Adressing the roots of the housing problem

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Players will be permitted to own only one private and one free company estate

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Owning a free company estate, how is it intended? The FC Master's account?

If master changes, the old Master can form a new FC and buy a plot?

If I am Master of a FC with the estate, can one of my alts be promoted to Master in another FC with already an estate?

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Originally Posted by illgot

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Biggest problem is the poor translation. I've seen so many debates on what "could" happen and theories that I've lost count now. WTB - better translation.
Don't see why they would lock large plots from private ownership though. Every size house has the same benefits, only difference is the amount of items you can have in and outside of the house. It would be stupid for them to make such a move and we'd probably see even more of an uproar of unfairness when people who do own one right now get to keep theirs.

From what been going around and I hope this one theory is right, is that the relocation system will be active at the time of patch dropping. It was in the live letter information:

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Q&A

Q: Can you relocate if you already own several free company estates?
A: Relocating and purchasing are processed differently, so you are able to relocate.

Q: If you already own an estate, would I be restricted in purchasing one on a different World?
A: The restrictions are not by data centers, but per Worlds. Characters on other Worlds will be able to purchase an estate.

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Unless they turn off relocating, it sounds to me like anyone who own a house right now can relocate. However, if you're theory is correct and they are now going to limit the large plots to FC, then to me they just went a step backwards big time.
I'm not going to get excited or disappoint just yet until we see the patch notes come live and hopefully find out the FULL detail of what their plan is for handling this. With all the broken translation, it hard to understand just what the heck they mean. There to many theories on what could happen. I still believe they may pop us with a lottery system of some sort, but I could be way off on that thought. Either way, it all going to come to light once that special site is posted.

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Further details will be announced on a special site which will be released later.

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My only true worry right now is we got all these people breaking off from their FC's and making baby FC's just to buy a house. If they don't slap a restriction against these newly made FC's, it just going to upset those who have been around the longest and still in need of a house. Not only that but as I said earlier, with servers like Balmung, once they do lift the personal buying restriction, there won't be any houses to buy.

There were no words about how much big the new plot can be. So far, you can relocate anywhere, paying what is missed from the full price if your previous plot was smaller or cheaper.

I don't see problems on relocation, one free slot continue to exists. Maybe smaller but still a free slot.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Owning a free company estate, how is it intended? The FC Master's account?

If master changes, the old Master can form a new FC and buy a plot?

If I am Master of a FC with the estate, can one of my alts be promoted to Master in another FC with already an estate?

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It's clarified a little later as enrollment in an fc, not just the master. So anyone that's in an FC that owns a house on a world, cannot buy further fc houses on any other character on that same world. However, unless unmentioned restrictions were put into place you can still have someone that doesn't meet the restriction with purchase rights snag a house for an fc or hand over the keys to an fc that has a house to someone that would otherwise be restricted.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Which trouble? They monopolized a resource and now we have to give them a reward for doing so?

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They went through the trouble of earning the gil, purchasing the properties, decorating them, and by giving them up will no longer have use of them. I can understand why you might want to see people who "monopolize a resource" as bad guys, but that's not really fair when the system itself was designed so that anyone with the resources could buy as many homes as they wanted. That was a mistake on SE's part.

Just taking those properties away without any compensation is obviously unfair and likely not on the table at all, so the next best thing is to give those grandfathered in some incentive to voluntarily release those properties. Expecting someone to just give something up without any sort of compensation is unrealistic and demonizing them for using the system exactly as it worked is entirely unfair.

So because these people played by the rules they should get screwed over? In many cases people with multiple houses are neither hoarders or flippers. These people in most cases use these houses on multiple characters and have different themes for different houses. The argument that SE does not expect alternate characters to be relevant or have the same privileges as the main character is a silly argument....the have a a price structure that allows you to pay a sub that lets you have up to eight characters.

So many of you have no clue and can't see past your own salt and spite. Yes the housing system is not optimal, no you should not punish those legitimate players playing by the rules.

All of this reminds me of what is going on in Israel and Palestine....that is working out great isn't it...

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

You underestimate my generosity to the people I care about... there is a reason I lose gil so quickly ( not mention the random strangers I have given 1mil too when they ask for teleport money or petty cash to buy new NPC gear. )... So no sorry I still I don't understand your backward reasoning. I didn't realize my helping friends and strangers was such a selfish act. I'm clearly a monster. :rolleyes:

We'll just leave it at that ( no point in going around in circles, since we will never see eye to eye ). Have a lovely day!

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It is not backwards reasoning. You are advocating something being taken away for a "want", not a "need". That is selfish.

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Originally Posted by Acilith

Not only are there not enough houses, there's not enough larger sized houses. So even if we did have the proper amount of wards, people would just be popping new wards forever wanting that largest possible plot. I think the only fix is instanced personal housing, maybe leave the wards for FCs.

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If they did some serious QoL changes for apartments (increased size or upgradeable to something at least comparable to a regular medium sized house, indoor gardening, indoor striking dummies) I would be all for moving to an apartment and letting an FC buy my personal one after it demolished. I'd have most of my furnishings, and I'd get back most of my gil. The difference would be negligible enough I wouldn't care.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

If they did some serious QoL changes for apartments (increased size or upgradeable to something at least comparable to a regular medium sized house, indoor gardening, indoor striking dummies) I would be all for moving to an apartment and letting an FC buy my personal one after it demolished. I'd have most of my furnishings, and I'd get back most of my gil. The difference would be negligible enough I wouldn't care.

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THIS!
They can just make an instanced balcony with say 10 items or something.
Only difference is you can't show off your house in the ward, wich is pointless anyways seeing as every ward is a ghosttown.
Make future wards FC only (maybe with only L and M houses but less to even out the stress it puts on the server). And I'm sure alot of people would gladly give up their house for an apartment without demolishion timer, so whoever wants to be tied to the sub can just get a normal house.

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Originally Posted by Beelhi

They can just make an instanced balcony with say 10 items or something.

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There was actually a winner from the furnishing design contest that had a brilliant idea for an indoor garden furnishing. If I remember correctly it would be approximately the size of an oriental bathtub and feature 6 or 8 plots you could plant things in. There was even koi fish and other things to make it decorative even without plants. That alone would work well enough for most people I reckon.

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Originally Posted by Beelhi

THIS!
They can just make an instanced balcony with say 10 items or something.

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They have absolutely zero foresight. There's an interview that was done with Yoshi (don't have time to track it down at this moment) where he says that the way they went about creating/instancing apartments wouldn't let them incorporate yards/balconies. Maybe that's something they can figure out whenever they get around to ironing out details for making medium and large upgrades for apartments, but... yeah. That's gonna be a good while yet.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

They have absolutely zero foresight. There's an interview that was done with Yoshi (don't have time to track it down at this moment) where he says that the way they went about creating/instancing apartments wouldn't let them incorporate yards/balconies. Maybe that's something they can figure out whenever they get around to ironing out details for making medium and large upgrades for apartments, but... yeah. That's gonna be a good while yet.

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Well no, given all the drama with new wards and new rules and such I would hardly expect such a change in the immediate future. However, Yoshida did mention they would look into upgrading/reworking the apartments after 4.2, so it's not entirely unreasonable to think they might revisit this within the next 2 or 3 patches.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

If they did some serious QoL changes for apartments (increased size or upgradeable to something at least comparable to a regular medium sized house, indoor gardening, indoor striking dummies) I would be all for moving to an apartment and letting an FC buy my personal one after it demolished. I'd have most of my furnishings, and I'd get back most of my gil. The difference would be negligible enough I wouldn't care.

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A cool large 2-story loft-type apt with some planting area and big windows would make many happy I bet.

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Originally Posted by Besame

A cool large 2-story loft-type apt with some planting area and big windows would make many happy I bet.

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Aye! You wouldn't even need to worry particularly about having vendors or anything since I think they're all right on hand in the lobby. So no trying to partition off space for them. Other than that, two stories approximately medium size is more than enough space for one. If they made it two mansion size stories that would be plenty of room for damn near anything you wanted!

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

There was actually a winner from the furnishing design contest that had a brilliant idea for an indoor garden furnishing. If I remember correctly it would be approximately the size of an oriental bathtub and feature 6 or 8 plots you could plant things in. There was even koi fish and other things to make it decorative even without plants. That alone would work well enough for most people I reckon.

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Where did you see this? I want to see! :D

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Originally Posted by MeridaQ

Where did you see this? I want to see! :D

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This is the link: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ccec8720f538c6
The one you're wanting to see is the Oriental Indoor Garden. It's about 3 or 4 clicks down the page. Personally I want to see everything from the winners list in the game! These folks made some sexy, sexy, stuff!

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

This is the link: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ccec8720f538c6
The one you're wanting to see is the Oriental Indoor Garden. It's about 3 or 4 clicks down the page. Personally I want to see everything from the winners list in the game! These folks made some sexy, sexy, stuff!

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Thank you so much! Looking at it now!

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Originally Posted by MeridaQ

Thank you so much! Looking at it now!

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Not a problem! Enjoy the goodness! :D

I would like a toilet, small sink and smaller pedestal tub. Tired of digging a hole outside then washing up in the pond to relieve myself...

I wish I understood why SE seems to be so against adding access to gardening, chocobo stables, and airships to people without houses. If they want to keep the ward system, it's the only way to keep things fair - essentially make it so that having a house is only for QoL/prestige.

Put a public stable in Bentbranch, airship hangar in Mor Dhona (or next to your squadron door) and greenhouse...somewhere. For aiships and greenhouses, maybe pay a fee to use them. This is a very elegant solution to the biggest problem with limited housing (content that you can't access because you don't have a house), it's been suggested hundreds of times, but they just won't do it.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

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They could allow people in apartments go outside to a personal "roof" which gives them access to a yard to train chocobo and use planting beds.

I'm not sure why they aren't focusing on instanced houses more than adding new wards.

That would work too, and as mentioned earlier, could give people a chance to use outdoor furnishings. They say instances would be too hard on the servers, but as others have pointed out, the ward system takes up a lot more space because it's always present. An instance is only generated when I access it. And all houses are technically instanced anyways. Ugh. It's so frustrating lol. Why can't they just come out and say they want housing to be scarce? The hand-wringing and "we're sorrys" is getting really old.

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Originally Posted by illgot

I'm not sure why they aren't focusing on instanced houses more than adding new wards.

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They said at one point that there were some very real memory/server issues with the instanced apartments that made setting those up not viable currently. I'm really, really, hoping that with the immediate backlash from 4.1 housing dealt with they'll actually follow through on Yoshida's promise to take a much longer and harder look at our apartments and try to solve that issue as well. Doing so would alleviate a great deal of stress and discontent on both sides of the equation I think.

I bought a crystal ball who tells the future!. Hear what it tells about patch 4.2:

The week after the patch is being released the new wards will be ALL AVAILABLE like patch 4.1! So get your alarm rd, coffee, and your spiritual objects! Yes, spiritual objects! Because you will need to use them for beating all the disconnect/connect problems and the most feared of all: The Log in BTN of Death!

After all this done and you get finally in, run! as your life depends on it, to maybe have a chance of finding an available plot. But hey, don't get too much excited yet! There is more!:

If you want to get a personal house (which is definitely not what people want in this game), you need to be patient bro... cause your time will only happen after all houses are gone. Yes! just after they are ALL GONE!.

SE finally listened to us! So lets thank them all and continue to pay our subscription at the end of each month like all the house owners :)

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Originally Posted by Elamys

I wish I understood why SE seems to be so against adding access to gardening, chocobo stables, and airships to people without houses. If they want to keep the ward system, it's the only way to keep things fair - essentially make it so that having a house is only for QoL/prestige.

Put a public stable in Bentbranch, airship hangar in Mor Dhona (or next to your squadron door) and greenhouse...somewhere. For aiships and greenhouses, maybe pay a fee to use them. This is a very elegant solution to the biggest problem with limited housing (content that you can't access because you don't have a house), it's been suggested hundreds of times, but they just won't do it.

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If you have an apartment, then you have access to chocobo stables. Every apartment building has a stable in front of it for the people that own apartments there.

A second idea for airships out in the world would be to lock it behind ixal beast tribes, then give you access to it in N Shroud or Ul'dah. Or maybe after you hit 60, you could access them in Foundation (since you can access airships there to do Diadem).

Not sure where a good place for greenhouses would be. Probably somewhere in The Black Shroud or La Noscea, though I can't think of how to make it fit with lore off-hand. Though I can think of a couple of farms in lower level zones for both areas.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

They said at one point that there were some very real memory/server issues with the instanced apartments that made setting those up not viable currently. I'm really, really, hoping that with the immediate backlash from 4.1 housing dealt with they'll actually follow through on Yoshida's promise to take a much longer and harder look at our apartments and try to solve that issue as well. Doing so would alleviate a great deal of stress and discontent on both sides of the equation I think.

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I totally missed them saying that. I know that before apartments launched it had seemed like there were going to be up to 512 apartments per building. Then they let us know the buildings would release with 90 apartments, but Yoshida said it would be a simple thing for them to add more if needed, and they could expand them up to 256 or 512 apartments per building (I forget which and honestly don't feel like searching for the quote atm). I know he had said something about them looking into possibly expanding apartments after 4.2, but I know they've looked into lots of stuff in the past and never told us anything else about it.

Personally I'd love for them to look into letting us upgrade the inside of our house. Example, you already own a small house, instead of trying to relocate to a dream plot that's larger, pay x amount of gil (maybe like 80% of plot price or something) and let people upgrade the inside to the size of a medium or large plot. I'd be fine with a tiny yard as long as I had more space inside my house. If I can breathe underwater and change the appearance of my clothes based on magic, why can't we change the inside of a house?

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Originally Posted by MizArai

If you have an apartment, then you have access to chocobo stables. Every apartment building has a stable in front of it for the people that own apartments there.

A second idea for airships out in the world would be to lock it behind ixal beast tribes, then give you access to it in N Shroud or Ul'dah. Or maybe after you hit 60, you could access them in Foundation (since you can access airships there to do Diadem).

Not sure where a good place for greenhouses would be. Probably somewhere in The Black Shroud or La Noscea, though I can't think of how to make it fit with lore off-hand. Though I can think of a couple of farms in lower level zones for both areas.

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while I get it's an "lol balmung" issue, there aren't any apartments free here, so not everyone can access even stables here.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

while I get it's an "lol balmung" issue, there aren't any apartments free here, so not everyone can access even stables here.

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To the best of my knowledge I think Balmung is the only one where all the apartments are sold out (is that still the case if people are slowly moving off?)

Although SE have said they can increase the apartment amounts, they probably don't want to as it'd be across all worlds (same settings for every server), so other servers that still have loads of room would have even more!

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Originally Posted by Elamys

while I get it's an "lol balmung" issue, there aren't any apartments free here, so not everyone can access even stables here.

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With 4.2 there will be 4320 more apartments added when they add the 6 more wards. I'm hoping that will help Balmung. I remember hearing about how the apartments sold out the day they became available. Though even then, you have to be 50 and all that mess before you can get an apartment, which means if someone is starting out and part of an FC with no house (or not part of any FC), they wouldn't have access to chocobo stables until they could buy an apartment, so having a public one available earlier (even if it cost gil to use) might be a good option for them to think about. Maybe add an option to the chocobo porter in the main cities to have them look after your chocobo and you give them like 50 gil and some sort of treat for your chocobo. Just trying to think of ideas off the top of my head. You're right, they could come up with something.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

To the best of my knowledge I think Balmung is the only one where all the apartments are sold out (is that still the case if people are slowly moving off?)

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I was pretty sure they sold out on Gilgamesh too, though that's probably not the case anymore with so many transfers off that world.

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Originally Posted by MizArai

With 4.2 there will be 4320 more apartments added when they add the 6 more wards.

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GOOD POINT! I hadn't thought of that :D

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

GOOD POINT! I hadn't thought of that :D

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Yeah, everyone is focused on how many houses will be available, and how only FCs or people who already own a home will have access to them. I think it's been easy to forget about the option of apartments (probably because there are plenty still available on most servers).

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Originally Posted by MizArai

Not sure where a good place for greenhouses would be. Probably somewhere in The Black Shroud or La Noscea, though I can't think of how to make it fit with lore off-hand. Though I can think of a couple of farms in lower level zones for both areas.

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I'd vote for the botanists guild in Gridania for that. A new venture from the guildmaster there perhaps, and lock it behind lvl 50 or 60 botany perhaps so you'd have a legitimate reason to be part of the action.

I like how they say that they will make it more fair and then proceeds to shit on those of us who doesn't have a house yet.
I am all for the FC's getting a chance to get a house, but how is it fair that the people who have a personal house already, can relocate to one in the new wards but people who don't have one can't even buy one.
So we will have to sit around and watch as every house is bought right in front of us and the chance for a house in for instance shirogane is pretty much non existent. If any houses are left at all we get to fight over the scraps.
I was even willing to pay real money to be able to buy the house that I want if that was an option, but to think that THIS is what they came up with and that they call it "fair" HAH!

I will still try to get a house but when it fails, and it very likely will, I will be one of the first to complain about it here.

So to me patch 4.2 might as well be called "F... You Homeless People!"

Based on what I've seen from this thread so far, I'd have to say the dev's next steps in housing and QoL should be:
- Look at expanding apartment size and desirability
- Potentially look at increasing number of apartments (presuming there's still congestion on some servers)
- Look at adding housing related features to the world at large. In particular, chocobo stables in at least the starting cities, and greenhouses in the botanist's guild (or something similar)

For the expedition airships, I realize FCs with houses invest a lot of time, effort, energy, and money into their ships. So I would propose that individuals may get the opportunity to create ONE personal airship/submarine that they can send out and it has a smaller payload. So the materials aren't locked, but FCs with their greater resources still have the advantage.

Does that about summarize what we've said so far in terms of potential solutions?

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

To the best of my knowledge I think Balmung is the only one where all the apartments are sold out (is that still the case if people are slowly moving off?)

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Yes, it's still an issue unfortunately. Right after transfers became available there were a lot popping up but that's since stopped.

In a way, it makes sense that Balmung is struggling the most with housing - we are, for all intents and purposes, the RP server, and there's nothing more desirable to an RPer in an MMO than a setting you can tailor to your exact needs and wants for the story. (Though now Mateus has a good knot of RPers on it to my understanding)

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Originally Posted by Elamys

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Apartments open up slowly yes but still open up. I saw one open two days ago but then it was nabbed ^^ Also just yesterday I found a empty small plot on the lav beds (thought i'd never see that) So..I guess that happens as well on Balmung its just extremely rare.

and also I agree, the housing problem is very a struggle especially when some people who RP with multiple alts think they need a house for each character to "tell their story" Eye roll I have two more alts on Balmung and they do not own a apartment nor would i ever desire to own another home on them either. Just wish SE could let alts be added to our house we already have.

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Originally Posted by RayneLittlewinkle

Just wish SE could let alts be added to our house we already have.

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It's coming. They promised us in the last live letter that would be a thing due to the new housing restrictions. I expect that will implement before the next patch, or by the next patch at the latest.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

It's coming. They promised us in the last live letter that would be a thing due to the new housing restrictions. I expect that will implement before the next patch, or by the next patch at the latest.

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When did they say that? I never saw that in any translation that I read. I know Yoshida talked about wanting to make it happen in the past, but I've never heard if they actually looked into it or if it was just on the board as something to do in the future.

If it's any compensation Wrasha, I am not relocating because I don't want to have to redeco my whole house hehe. Relocation however, doesn't do anything as far as taking another spot count but rather moving from one neighborhood to another you desire leaving your vacated spot open for another. People moving from the less desirable Goblet or to a plot you like better due to scenery does make it tough if you want to settle there but at least you might be able to grab a house. The only up side I can really see is a prettier area outside because nobody spends a lot of time outside anyway. As for the FCs getting a spot, well, right now on voice chat and in other FCs, they already began preparations enabling people to be the first to move by making themselves a FC of their own just in case. Should be real interesting come patch day *popcorn*.

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Originally Posted by Wrasha

I like how they say that they will make it more fair and then proceeds to shit on those of us who doesn't have a house yet.
I am all for the FC's getting a chance to get a house, but how is it fair that the people who have a personal house already, can relocate to one in the new wards but people who don't have one can't even buy one.
So we will have to sit around and watch as every house is bought right in front of us and the chance for a house in for instance shirogane is pretty much non existent.

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I don't know about your server but on Odin 80-85% of the houses are taken by players, not FC's, so they deserve those houses. Also, Only FC's can fill up the new plots, personal houses can only MOVE meaning they free up the spot they move from, wich in turn can only be bought up by FC's.