinda remember some of his post and that's why he wanted to see some transcripts because he feels they were bias versus him, since recently he's been noticing poster's saying some of the stuff he was banned for and no action was put against them.

Now he really think's that the reason was he put a SNK signature when SE and SNK were having a lawsuit over comics he believe that his ban was over that due to that his signature was being removed everytime a temp ban happened then they had to give a excuse why he was banned which were small things everyone post every day like the word LAZY <--- cmon that is jacked up he see's people directing it at others and posting pictures also same as he did no action done.

nothing wrong with snk vs capcom signature either not much he can do now he got final answer but watch out to others.

just be careful all cause I remember what he was banned for it was very tiny things even asking for skull armor and banned the person below for asking for macho gear trust me it happened.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Dualgunner.
Cassandra_Solidor.
VanillexFang.
Sir_Rawrz.
Lorgana.
Selli.
Dervy.

These are all names I can think of off of the top of my head of people who've been permabanned; of them I know five, and talk to them frequently on Discord. Dualgunner was banned for a meme, Sir_Rawrz was banned for light profanity, Dervy was banned for numbercrunching on the forums (he said the "P" word), Vanille made the mistake of posting a screencap of FFLogs on the OF, Selli was banned for a ridiculously silly reason.

Someone said it's a three-strike system. For some it is, for most of the people I know it's two-strike, and it's a permanent record. Dualgunner's bans were two years apart from one another, and Cassandra's bans were four years apart from one another.

The otter everyone got tempbanned for? That's gonna be there forever. If most of these people ever see another ban, that otter will add to their likelihood to make it permaban.

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Hmmm. Did these users get an in-game ban or just a forum ban? I'm used to the old school days where the forums were a separate beast (with a separate login even). But these seem to be tied to accounts, which I suppose makes them exclusive (you can make a Square Enix account that is separate from the game on the SE site--or you used to be able to) but also a pain if you get banned. I stand corrected, but I still wouldn't be afraid to speak my mind because I'd rather be struck mute than to be too afraid to speak at all. Would I ask for an appeal? Certainly. After some time had passed. But in the end, so long as my game doesn't suffer I that's the most important part imo. But yeah. Still a bit on the messed up side. :\

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Hmmm. Did these users get an in-game ban or just a forum ban? I'm used to the old school days where the forums were a separate beast (with a separate login even). But these seem to be tied to accounts, which I suppose makes them exclusive (you can make a Square Enix account that is separate from the game on the SE site--or you used to be able to) but also a pain if you get banned. I stand corrected, but I still wouldn't be afraid to speak my mind because I'd rather be struck mute than to be too afraid to speak at all. Would I ask for an appeal? Certainly. After some time had passed. But in the end, so long as my game doesn't suffer I that's the most important part imo. But yeah. Still a bit on the messed up side. :\

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That is another thing, yes they are connected, so if you need help with a problem you cannot come and ask tech support for help, I think you get locked out of forum contest also, whats funny is if you don't pay sub 14 days after your last log in you cannot post anymore till you re-sub also you cannot get un banned they will tell you no even if you try to appeal it and if you ask for the reason why they'll tell you no even if others are posting what you were banned for and guess what they don't give you 2 ban appeals they tell you basically no, so why even have ban appeals? if they just tell you no funny right?

I don't even think they look over the issue cause if they can't provide you with evidence to your ban then why are you even banned? That to me is weird.

I usually go over cousins house and he put in appeal they would not give him a reason why he was banned wouldn't even tell him the reason he got one email a long time ago he said but that's it saying he said word L*zy he wanted to know why he was perma banned they told him they don't have to give him that.

but then like I said then why is he banned if they don't have a reason just seems weird to me. cousin said forget it because seems like he's being swept under rug because a GM messed up and they don't want to unban or don't know how to on forums.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Hmmm. Did these users get an in-game ban or just a forum ban? I'm used to the old school days where the forums were a separate beast (with a separate login even). But these seem to be tied to accounts, which I suppose makes them exclusive (you can make a Square Enix account that is separate from the game on the SE site--or you used to be able to) but also a pain if you get banned. I stand corrected, but I still wouldn't be afraid to speak my mind because I'd rather be struck mute than to be too afraid to speak at all. Would I ask for an appeal? Certainly. After some time had passed. But in the end, so long as my game doesn't suffer I that's the most important part imo. But yeah. Still a bit on the messed up side. :\

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Even though you need an active subscription to post on the forums, I think they're considered separate accounts. So if you get banned from the forums you can still play. Though I would think that getting banned from here would sour your feelings towards the game since you can no longer give feedback through the official means. Which is why I feel like these forums need to be handled more delicately when it comes to suspensions and bans.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Oh, I apologize I wasn't saying other people should just sit back and accept what happened. Just stating that's how I'm personally taking it in regards to what happened with me. Apologies it's late and I'm a little loopy from lack of sleep, so that was my bad that that intention did not come across. My bad. D:

The whole thing was definitely confusing though, and that's one of the reasons I feel a mod post on the matter would have helped stem the sudden ban wave. While you can interpret a mass cull of otter memes to mean that the mods aren't happy with them, as is what happened at one point, if someone doesn't notice that and there's no official word on what's happening you're just left floundering in the dark with no way of knowing what to expect. The mods on this forum almost never pop in to big kerfuffles like that to actually tell people what they're doing wrong, and while often that might be okay, in this case it seems to have lead to a good chunk of the people who posted in that thread receiving temporary bans. Bans for actions that were perfectly acceptable in other threads at that. Which leads me to wonder if a report threshold was hit or some other invisible trip for automated flagging.

What we really need is transparency going forward. No more guess work as to what the mods are thinking. It seems like the mods assumed everyone who was banned knew what they were doing, but given the posts here I'd say most of us are just grasping at straws trying to put the whole picture together. That's not effective modding. All that does is make people leery of posting at all when the ban is lifted and just as likely to re-offend because they didn't get the full picture they were owed either before the ban was brought down as a warning, or after. Which is why a warning is usually pretty essential in modding, especially when it's on this kind of scale.

I dunno I respect the work the mods have to do as I'm a moderator myself in other places. Yet I really have to question a lot of their methods when we have incidences like this were a good handful or more people were banned and all only have small clues as to why.

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^^^^^ THIS! Agree 100 percent.

I used to be the moderator on one of the official NFL forums and it was a tough job. But all warnings and bans had to have reasons given and they were allowed to discuss the situation. Also that action was the final option, first threads were locked and offensive posts deleted with warnings given in the actual thread so that anyone who went back to it knew that it had been shut down and why.

I give props to anyone who steps up to be a mod. It is a hard job. But it is important to have fair, consistent and equitable moderation across the board. I know that most people do not survive a second temporary ban. It is like it is automatic that they are kicked forever, despite their standing in the community or even if they were banned unfairly. Sometimes all it takes if for a group of players with a trollish mentality to mass together and decide to report posts from a certain player that they don’t like. The person could be someone who has stood up to them or disagreed with them in debates. Even if the person never crossed a line themselves (all the while being attacked), they will be the one who gets banned if enough of the “group” decide to start reporting the player, even if the reports are garbage.

I could list a lot of examples of very unfair and extremely inconsistent moderation when it comes to bans. People can post cursing all the time and yet I know someone personally who was banned for putting wingdings ($&#*) in their post instead of using any bad words. ??? The worst part is there is no recourse. You only get form letters from SE and can never talk to a person. Plus, the permanent bans are never lifted. The forum is the only place to enter official contests, report bugs, provide feedback and participate in the questions for the producer.

There are several veteran, long-standing players who have been with the game since the beta or even before, who were very well respected members of the forum community with hundreds/thousands of posts (many upvoted or liked numerous times), and they now can no longer participate due to circumstances like I described above. They are forced to go to less savory places if they want to have somewhere to talk about the game with others. Something REALLY needs to change. I truly hope that the team is reading this thread with an open mind. I hope they understand that we do appreciate the efforts and work they do. I, for one, simply think that the whole process could be vastly improved.

Thanks for listening,
Hina

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I think you get locked out of forum contest

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You mean those contests that have had the same payout rewards since ARR? Buu. I get it though. I used to live on the Sony forums. They used to have separate forums for actual games released on their platforms and that's where I stayed (they still might). The only reason I started posting here was because there was a global outage and I was trying to help troubleshoot.

If they're not careful, this place could end up like the 'official' FF15 forums. Which is the saddest place on gamer earth. T-T

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Hmmm. Did these users get an in-game ban or just a forum ban? I'm used to the old school days where the forums were a separate beast (with a separate login even). But these seem to be tied to accounts, which I suppose makes them exclusive (you can make a Square Enix account that is separate from the game on the SE site--or you used to be able to) but also a pain if you get banned. I stand corrected, but I still wouldn't be afraid to speak my mind because I'd rather be struck mute than to be too afraid to speak at all. Would I ask for an appeal? Certainly. After some time had passed. But in the end, so long as my game doesn't suffer I that's the most important part imo. But yeah. Still a bit on the messed up side. :\

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Thankfully no. They're all still very active within the game so far as I know. Dual and I just finished the ShB campaign about an hour ago actually.

All Japanese online and gaming communities both in-game and out of it love having heavy-handed moderating compared to western games.

That's why I almost never use my 3DS and Switch online. This is the only Japanese online game I play. Not interested in the babysitting nature of Japanese online moderation.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

All Japanese online and gaming communities both in-game and out of it love having heavy-handed moderating compared to western games.

That's why I almost never use my 3DS and Switch online. This is the only Japanese online game I play. Not interested in the babysitting nature of Japanese online moderation.

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Well here is what I think about that its a miss representation of people in the west like those new rules they added, because of others acting differently they based it on that and basically bunched everyone with people who think differently. basically stereotyped us. then forced to be okay on the views of a group of people when we aren't the same as them.

as I said before do not put me in the same category, when they said well people are changing so we will change based on that, well they are assuming we all have changed and that we should be based around the rules of those people and its wrong.

I see it like this what they did.

its just like in FFXI the RMT were hunting NM's because they were worth gil, then instead of handling the real issue they turned the NM's item drops to Rare/ex where they were worth no money at all taking it out on innocent players trying to make gil to play the game, which it was hard enough to farm money in the first place lol

so they bunched us together instead of handling it they take a easy route.

no matter how much we ask them to change it we get told no or they can't or ignore.

same thing with reports appeals, it will always be no, they won't listen and ignore betcha nobody has ever been un banned making appeals not even worth having.

though it makes me wonder do they treat everyone the same way Ethnicity on banning because you know they do or they wouldn't say china has different rules to their game if they didn't.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

All Japanese online and gaming communities both in-game and out of it love having heavy-handed moderating compared to western games.

That's why I almost never use my 3DS and Switch online. This is the only Japanese online game I play. Not interested in the babysitting nature of Japanese online moderation.

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I would rather they be heavy handed so long as they're consistent, not ninja editing and sporatic, spontaneous suspensions/bans without warning.

Most forums seem to becoming this way....really it seems to be usually driven by this crazy culture of hyper sensitivity and PC culture. You must conform, think and accept or you're removed. Free speech for the win friends!

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Originally Posted by OhnoozeMyToes

Most forums seem to becoming this way....really it seems to be usually driven by this crazy culture of hyper sensitivity and PC culture. You must confirm, think and accept or you're removed. Free speech for the win friends!

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You are 100% correct its what I was basically saying about bunching us up with people who cannot handle criticism.

its the old saying why dish it out if you cant handle it. Usually they are the ones to toss first stone, then once they've baited you into the thread and you reply its as if they cannot handle what you have said but expected you to handle what they said and reports you.

Instead of the GM's locking or deleting thread or going after the original person who started it they ban and let the guy who baited people into the mess go. the forums are becoming allazkham where if they couldn't handle your comment they thumbs you down and or erased comments to hide it.

then once FFXH forums were made people just bounced because of the power trip, its no different here because people have the power to report and if GM cannot use their own intuition on the issue then I don't know why they are Gm's that poses a problem.

cause if later someone makes a really cool forums nobody is going to want to stick around here, cause then you just have the same poster groups who report all the time for weird things nobody wants that tagged to account.

I am at my cousins right now he said he never said lazy but someone who replied to him and reported him for mentioning FFXI in a thread a while back.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-want../page11

his comments were these and he was banned for it.

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The lot of you who keep talking about how long it takes, listen here I camped a NM on FFXI 24 hours just for brown belt item versus several other people and if I didn't get it I would camp even longer.

I know you all have tried FFXI what do you want it just to be handed to you without any work done haha I think SE cut you a break if you ask me.

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I see nothing wrong with this comment either lol this is what he was banned for? this is while the other guy claimed my cousin said Lazy and im positive he reported him for it and my cousin was banned he's telling me that's the truth.

he only remembers that he got temp banned and he was confused because he never said it.


This is the type of stuff I am talking about and like my cousin is saying no when he appealed it he was swept under the rug because he thinks that a GM messed up and didn't want to look bad.

though cousin says he just gives up completely on trying to get un banned he played since ffxi since the start even moved to FFXIV after last FFXI expansion he just thinks he even called out GM and wanted to know why apparently he was upset he kept getting banned for really weird stuff like he wanted answers but nobody helped him out so like hes telling me he just gave up completely nothing he can do about it nobody will help him that he's posting on reddit now but left out of community stuff.

said he had a computer issue but couldn't even get help from the forums he had to figure it out on himself. Id let him post on mine but its against the rules I don't feel like getting banned.


He said happy 4th and that he only wants people to be aware just because you act correctly don't get baited into threads that look like trouble that was the mistake he did and he paid for it that if it seems harmless its probably not if they are fighting.

don't get into the middle of something that might just get you in trouble even if your post is innocent.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

All in all, I probably won’t stop posting here entirely—but I am extremely hesitant to continue posting as of writing this, and I can understand it when some say that they feel the same. When some actions go punished but others that could be objectively considered more worse aren’t, it really makes you sit back and think about things. I’d like to be able to continue to give feedback, but previously mentioned, my desire to post here is honestly diluted quite a bit. I will probably be a bit more less active compared to normal for a while.

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I am very much in the same boat. I like posting here and I like reading from and asking questions of folks who have a lot more knowledge about the game and picking up tips and stuff. Sometimes I have a civil discussion that I really like and others I 'respectfully' butt heads with someone. But, past events and the overall tone the forums have taken, have just sucked the desire to post out of me. (Save for mild shite posting and snarky retorts.) I have written up entire multi paragraph replies to some topics in the healers thread, topics in general discussion and a couple in the tank threads, but then scraped them because I either didn't want to deal with the aftermath or risk my post being seen as "Not OK" and getting removed...sometimes I take the dive and often very quickly regret it as the other side gets VERY aggressive...so, yeah.

I still distinctly remember in one thread a long while back, where either the OP or someone agreeing with them, was basically attacking me and shoving words down my throat and I eventually, very sternly put my foot down and stood my ground...my posts where I defended myself got removed, but their constant attack posts, were left up. That...really shot my desire to post here in the foot. I actually not long after that, took a hiatus from the forums. I didn't feel safe posting here if me defending myself is apparently not OK but some of the pretty horrendous behaviors by some groups of posters is A-OK.

Even now I feel afraid to post this...

So, I do feel ya there Hyo.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I am very much in the same boat. I like posting here and I like reading from and asking questions of folks who have a lot more knowledge about the game and picking up tips and stuff. Sometimes I have a civil discussion that I really like and others I 'respectfully' butt heads with someone. But, past events and the overall tone the forums have taken, have just sucked the desire to post out of me. (Save for mild shite posting and snarky retorts.) I have written up entire multi paragraph replies to some topics in the healers thread, topics in general discussion and a couple in the tank threads, but then scraped them because I either didn't want to deal with the aftermath or risk my post being seen as "Not OK" and getting removed...sometimes I take the dive and often very quickly regret it as the other side gets VERY aggressive...so, yeah.

I still distinctly remember in one thread a long while back, where either the OP or someone agreeing with them, was basically attacking me and shoving words down my throat and I eventually, very sternly put my foot down and stood my ground...my posts where I defended myself got removed, but their constant attack posts, were left up. That...really shot my desire to post here in the foot. I actually not long after that, took a hiatus from the forums. I didn't feel safe posting here if me defending myself is apparently not OK but some of the pretty horrendous behaviors by some groups of posters is A-OK.

Even now I feel afraid to post this...

So, I do feel ya there Hyo.

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I really don't understand their methodology for deleting posts either. It seems to be based solely on whether the post gets reported or not. On this very thread I've had a post removed where I politely warned someone that if they continued to harass people and try to derail the thread that I would report them, yet the post I made calling out the mods for shady practices is still there.

Maybe this will help. Forum Rules

All you really have to do is be decent to each other.

^ Not really. That's how the rules make it sound but it's all dependent on how the mod sees things. If they are one of the hyper sensitive types then you may get a ban for something ridiculous. Unfortunately these types are really common these days.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Maybe this will help. Forum Rules

All you really have to do is be decent to each other.

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Everyone here is well aware of the forum guidelines. However, as many people have already stated on here: it doesn't matter whether you're decent towards others and play by the rules, you can still have your posts removed and be suspended/banned for whatever reason without warning while others who blatantly violate said guidelines go unpunished.