whats wrong with wow?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

the system is great maybe best ever in MMO history

but the design is horrible, maybe worst in the world in my opinion

for me or everyone who more like japanese style design, WoW is really bad...

compare between this:
http://fangirlisms.com/wp-content/up...characters.jpg

and this:
http://www.wowcharacters.org/wowcharacters.jpg


how could you expect japanese or european people to accept these ugly character design?

I'm not offense, but the fact is Incredible Hulk, Juggernaut, Capt. America and another walking muscle are created for american while Dante (Devil May Cry), Solid Snake, James Bond are created for japanese and european market

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I'm sorry, but your comparison there completely and utterly fails because you are comparing concept art to in-game graphics. If you want to make a fair comparison, then compare concept art to concept art, and graphics to graphics.

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Originally Posted by DarkRain

This is all that needs to be said about WoW( cauton F-bombs are droped here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmy7Ze18NY

But then again this was out also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDO2R...eature=related

Now things have slowly gotten better but i still agree 100% with the 1st video and that is really all that needs to be said

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That first video was made by a biased and butthurt FFXI fanboy, and was posted on YouTube several months before FFXIV was even released. Honestly, how could anyone claim FFXIV was more entertaining than WoW when FFXIV hadn't even been released yet? The answer: they couldn't, at least not without being a fanboy about it.

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Originally Posted by Luluna

Yeh never said it was bad, i have never played it so i can't judge...just never appealed to me. ^^

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I inferred you were ignoratn I didnt mean that. >< Sorry.

Just so tired of wow is terrible cux xyz. How about just saying game isnt for us(luna and myself) much easier ya know? grrrr

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Originally Posted by Theon

Wow is the reason this genre is slowly dying,everyone tries to copy wow with wow clones. (WAR,AoC,Lotro,Rift,SWTOR).

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Slowly dying? What are you talking about? Before WoW, the entire MMO genre was nothing but a tiny niche market that only appealed to a very small demographic. Now thanks to WoW, MMORPGs have become mainstream, and are more popular than ever.

Granted, the MMO market has indeed become saturated with WoW-clones, but that certainly doesn't mean the genre is dying, especially when you stop and take the time to consider that there are more MMOs on the market today than there have ever been before.

Well there's plenty of depth and more importantly plenty of very good storytelling in XI. I think that's what people expect from XIV as well. Currently the storyline is non-existent.

From what I hear from my wow addicted friends the story doesn't play that big of a role in wow nor does it have a cutscene heavy approach like XI. There's nothing wrong with that it's just that I tend to not play games that don't have a strong reason to fight for.

Like I said currently I feel the same way about XIV. I have no idea what's going on in Eorzea but generally NOTHING seems to be happening.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Slowly dying? What are you talking about? Before WoW, the entire MMO genre was nothing but a tiny niche market that only appealed to a very small demographic. Now thanks to WoW, MMORPGs have become mainstream, and are more popular than ever.

Granted, the MMO market has indeed become saturated with WoW-clones, but that certainly doesn't mean the genre is dying, especially when you stop and take the time to consider that there are more MMOs on the market today than there have ever been before.

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More like the genre is slowly stagnating, not because of Wow either.

Its prevelant if you take away wow and just FFXI. FFXIV need to have FFXI insert feature here, the sad fact is most ppl just want FFXI with new graphics. People don't want change or anything new, it's why a game like RIFT does so well. The game isn't special but it's exactly the same as people are used to. Human imperfections are what cause these problems.

For me?

The graphics.

They aren't bad, but something about the style quite literally makes me ill x.x I tried playing it and had to quit after a half hour because the graphics were making me feel .. well frankly I felt like I'd just stumbled off a teacup ride, at least in my stomach. Yeah, I don't get on well with World of Warcraft XD

That said, though, in a more general sense? Its success. It's just.. too successful, to the point it's obliterated the industry's ability to handle teething problems in new games and caused everyone to start following it. Ragnarök Online had the same effect for a while, actually, back when it was the big thing of its time - every MMORPG out of Korea for a while was all but an RO clone with increasingly three dimensional graphics, and the vast majority of free to play MMOs - the short burn ones, cynically made with the expectation of being shut down inside a year or three the moment they start losing players, hopefully having turned a profit in the meanwhile - that come out of that region still insist on copying its system design philosophy.

So.. yeah, WoW has a problem inherent with all overly-successful MMORPGs. It stopped causing new games to grow ideas from its strong points, and instead started making developers feel they had to play to its tune if they wanted anything even resembling a profit. The only difference between WoW's success and that of RO, is it isn't just greed now so much as fear of the monolith that motivates the project directors to copy. Thank God we're finally starting to pull away from that..

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

For me?

The graphics.

They aren't bad, but something about the style quite literally makes me ill x.x I tried playing it and had to quit after a half hour because the graphics were making me feel .. well frankly I felt like I'd just stumbled off a teacup ride, at least in my stomach. Yeah, I don't get on well with World of Warcraft XD

That said, though, in a more general sense? Its success. It's just.. too successful, to the point its obliterated the industry's ability to handle teething problems in new games and caused everyone to start following it. Ragnarök Online had the same effect for a while, actually, back when it was the big thing of its time - every MMO out of Korea for a while was all but an RO clone with increasingly three dimensional graphics, and the vast majority of free to play, short burn MMOs that come out of that region still insist on copying its system design philosophy.

So.. yeah, WoW has a problem inherent with all overly-successful MMORPGs. It stopped causing new games to grow ideas from its strong points, and instead started making developers feel they had to play to its tune if they wanted anything even resembling a profit. Thank God we're finally starting to pull away from that..

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I'd question if we are, any game that cones out over the next few years diff will suffer the "It's not fun what do I do fate". Ignore FF14. I have a feelin grhe only one left standing will be rift and wow, sad but true. people dont want new or innovative, which makes me think tera and gw2 will be small time compared.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

Oh please. Are you talking about wow in FF14 forum?
Anyway there is nothing wrong in wow, simply someone prefer coke, comeone pepsi, someone orange juice and someone beer.
What I don't like in wow is you are running as a hamster in your wheel alone for all the game. The group content is only the instances, raid and some (rare) quest.
Do you like playing alone? I like too, but not in a so called "MMO".
Just think, why does people say "the real game in wow starts when you are at level cap"?

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I second that :)

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

For me?

The graphics.

They aren't bad, but something about the style quite literally makes me ill x.x I tried playing it and had to quit after a half hour because the graphics were making me feel .. well frankly I felt like I'd just stumbled off a teacup ride, at least in my stomach. Yeah, I don't get on well with World of Warcraft XD

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Personally, I like WoW's graphics because they have that same kind of whimsical charm that was present not only in Warcraft III, but also in FFVII and FFIX on the PS1, and FFIII on the Nintendo DS. Now obviously the technology behind WoW's graphics is far superior to any of those games, but the same type of aesthetic style is there, and it's a style that I've come to love. <3

Fantasy Earth Zero also had that same cute, stylized type of graphics, but unfortunately FEZ was a terrible game. :X

Cute graphics, though.

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

There is nothing wrong with WoW, the problem is with people.

People think that by putting down a Westernized MMO, it makes their choice of a Eastern MMO more valid. It just makes them feel better about themselves. Or that by putting down a Popular MMO it makes their choice of a less popular more valid.

It about people taking sides and the "Team mentality". Wow is fine game. It doesnt have to be one or the other.

You see the same thing is Republican/Democrat, Muslim/Christian, Any place you can find a rivalry youll find people adamant about putting down the other.

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Very well said, the team mentality doens't progress the debate on what is wrong with WoW or what WoW has that works that can help FFXIV. Just becuase WoW or FFXI are different from FFXIV does not mean that they didn't have systems that were well thought out and well planned and FFXIV can learn from.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Applying your same limits to other people is rather flawed logic. The fact that you don't manage doesn't necessarily mean others don't.

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Abriael I keep getting the feeling you have never tried new content in WoW upon release, and I don't mean like 2 months after it was release, I mean like the first 3 weeks of release. I can guarentee you that you can do a 10 man the first few times and not have everyone paying attention on boss fights and winning. Wrath was a broken expansion and BLizzard acknowledges it but the other three inceptions of the game were challenging with Cata being the most challenging end game content yet. If you think you can breeze through it in a cavalier fashion your just wrong! there is no negotiating that fact, you are just spouting false comments and inflamitory comments about a game you dislike for no valid reason.

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Originally Posted by Linnear

you are just spouting false comments and inflamitory comments about a game you dislike for no valid reason.

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Doesn't surprise me. Abriael is one of the biggest SE/FFXIV fanboys I've seen on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Personally, I like WoW's graphics because they have that same kind of whimsical charm that was present not only in Warcraft III, but also in FFVII and FFIX on the PS1, and FFIII on the Nintendo DS. Now obviously the technology behind WoW's graphics is far superior to any of those games, but the same type of aesthetic style is there, and it's a style that I've come to love. <3

Fantasy Earth Zero also had that same cute, stylized type of graphics, but unfortunately FEZ was a terrible game. :X

Cute graphics, though.

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Oh, I'm sure there are people love it to bits XD Honestly I admire WoW, in its way, for holding onto a definitive style whilst simultaneously creating a game playable on computers that pre-date its launch by several years. I just.. can't play it for those same graphics o.o I don't even dislike them, I just get ill looking at them XD

Although that said I love FFXIV's graphics and graphics style to bits. Admittedly the low-end optimisation needs a look at, but visually it has a wonderfully coherent style and feel.

.. Getting off-topic, will quiet down now. x.x

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Originally Posted by Punxsutawney

Might be easier to ask, in what ways is FF11 easier than WoW, would actually be doable without writing a 40 page write-up.
Almost every aspect of FF11 is harder than WoW, if you don't believe me, you have never played WoW or you have never played FF11, one of the 2. Until they nerfed CoP, there was nothing in WoW that even compared to the difficulty of just a set of missions in 1 of FF11's expansions.

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Punx your right about the Prommy missions being the most interesting thing that was in FFXI, level caped regions and boss fights so you could enjoy the content at various levels of character development and it made lower-mid ranged gear interesting and colorful. As successfull as the prommy missions were and how much I wish FFXIV had more of prommys characteristics, including the grind for animas to kill boses for missions etc, SE didn't continue down that path for complexity. When Sea first came out and oyu had to do the missions to get there it was great but they stoped that in teh next expansions.

WoW on the other hand released new end game content outside of expansions all the time, every installment of wow had 3-4 major content updates that tried to push the envelop a little farther and try new boss mechanics. FFXI tried to keep up with einherjar, salvage and nyzul but none of these areas with teh exception of salvage was relitivly challenging or dynamic because the combat system was clunky and slow to initiate, and no casting while moving, and limited healing mechanics etc which all limited the elaborate boss battles that WoW had. Terms like Hard and Easy seem to be confusing people, so if your responding to this can you try giving me examples (outside of Promym and salvage) where XI required a variety of jobs doing a variety of things to succeed? Also please try not to give me BLM sleeping mobs in dyna as an example that is the most basic game mechanic possible, and doing over and over for a couple of hours is NOT cordinated, versatile combat.

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Originally Posted by Theon

You again?

Just go back to wow.

And yes,FFXI was 547 times harder than wow,in every way imaginable.

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Theon please do the rest of the forum a favor and post something usefull for a change. This is not helping the conversation or answer the forum question.

lol he never posted anything useful, maybe he had a dream that FFXI was 547 times harder.

like how he had a dream about open world pvp server
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...0125#post40125

I could never get past the cartoony polygon graphics. pass.

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Abriael I keep getting the feeling you have never tried new content in WoW upon release, and I don't mean like 2 months after it was release, I mean like the first 3 weeks of release. I can guarentee you that you can do a 10 man the first few times and not have everyone paying attention on boss fights and winning. Wrath was a broken expansion and BLizzard acknowledges it but the other three inceptions of the game were challenging with Cata being the most challenging end game content yet. If you think you can breeze through it in a cavalier fashion your just wrong! there is no negotiating that fact, you are just spouting false comments and inflamitory comments about a game you dislike for no valid reason.

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Translation from the above: "if you disagree with me and have a different experience than me you're just wrong and lie!".

Please. You're entirely entitled to worship any game you like, but you don't need to justify it to us by trying to make it look more challenging than it is.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Translation from the above: "if you disagree with me and have a different experience than me you're just wrong and lie!".

Please. You're entirely entitled to worship any game you like, but you don't need to justify it to us by trying to make it look more challenging than it is.

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Abriael, what your saying is just not corrent, your making grand statements that you have no first hand experience in, anyone who played high end content in WoW knows your full of it. If you go through something after it is on farm is not the same as going through it on hard mode during release. Your "claimed" experiences is a false representation of reality. It is the equivalent of saying you ran CoP for the first time without animas on release and oneshot every fight in the mission chain in the first day it was out. It is just not correct.

Outside of CoP WoW has examples of it being more challenging, myself and others have pointed this out in numerous posts, but people like abriael and others dismiss these statements without specificis. Can we have some truthfull examples of why you have your particular position?

I've played WoW on and off for about 5 months total pre- and post-Burning Crusade(never cared to give it a go post-Lich King or Cataclysm). I've been a fan of Warcraft, though admittedly not as much as Final Fantasy, since I played the original back in the mid-90's('94 I think), so I'm hardly an authority on WoW as I just have past experience to go on.

From my own personal experience, I can say that while WoW did several things that FFXI definitely did not(such as streamlining questing and offering rewards you cared about), the game had too many hiccups for me to really get involved. For one, within the streamlining and abundance of quest content all the way 'til at least lvl.45(which is when I retired my rogue for good), I found a nasty side-effect to my playing: I never felt the need to interact with another player at all, and thus the world felt very much barren at all times. It also didn't help that thanks to the lower than dirt system reqs and habit of dishing out rewards and xp for every little thing, as well as the game's subject matter itself that it pretty much attracted the lowest common denominator of intelligent life on the internet(not a statement against the entire community), and as such I usually regretted trying to interact with the people I DID see anyway.

I'm big on world aesthetics. In order for me to really get into a game, it needs to hook me with great visual direction, graphics, and music. I need to be able to log on and say "man, this world really gets to me". I didn't mind WoW's visual style all that much, being that it's just an extension of Warcraft III's own style, which is much more humorous in nature. If you want to mobs turning into hapless cartoon sheep and see goblins acting stupid and running eachother off the road(which is my only knowledge about content in Cataclysm), then this is the game for you. It isn't however the kind of experience I'd want to be playing all the time. The trend of using bits of what to me is uninspired "western fantasy filler" music on differing intervals also doesn't do much to alleviate my aforementioned "dead world" issue. Admittedly this comes from my predominantly console-based history, but I need to "feel" an emotion when I walk into a place, like walking into Coerthas in FFXIV or Xarcabard and Kazham in FFXI. Hell, I can't wait to ride a chocobo in FFXIV simply because of the theme, which has a total "wild west frontiersman" feel to it.

This one is a bit strange, but in many MMOs(including WoW), I never really appreciated the enemy encounter system. It always just felt like "here's a random mob, now start poking at it until it falls down". Thanks to the encounter system of FFXI, which emulates the encounters in other FF games as best it can in that the camera closes in on the target and there's an instanced battle theme, I feel much more involved than I did playing Granado Espada, WoW, Guild Wars or any other MMO I've also played. Another huge draw to me, again due to my console history, is the lack of controller support for WoW. There are plenty of valid arguments as to why this is, but as Sigmund Freud once said, "the mind knows nothing of the workings of neurons", and objective arguments hardly have any place in the subjective. I just feel better using a controller. In line with that I just find that the user interface that while functional, doesn't look particularly attractive, and is rather dull to me.

I can't comment on high-end content or guild stuff simply because I was never able to get into that stuff, as the mileage I got was enough for me to say I didn't enjoy it, but that isn't to say that WoW is a terrible game. It's a successful game in its own right that caters to its audience(an audience that I personally don't want much to do with). Personally, I wish Warcraft would go back to its roots in Real-time Strategy, but since Blizzard has their perpetual money printing device, that's probably not happening for a long while. In fact, I'm willing to bet that WoW's success is going to have a negative impact on their new MMO(codenamed "Titan"), but that's a post for another thread.

Final Verdict: Different strokes for different folks.

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Abriael, what your saying is just not corrent, your making grand statements that you have no first hand experience in, anyone who played high end content in WoW knows your full of it. If you go through something after it is on farm is not the same as going through it on hard mode during release. Your "claimed" experiences is a false representation of reality. It is the equivalent of saying you ran CoP for the first time without animas on release and oneshot every fight in the mission chain in the first day it was out. It is just not correct.

Outside of CoP WoW is more challenging.

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Unfortunately for you, something isn't "false" just because you claim it so. Everything is relatively challenging when first experienced (both because you don't really know what to do, and because you actually want to experience it), that's the obvious between the obvious.
The person I was responding to quite obviously wasn't talking about "first time" encounters (I really would like to see him/her playing even just something as easy as Dynamis or any similar encounter in any other MMORPG for the first time without paying attention, he/she would be kicked out of the linkshell/guild in a split second).

WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG, and every MMORPG has content that's relatively challenging the first couple times you try it, and then turns to farm mode, because AI encounters are repeatitive by nature. WoW is no different, and the support of crutches like aggro meters and similar (because you need the game to tell you when your aggro is weak, lol) make it even easier than many others.

i experienced FFXI for 6 years and WoW for 2 years.

i can tell with a clear head WoW is harder than FFXI.
Yes CoP is hard but its not an instances or events, its 1time fight thing, you cant consider that as a content.

dont even starts with AV and PW, nobody was able to kill that til they use wall of justice on AV.. or until SE toned it down and people KC it down (there is no real strat here), then SE buffed it again and it become unkilledable again.

PW was plain stupid, SE had to toned it down because media attacked them for being unhealthy for gamers because of the 18hours straight fight.

this isnt 'hard' its cruel.


Vrtra is probably one of the most challenging for me before KC zerg become popular.

*all of this was during 75cap, i quit before they raised cap*

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yes CoP is hard but its not an instances or events, its 1time fight thing, you cant consider that as a content.

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So one-time content isn't content now? Now, that's a funny statement mate. You seem to think that only encounters you can farm are "content". :D

So I guess most of the quests that wow (and other MMOs) features aren't "content" as well? Since you can do them only once?

On the other hand Guildleves are "content" because you can do them over and over?

Now, ain't this awesome? SE gave us a game so full of "content"!

Sure, if you say it's a content.. i doubt half of people would do CoP if it didnt have Sea Access as reward.. the rewards that sea offers is what drives people to go through CoP.

and are you going to ignore whatever i wrote ?

also, the only content that is good and very dynamic was Salvage.
but, allas isnt instances very WoW-like? isnt abyssea pretty much spoonfeeding? i never did abyssea, but i have heard words on how you can go 75-90 in like 10hours? godamn that is on the same level on WoW-level-pace if not faster lol.

Majority loves spoodfeeding and easy ride, that is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Sure, if you say it's a content.. i doubt half of people would do CoP if it didnt have Sea Access as reward.. the rewards that sea offers is what drives people to go through CoP.

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Actually COP has a great story, and that's an awesome reward in itself. I couldn't care less of the rewards. Quite a lot of people loved FFXI for it's stories.

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but, allas isnt instances very WoW-like?

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Ahem, you might want to be made aware of the fact that Blizzard didn't invent instances. Actually FFXI used instances before WoW was even released. DAOC introduced instances pretty much at the same time.

who cares about who invented what and when. we only care about if it is fun.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Unfortunately for you, something isn't "false" just because you claim it so. Everything is relatively challenging when first experienced (both because you don't really know what to do, and because you actually want to experience it), that's the obvious between the obvious.
The person I was responding to quite obviously wasn't talking about "first time" encounters (I really would like to see him/her playing even just something as easy as Dynamis or any similar encounter in any other MMORPG for the first time without paying attention, he/she would be kicked out of the linkshell/guild in a split second).

WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG, and every MMORPG has content that's relatively challenging the first couple times you try it, and then turns to farm mode, because AI encounters are repeatitive by nature. WoW is no different, and the support of crutches like aggro meters and similar (because you need the game to tell you when your aggro is weak, lol) make it even easier than many others.

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Abriael I am going to try to help you with something here. When you say "WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG" What example do you have? try quantifying or even qualifying your answer for a change.

Your comment on Aggro mods, is actually a decient one but it is midgiving. Aggro mods haven't been used years by top tier guilds and I personally never had one or needed one. Yet it is a crutch that helps less hardcore players see more content. This was commonly used becuase people which had previously completed the content and had the gear from it where redoing the content with people were undergeared and could pull aggro based on gear seperation, this happened a lot in BC and that is when these mods starting comming out.

I dont' necessarly think that aggro mods were a bad thing in the context there were initially created and I don't think they make the game easier for the people try to push the game. Players who were more hardcore could go and do content and experience the full depth of the encounters. People who got there latter coudl get help from people who did it earlier, but the gear differential was too great and aggro became hard to balance if you tank was fresh to content trying to hold aggro vs higher geared and mabey even skilled players.

Congradulations you actually used an actual verifyable fact see how this actually starts a conversation?

Now with this your options are

1 Either post an intelligabe retort with examples,
2 now aggrue that your comments about ease were meant for low-mid range level (old) content, which I wont' argue becuase that is the nature of a game that progresses.
3 Flame randomly
4 refuse to reply

I am hoping for either of the first two, but I will leave you room to go at this as you see appropiate.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Actually COP has a great story, and that's an awesome reward in itself. I couldn't care less of the rewards. Quite a lot of people loved FFXI for it's stories.

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i would read a book if i want great story, there are alot of games out there with a very great storylines, but no one really reads them because most just dont care about the story and spam enters, for myself, i play games to enjoy the gameplay and nice story is just a plus.

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hem, you might want to be made aware of the fact that Blizzard didn't invent instances. Actually FFXI used instances before WoW was even released. DAOC introduced instances pretty much at the same time.

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exactly!! yays!! omg, now please educate half of the user here.. because aggro icons, instances, and jumping doesnt make you WoW-clone..

edit: also "!" mark for quests!

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

exactly!! yays!! omg, now please educate half of the user here.. because aggro icons, instances, and jumping doesnt make you WoW-clone..

edit: also "!" mark for quests!

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Amen brother, WoW clone is a pretty rediculous argument. Thinking like that, how would ANY new games ever come out, since there has already been one that was an FPS, RPG, platform, ect??!?

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Abriael I am going to try to help you with something here. When you say "WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG" What example do you have? try quantifying or even qualifying your answer for a change.

Your comment on Aggro mods, is actually a decient one but it is midgiving. Aggro mods haven't been used years by top tier guilds and I personally never had one or needed one. Yet it is a crutch that helps less hardcore players see more content. This was commonly used becuase people which had previously completed the content and had the gear from it where redoing the content with people were undergeared and could pull aggro based on gear seperation, this happened a lot in BC and that is when these mods starting comming out.

I dont' necessarly think that aggro mods were a bad thing in the context there were initially created and I don't think they make the game easier for the people try to push the game. Players who were more hardcore could go and do content and experience the full depth of the encounters. People who got there latter coudl get help from people who did it earlier, but the gear differential was too great and aggro became hard to balance if you tank was fresh to content trying to hold aggro vs higher geared and mabey even skilled players.

Congradulations you actually used an actual verifyable fact see how this actually starts a conversation?

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Actually I don't see where your comments about aggro mods not being used comes from, considering that blizzard had to actually legitimate them by designing encounters specifically around their use (bad choice, they should have just banned them).

Maybe your personal guild doesn't use them (or maybe people just say that they don't), but that doesn't mean that they aren't widely used.

If the gear separation is too great, you mitigate it, instead of legitimizing tools that contribute turning one of the few relatively challenging aspects of the game (tanking) into a matter of just following the instructions on screen.
But of course Blizzard didn't mitigate the gear separation, know why? Because it makes them money, keeping people hooked on the game.

And that's the big problem with the challenge in every MMORPG. WoW included.
MMORPGs are based on people spending money on them on a continuated base. Many, faced with content that they cannot overcome easily, simply quit and stop paying.

This was the main reason that killed warhammer online. The game was massively based on faction-related PvP, and people that found that their faction couldn't overcome the opposition simply quit. Then the opposite faction found themselves without people to play against, and quit out of boredom. Then the first faction started dominating because more people quit on the second because of boredom, triggering more ragequits, in an endless loop of ragequitting.

This is why it's in any MMORPG company's best interest to keep content relatively unchallenging. Between MMORPG players, people that want an actual challenge are much less than those that just want to "be the hero". WoW is no exception, and if you think that it's any more challenging than the average of other MMORPGs, you kid yourself.
Some encounters in WoW have a relatively decent level of challenge, like the twin emperors for instance, but more or less every MMORPG has it's ration of those, some high tier raids in Age of Conan for instance (at least before funcom dumbed down the combo mechanics), Pretty much every COP encounter in FFXI, most Tomb Kings bosses in Warhammer online (Mythic really went on the cruel side with those, erroneously thinking that people WANTED a challenge, just triggering more ragequits instead). There are a few in every MMORPG out there. And mind you, I say more challenging than the average, but they're still fairly unchallenging compared to other genres.

By the way, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I enjoy relaxed gameplay quite often and you won't ever be able to quote me saying that WoW's problem is that it's easy (while I believe it is, that's not the problem, besides the fact that it's extreme easyness during the leveling up process tends to attract a crowd I don't like to play with), and just go to other games (racing simulators, flight simulators, strategy games and so forth) when I want challenging content.

PS:My facts are always verifiable. Some just don't like to hear them, and prefer to deny.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

i would read a book if i want great story, there are alot of games out there with a very great storylines, but no one really reads them because most just dont care about the story and spam enters, for myself, i play games to enjoy the gameplay and nice story is just a plus.

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The fact that you don't enjoy or prefer something doesn't mean everyone doesn't, or even the majority. Most final fantasy players enjoy storylines, that's why they play FF in the first place, and that's obviously one of the main "rewards" a final fantasy game does and should offer.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The fact that you don't enjoy or prefer something doesn't mean everyone doesn't, or even the majority. Most final fantasy players enjoy storylines, that's why they play FF in the first place, and that's obviously one of the main "rewards" a final fantasy game does and should offer.

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Not to get involved further involved in this argument, but basically this.

In fact, many Final Fantasy fans would say that if you're not playing an FF game for the story, then you're doing it wrong.

Not to say the game shouldn't have any other saving graces, especially for the sake of replayability, but Final Fantasy has always(well, save the NES versions) had very character-focused narratives.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Not to get involved further involved in this argument, but basically this.

In fact, many Final Fantasy fans would say that if you're not playing an FF game for the story, then you're doing it wrong.

Not to say the game shouldn't have any other saving graces, especially for the sake of replayability, but Final Fantasy has always(well, save the NES versions) had very character-focused narratives.

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Which is, by the way, one of my main gripes about FFXIV. WHile the BACKstory has a lot of potential (for sure much more of that half-baked, half-copied childish and fruity excuse for a fantasy world that's Azeroth), the story we've seen so far just scratches the very surface, doesn't even get near putting the player in deep contact with the "villains" (the garlean empire, let alone the dragons). Basically it gives the impression that we're just playing a prologue, and unfortunately that's not enough to support a Final Fantasy game.

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The fact that you don't enjoy or prefer something doesn't mean everyone doesn't, or even the majority. Most final fantasy players enjoy storylines, that's why they play FF in the first place, and that's obviously one of the main "rewards" a final fantasy game does and should offer.

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i am a FF players, i enjoys stories, i dont spam enter buttons during dialogue, and did all 3 cities missions.

but, do tell me why are alot of FF fans out there doesnt play XI.
offering only storyline isnt really a good idea on a game with MMO genre.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

i am a FF players, i enjoys stories, i dont spam enter buttons during dialogue, and did all 3 cities missions.

but, do tell me why are alot of FF fans out there doesnt play XI.
offering only storyline isnt really a good idea on a game with MMO genre.

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No one ever said that they should give ONLY storyline. But it is a major element for many.

Well if story is the main focus of ff's. Then WoW is a better representation of FF than FFxiv.

In most FF title, less so in the most recent, Every town or new area has its own storyline that conjoins with the mian plot. The story leads you to the next area. There may be a main plot in FFXIV but it only shows up every 10-15 levels for a moment and then disappears.

There should be side quest in each new leveling area that advance the Main plot and also show how that area is uniquely effected.

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

Well if story is the main focus of ff's. Then WoW is a better representation of FF than FFxiv.
In most FF title, less so in the most recent, Every town or new area has its own storyline that conjoins with the mian plot. The story leads you to the next area. There may be a main plot in FFXIV but it only shows up every 10-15 levels for a moment and then disappears.
There should be side quest in each new leveling area that advance the Main plot and also show how that area is uniquely effected.

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While FFXIV is (for now) not a good example of what a FF story should be, wow is most definitely not a better example. Having a story doesn't mean having a good story. WoW's storylines are a half baked hybrid between a child-friendly version of warhammer, an improbable glorification of utter emotive instability and the most trite and fruity comedic relief one could imagine.
When I played WoW I found myself cringing at basically every quest that involved story-based elements.

Quality > quantity. Blizzard needs to replace their writing team with some actually creative writers, able to actually inventing a story and it's setting, instead of just doing a patchwork of previous fantasy settings and pop culture.

My comment was meant to have a bit of irony to it. :p The idea is that at least the story line is present, somewhat dynamic as each area has its own story going on, and draws you through the game.

wow might be for me the greatest mystery in the history of gaming.
i ve never seen a game that sucks so hard to have such great success.... well mb except wii or... anw u get the point :)

honestly WoW lost its challenge with vent and the 20+ addon ppl use. Sorry using outside sources to "cheat" your way through events is asinine. Sorry I know addon don't play the game for ya physically, but it does when you have signals for stuff you should learn about.

And once you do stuff 20 times it does become easier. Your more prone to what happens when. Sorry WoW ppl don't learn how to win. They learn what Addons to use and scream on vent.

I personly found WoW easy. Since most of the dungeons didn't have a level cap, a high lvl can drag you through it. I'm sorry where is the challenge? TBH I think Zelda ocarina of time is more challenging then WoW. Least that game makes you think. WoW from my play time not so much.

Why most ppl find ffxi challenging? exp loss on death. So you can easily die so much you need to stop to relevel just to enter the location. Also there are road blocks while leveling.

WoW rehashes stuff. Like how many times was onyxia revived? 3 times.

Nothing is wrong with WoW. I don't personally care for the game, but thats my opinion. The reason you get all these GTFO or Go back to WoW is because fanboys rarely have anything intelligent to say. The second you mention a game that is not the game the forums are dedicated to the floodgates of morons pop out of their basements. I have even seen people mention games like EQ2 of GW and get a "GTFO and go back to WoW response.

IMO square enix needs to look at every successful MMO out there and go ok "Ok is this worth implementing?" and "Can we implement it properly or expand upon it"...